Baby showers for pregnant teens?

[rayne89]

After all, there is a difference between forgiving a person and tolerating sins. Should a person be treated like everyone else after they have been forgiven?
For example, I would NEVER marry a man who fathered a child out of wedlock. I don’t care how young or stupid he was when he did it, or if he repented.

Should a person be treated like everyone else after they have been forgiven? Hmm…let’s see some of Jesus’ closest friends were tax collectors and prostitutes. So yes those with visible sins should get treated like the rest of us sinners.
There is no such thing as an unforgivable sin in God’s eyes and we all should get down on our knees and praise God for that because none of us are deserving.

14. If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you.
15. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions.

1. The tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to listen to him,
2. but the Pharisees and scribes began to complain, saying, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."

 

[Kendy]

Okay, so how about if I can think of a way to attend such a shower while making it publicly known what I believe about the situation from a moral perspective?

There is a time and place for everything and trying to make your point about your moral perspective might do more to alienate the young woman and not to mention make you look like a jack-*** during that particular time. No one is going to feel loved if someone decides to disrupt their baby shower with condemnation or just shun them. The time to nurture the seed of chastity is after you have gained the person’s trust by treating them with kindness and dignity.

In fact, very rarely is it helpful to start preaching to people. I know that from being on both ends of it. Outside of public forums, evangelization takes place through gentle nudges with people who feel safe with us.
Kendy

 

[mosher]

It is very relevant. You have not taking the church’s position.

It is a matter of Church Law founded in the Natural Moral Law that one cannot participate or formally approve of public scandal. So, it is most definitely a matter of the position of the Church in the area of public scandal and our response to it. Nothing in the Natural Moral Law can be subverted - ends never justify means.

Supporting unmarried women is apathetic?

No. Supporting scandal is apathetic.

The only people who will be scandalized are those who would rather see the young woman ostracized. No one doubts that the church condemns pre-marital sex.

I have yet to see a single person here want a young women in this case to be ostracized. Rather, all I see is an application of charity that does not invite public scandal.

 

[gmarie21]

It is a matter of Church Law founded in the Natural Moral Law that one cannot participate or formally approve of public scandal. So, it is most definitely a matter of the position of the Church in the area of public scandal and our response to it. Nothing in the Natural Moral Law can be subverted - ends never justify means.

Well, then the priest and deacon who were involved in my daughter’s batism were “condoning” my forgiven sin. When she was baptized I was living with my daughter’s father who was still legally married. They knew that. They’re extremely orthodox (one even taught at a pontifical institution) but did believe in celebrating a new life, not punishing that life for the FORGIVEN sins of their parents.

 

[Kendy]

It is a matter of Church Law founded in the Natural Moral Law that one cannot participate or formally approve of public scandal. So, it is most definitely a matter of the position of the Church in the area of public scandal and our response to it. Nothing in the Natural Moral Law can be subverted - ends never justify means.

No. Supporting scandal is apathetic.

I have yet to see a single person here want a young women in this case to be ostracized. Rather, all I see is an application of charity that does not invite public scandal.

Who will be scandalized? Whose faith will be damaged by a baby shower. I had a cousin who had a baby shower for a baby born out of wedlock, there was no doubt in her mind that we didn’t think this was a good thing. It didn’t even need to be said.

Kendy

Kendy

 

[gmarie21]

Who will be scandalized? Whose faith will be damaged by a baby shower. I had a cousin who had a baby shower for a baby born out of wedlock, there was no doubt in her mind that we didn’t think this was a good thing. It didn’t even need to be said.

Kendy

Kendy

I second your statement. In my case, I KNEW I was wrong (why do you think I went to confession and cried and cried and cried when talking to my priest so thankful for the absolution.

