But then again both could objectively be a sin. To cause a person to be ostracized and to cause another scandal is both a serious matter. I think that there needs to be a third way that either stops or at least mitigates both.Between a young woman feel ostracized and you feeling scandalized, I choose the latter.
Kendy
Is that really considered scandelous or did I read that wrong?The church does deal with scandal. I could not have a mass when I got married to my husband because he was not catholic.I had a catholic service.
Do I get a party when I return to my spouse to reconstruct the marriage after having been unfaithful? …and invite all the family, friends and coworkers who were affected and privy to this sinful behavior choice to celebrate my choice for marriage fidelity? How about first some public words of repentence and show of humility that leave no room for misinterpretation and scandal before celebrating my return? Did not the prodigal son do as much?Of course I would attend - I would probably even hold a shower myself. However the child came about, the parent- however young and no matter the marital status- should be praised for choosing LIFE. How often do we say “choose life - not abortion” yet in the same breath we turn around and judge another for making the right choice?
Anne
Along the same logic, does one who purposefully missed mass on Sunday arrive the following Sunday and publically repent of the sin of intentionally missing mass the previous Sunday? Missing mass intentionally is just as serious as sex outside of marriage.Do I get a party when I return to my spouse to reconstruct the marriage after having been unfaithful? …and invite all the family, friends and coworkers who were affected and privy to this sinful behavior choice to celebrate my choice for marriage fidelity? How about first some public words of repentence and show of humility that leave no room for misinterpretation and scandal before celebrating my return? Did not the prodigal son do as much?
Each case needs to be assessed individually …and yes, public sin and no evidence of repentence is scandalous to those who know this person intimately, as well as those who may see this as "permission’ to sin in a like manner (as being consequence free).Along the same logic, does one who purposefully missed mass on Sunday arrive the following Sunday and publically repent of the sin of intentionally missing mass the previous Sunday? Missing mass intentionally is just as serious as sex outside of marriage.
The point I’m making is that different sins (public or private) are to be addressed differently by the public. To claim to be pro-life and then basically emotionally slap the girl who chooses life in the face is frankly, extremely anti-prolife. Prolife does not start nor end at the life of the child. The commandment of Thou Shalt Not Kill isn’t just about physical murder, but about spiritual and emotionally abusive behavior. If you have never been in an unwed pregnancy, then you have NO idea how much pain and self-inflicted emotional and spiritual abuse the unwed pregnant mother is going through. To be a family member or dear friend of one and show your disgust for her past behavior is EXTREMELY unchristian. And don’t think by missing a shower that you’re not showing your disgust. Your whole persona, facial expressions and body language speak volumes of disgust more than words (I’m not saying you in particular, but for those who are disgusted by the sin). I have family who were disgusted but tried to put on the “I still love you face”. Believe me, EVERYONE can see right through them, especially the unwed pregnant woman.
Wouldn’t an anniversary party be equivalent to a baby shower? I certainly think that it is appropriate to celebrate the fact that a couple has survived such a tragic problem.Do I get a party when I return to my spouse to reconstruct the marriage after having been unfaithful? …and invite all the family, friends and coworkers who were affected and privy to this sinful behavior choice to celebrate my choice for marriage fidelity? How about first some public words of repentence and show of humility that leave no room for misinterpretation and scandal before celebrating my return? Did not the prodigal son do as much?
So if someone decides to go to the Super Bowl instead of mass and everyone they know knows that, then one should not talk to them until they pubiically repent from their sin of purposefully missing mass for the Super Bowl?Each case needs to be assessed individually …and yes, public sin and no evidence of repentence is scandalous to those who know this person intimately, as well as those who may see this as "permission’ to sin in a like manner (as being consequence free).
I certainly would not be joining this person for a Super Bowl victory party …and depending upon my relationship with this person, I would offer charitable words/actions of admonishment.So if someone decides to go to the Super Bowl instead of mass and everyone they know knows that, then one should not talk to them until they pubiically repent from their sin of purposefully missing mass for the Super Bowl?
Yes, and a good confessor would require this as part of the penance because the sin went from being a private sin to a public sin. In fact in this type of case the confessor has an obligation to make this demand on the penitent.So if someone decides to go to the Super Bowl instead of mass and everyone they know knows that, then one should not talk to them until they pubiically repent from their sin of purposefully missing mass for the Super Bowl?
Since others are addressing the whole of your post I wanted to speak about this because I wanted to make sure what is meant here.The commandment of Thou Shalt Not Kill isn’t just about physical murder, but about spiritual and emotionally abusive behavior.
If your wronged spouse was ready to throw a party, I’d cook the food and pay for the flowers myself. Hallelujah!Do I get a party when I return to my spouse to reconstruct the marriage after having been unfaithful? …and invite all the family, friends and coworkers who were affected and privy to this sinful behavior choice to celebrate my choice for marriage fidelity? How about first some public words of repentence and show of humility that leave no room for misinterpretation and scandal before celebrating my return? Did not the prodigal son do as much?
Willfully inflicting emotional harm to make a point…as you imply, emotional harm is permitted only when it cannot be avoided. Jesus spoke more severely to the Pharisees than to the woman caught in the act of adultery because the Pharisees were hard of heart.As pertains to the question at hand I don’t think that not attending the shower would constitute emotional abuse however I would concede that if she were truly ostracized then it would be emotional abuse. What I mean here by being ostracized is being “cast out” in a sense if she were treated as a leper. This would be deplorable and indeed emotional abuse. Yet, not attending the shower, in my judgment, in no way constitutes emotional abuse - just emotional harm which has no moral character.
Then if it had been your parish that I approached about getting married, I probably would not be where I am today.I would also not attend a bridal shower in that case and if I were the priest I would not marry the couple until they had lived apart for some time. That is the general policy at my parish and it is a good one.
Just out of curiosity…what type of repentance is needed to demonstrate that she needn’t be punished any longer for her behavior?Each case needs to be assessed individually …and yes, public sin and no evidence of repentence is scandalous to those who know this person intimately, as well as those who may see this as "permission’ to sin in a like manner (as being consequence free).
I can’t remember anyone ever coming up to the front of the church and making a public statement that they were repentent for having missed mass due to their personal choice. When someone doesn’t show up for the mass they usually attend, it is public (people notice they’re not there). I have NEVER had a priest tell me in the confessional that even though my sins are forgiven, I must publically continue to repent (for those sins that were public). Pride is a sin that also is publically witnessed, yet most NEVER publically repent. The whole point of the confessional is that you are repenting and asking Christ for forgiveness, therefore, asking HIS CHURCH for forgiveness (through the confessional). Something like a pregnancy of an unmarried woman is NOT easy, and ask any single parent and they’ll tell you the same. Mosher, in case no one ever told you, you’ll catch more flies with honey. The same goes for sinners, more will convert and seek forgiveness if they aren’t feeling horrible judged and aren’t made to feel that they aren’t EVER going to be good enough because of their sin. We are all sinners and it is ONLY by the GRACE of GOD (not our own doing) that we’re not all sex obsessed murderers who could give a rat’s *** about anyone (btw, Fr. Corapi also says the same thing, just in better terms).Yes, and a good confessor would require this