As for teens’ friends attending a baby shower…well, I’ve been invited to a student’s baby shower (when I was a teacher) and could not attend. Let me tell you, her friends all knew the hardship that comes with being pregnant at such a young age as well as the decision to place the child for adoption or to raise the child. The only friends of a pregnant teen that may be “inspired” to also become pregnant are the ones who have so little love in their lives that they think a baby will “have” to love them (since no one else does, in their minds, that is). Justifying a lack of compassion with the disguise of not causing “self perceived” scandal is just very ignorant in my opinion (then again, I’m coming from the point of view of an adoptee and also a single mother who has lost many cousins to abortion).

 

[jmcrae]

A friend of mine’s daughter got pregnant, and she invited me to come to the baby shower. It would not even have occurred to me not to go - I certainly didn’t see it as “condoning” the circumstances of the birth, but rather, to celebrate the coming of a new life into the world, and a grandchild for my friend. I brought a nice pile of toys with me, and a card that said “Congratulations on your new baby!”

When I got there, I helped make the salad, said nice things to everyone, invited the pregnant girl and her boyfriend to come to Mass with me on Sundays, and showed her and the boyfriend how to get in touch with the baptism prep people.

They are now married, active in the Church, I got to attend the baptism shortly after they were married (I didn’t go to the wedding), and their baby just started attending Children’s Liturgy of the Word a couple of weeks ago - and I think she’s pregnant again.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Should a person be treated like everyone else after they have been forgiven? Hmm…let’s see some of Jesus’ closest friends were tax collectors and prostitutes. So yes those with visible sins should get treated like the rest of us sinners.
There is no such thing as an unforgivable sin in God’s eyes and we all should get down on our knees and praise God for that because none of us are deserving.

14. If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you.
15. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions.

1. The tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to listen to him,
2. but the Pharisees and scribes began to complain, saying, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."

Now that I’m in a much better mood, I’m going to respond to the criticisms of my post. (When I get into bad moods, I become bitter, and my speech and writing become particularly acerbic. )
I’ll admit my writing was bitter, but I do stand by what I wrote, for a very important reason.
I was talking about Choosing a HUSBAND, not how to treat other Christians. Christ did command us to forgive everyone, but he didn’t command us to marry everyone.
Someone asked if I really believe if there is such a thing as an unforgivable sin. Yes I do, when it comes to picking a lifetime mate, and so do most other people. In France, bishops are investigating whether or not Jaques Fesch, an adulterer who stole300,000 francs from a shop, pistol-whipped the owner to death, and shot a policeman three times in the heart. Now, he may very well be a saint (he converted in prison) but how many of us would rejoyce if our friend became engaged to him? How many of us would want our daughter to marry a man who spent 10 years in jail for embezzlement?
Now, we might say, “but fathering a child out of wedlock is not as serious as the theft or murder.” But isn’t sin still sin? Our culture teaches us to think that this is not a big deal, but God says otherwise.
Even sin aside, an unmarried man with a child has responsibillities to his child and to the mother that will inevitably place tremendous stress on a marriage. Isn’t marriage stressful enough without compounding it with the stress of other women and children?
The post I’m responding to seems to apply that we should treat repentant sinners no differently than anyone else. If that’s the case, then we need to release every convicted murderer and child molester from jail, as long as they repent. Why treat them differently than everyone else by keeping them behind bars?
Someone pointed out that people often have hidden sins, and not just the obvious ones. That’s why, as Ben Franklin said, “Keep your eyes wide open before marriage, and half shut afterwards.” If you’re Catholic, you only get one chance to marry, unless your husband dies. It makes sense to go for the one who is holy AND has less baggage.
Every person, Catholic or not, has a list of non-negotiables for a future spouse. (For women, one of the biggest ones is no smoking.) One of mine is that he cannot have a child out of wedlock. He doesn’t have to be a virgin, just no kids.

 

[rayne89]

I]Someone asked if I really believe if there is such a thing as an unforgivable sin. Yes I do, when it comes to picking a lifetime mate, and so do most other people.

If you mean you have certain criteria for choosing a lifemate that’s fine but that is not unforgiveness. I couldn’t marry a man who was arrogant and full of himself but that has nothing to do with unforgiveness.

He doesn’t have to be a virgin, just no kids.

Except the sin isn’t in being a father it’s in having sex outside of marriage as so is using artificial birth control and abortion. Having a child is not a sin.

I understand some people not being comfortable getting involved with someone whose life is complicated by being a father. Because it is more difficult and can be more stressful.But you don’t have the right to look down your nose at people and deem them less worthy of forgiveness.

As far as prisoners in jail-that has nothing to do with forgiveness. People in jail commited crimes and the government has the right and duty to protect it’s citizens and it also has the right to make a judgement and punish those that break the law.

With people and their personal sins such sex outside of marriage passing judgement and punishment is up to God (and to some degree the church)not me or you.

10. "Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector.
11. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous--or even like this tax collector. 12. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' 13. But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, O God, be merciful to me a sinner.'

 

[rayne89]

Now, we might say, “but fathering a child out of wedlock is not as serious as the theft or murder.” But isn’t sin still sin?

NO fathering a child is not a sin, conceiving a child in NOT a sin. Sex outside of marriage is a sin, artificial birth control is a sin, abortion is a sin but bringing a life into the world is not a sin. Please find me the verse in scripture or the line in the Catechism that says the conception of a child is a sin.

 

[Kendy]

Now that I’m in a much better mood, I’m going to respond to the criticisms of my post. (When I get into bad moods, I become bitter, and my speech and writing become particularly acerbic. )
I’ll admit my writing was bitter, but I do stand by what I wrote, for a very important reason.
I was talking about Choosing a HUSBAND, not how to treat other Christians. Christ did command us to forgive everyone, but he didn’t command us to marry everyone.
Someone asked if I really believe if there is such a thing as an unforgivable sin. Yes I do, when it comes to picking a lifetime mate, and so do most other people. In France, bishops are investigating whether or not Jaques Fesch, an adulterer who stole300,000 francs from a shop, pistol-whipped the owner to death, and shot a policeman three times in the heart. Now, he may very well be a saint (he converted in prison) but how many of us would rejoyce if our friend became engaged to him? How many of us would want our daughter to marry a man who spent 10 years in jail for embezzlement?
Now, we might say, “but fathering a child out of wedlock is not as serious as the theft or murder.” But isn’t sin still sin? Our culture teaches us to think that this is not a big deal, but God says otherwise.
Even sin aside, an unmarried man with a child has responsibillities to his child and to the mother that will inevitably place tremendous stress on a marriage. Isn’t marriage stressful enough without compounding it with the stress of other women and children?
The post I’m responding to seems to apply that we should treat repentant sinners no differently than anyone else. If that’s the case, then we need to release every convicted murderer and child molester from jail, as long as they repent. Why treat them differently than everyone else by keeping them behind bars?
Someone pointed out that people often have hidden sins, and not just the obvious ones. That’s why, as Ben Franklin said, “Keep your eyes wide open before marriage, and half shut afterwards.” If you’re Catholic, you only get one chance to marry, unless your husband dies. It makes sense to go for the one who is holy AND has less baggage.
Every person, Catholic or not, has a list of non-negotiables for a future spouse. (For women, one of the biggest ones is no smoking.) One of mine is that he cannot have a child out of wedlock. He doesn’t have to be a virgin, just no kids.

You are certainly entitled to marry whoever you like. However, choosing someone to be pope after he betrayed is certainly as important as choosing a husband.

As for myself, because I have been blessed with a pretty sinful past, I cannot be so picky. A person who is repentent and in the case of a crime has paid their debt to society should be treated as if it never happened; that includes in the case of having a child out of wedlock.

Here’s a real life example, there was a homeless man on the street begging nad someone walked passed him and told him get a job. He responded, “No one will hire me; I have three felonies.” And of course, he’s right. No matter how much he repents and wants to change, society will never forgive him; and of course, this puts him in the position of having to beg or resort to crime to support himself. I wonder how many criminals could truly reform and have productive lives if we as a society really forgave them.

Kendy

 

[deb1]

Valiant Lucy, You certainly have the right to decide for yourself who to marry. Yes, a man with a child, has a whole host of complicated issues for you to sort through. so, I understand reluctance on your part to get involved with such a man…

But I am just pointing out a slightly different view from yours. I’m not saying that your decision is right or wrong.

Some of us who led less then pure lifes had to reach a point in which we humbled ourselves before God. That involved a lot of soul searching and regret. FOr some people this process makes them not only better Christians but wiser people overall.

My hubby, for instance, was a military man when I met him. He had slept with several women. As a teenager he had done drugs and led a wild life. When I met him, he was turning his life around.

He is one of the sweetest, most gentle men that you would meet. He helps others and is active in church. I honestly get treated like a queen by this man. And our children have the best dad in the world. But he is very protective of our kids because of his past.

I think that his past and the process of becoming a Christian assisted him in being such a wonderful man.

This doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be wary of getting involved with such a man. I am only suggesting that you don’t take such a hard stance and be open to the fact that people can change.

 

[mosher]

Well, then the priest and deacon who were involved in my daughter’s batism were “condoning” my forgiven sin. When she was baptized I was living with my daughter’s father who was still legally married. They knew that. They’re extremely orthodox (one even taught at a pontifical institution) but did believe in celebrating a new life, not punishing that life for the FORGIVEN sins of their parents.

Completely different. The Child cannot be denied the Sacrament in most cases because of the faithlessness of the parents. As long as parents promise to raise the child in the faith then the child as a right to the sacrament. A baby shower is not a right.

Who will be scandalized? Whose faith will be damaged by a baby shower. I had a cousin who had a baby shower for a baby born out of wedlock, there was no doubt in her mind that we didn’t think this was a good thing. It didn’t even need to be said.

I am wondering you have actually read the posts that have been made through the course of this discussion. This has been the very point of the disagreement.

There are those of us that feel that a baby shower in this case is at least a tacit approval of immoral behavior - and I for one am scandalized by it. The answer to your question is found in all the previous posts made here by those who feel as I do.

 

[maria29]

After reading all these posts i had to respond from the adoptee’s point of view…my birth mother had me when she 13 or 14 years old and being the late 70’s and in texas she was not able to keep me…never for a moment have i been resentful of that, in fact i think it shows a true love and willingness to sacrifice for your child.

Through catholic charities i was adopted but 2 loving parents and giving a strong family and values. I know so many people who can’t have children and tell me how hard it is to adopt an infant in the US. I’m surprised that more teens don’t give their babies up for adoption, but i think that if many teens saw it an act of love especially if they cannot care for the child on their own.

My adoption was not an open one, and i have always left it in St. Anthony’s hands if she wants to find me catholic charities has my info. As for an open adoption, i would think that would be hard but i suppose it depends on the family.

as for attending a shower for a pregnant teen i guess it depends on the situation and who would be there. I am curious why adoption seems to have this big “stigmata” about it in regards to pregnant teens? IT seems that many people feel that its okay for child to raise another child.

 

[boppaid]

I am curious why adoption seems to have this big “stigmata” about it in regards to pregnant teens? IT seems that many people feel that its okay for child to raise another child.

I don’t think there’s a stigma against adopting out. I think people are having problems with the idea of forcing someone to give up their child.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Completely different. The Child cannot be denied the Sacrament in most cases because of the faithlessness of the parents. As long as parents promise to raise the child in the faith then the child as a right to the sacrament. A baby shower is not a right.

I am wondering you have actually read the posts that have been made through the course of this discussion. This has been the very point of the disagreement.

There are those of us that feel that a baby shower in this case is at least a tacit approval of immoral behavior - and I for one am scandalized by it. The answer to your question is found in all the previous posts made here by those who feel as I do.

Listen, there are neighborhoods where you can’t cross the street without someone taking scandal at it. There is obviously a large segment of Catholics who do not equate participating at a baby shower with a public vote in favor of the act that brought about the conception. Of those who do, many would not think a gift of any kind in recognition of the blessed event is in order. (And let’s point out that gifts are gifts, too, and not rights.)

If you would feel that you can’t join in the joy of a celebration, then it is OK to stay home. If you still feel moved to give a gift just becuase the person is in a tough place, I think that is pretty nice. I don’t think it is nice to make a big public deal out of why you aren’t participating, but you don’t seem to be suggesting that.

If you had your marriage annulled and your ex is re-marrying and you are invited, you don’t have to go, scandal or not.

If you are invited to a party and the hosts were idiots at your last party–or theirs, for that matter–you don’t have to go.

Let us keep in mind, for a minute, that a great many people miss baby showers and send the gift on another day because they just can’t make it to the shower. It happens.

This isn’t as public as a wedding. It is intimate, though. Everyone who comes really should be totally comfortable with coming.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Listen, there are neighborhoods where you can’t cross the street without someone taking scandal at it. There is obviously a large segment of Catholics who do not equate participating at a baby shower with a public vote in favor of the act that brought about the conception. Of those who do, many would not think a gift of any kind in recognition of the blessed event is in order. (And let’s point out that gifts are gifts, too, and not rights.)

If you would feel that you can’t join in the joy of a celebration, then it is OK to stay home. If you still feel moved to give a gift just becuase the person is in a tough place, I think that is pretty nice. I don’t think it is nice to make a big public deal out of why you aren’t participating, but you don’t seem to be suggesting that.

If you had your marriage annulled and your ex is re-marrying and you are invited, you don’t have to go, scandal or not.

If you are invited to a party and the hosts were idiots at your last party–or theirs, for that matter–you don’t have to go.

Let us keep in mind, for a minute, that a great many people miss baby showers and send the gift on another day because they just can’t make it to the shower. It happens.

This isn’t as public as a wedding. It is intimate, though. Everyone who comes really should be totally comfortable with coming.

Living where I do, with a wife who is Assistant Director of Nursing at a local nursing home, we participate in such showeres fairly often.

We can’t prevent the young girls from having sex (they never ask for permission), but we can say, “Thank you for not killing your baby. Let us help you a bit in these first difficult days.”

 

[McKevin]

How do you feel about the family of a unmarried pregnant teen giving their daughter/neice a baby shower?
Would you attend such a baby shower?

Absolutely. Love the sinner, but not the sin. Anything less could be equated to casting stones.

 

[Kendy]

Completely different. The Child cannot be denied the Sacrament in most cases because of the faithlessness of the parents. As long as parents promise to raise the child in the faith then the child as a right to the sacrament. A baby shower is not a right.

I am wondering you have actually read the posts that have been made through the course of this discussion. This has been the very point of the disagreement.

There are those of us that feel that a baby shower in this case is at least a tacit approval of immoral behavior - and I for one am scandalized by it. The answer to your question is found in all the previous posts made here by those who feel as I do.

Between a young woman feel ostracized and you feeling scandalized, I choose the latter.

Kendy

 

[kim3260]

I can not believe some things I’m reading here.:bigyikes: Where is the compassion? Yes the girl has Sinned but who are we to judge, perhaps this young lady already Confessed her Sin. How do we know otherwise? She is bring a new life into this world.
I also known of many Brides getting married (Catholic and other Religions) in a Church and wearing pure white who were definately not virgins, I knew one who actually had abortion, while engaged, not Catholic but none the less she had the nerve to wear white 2 months later.
Casting stones at someone who chooses life is sending the wrong message. As far as a shower goes why not? The child will need many items and this is a great way to help her out.

Not only would I give a gift, I would also offer any help I can.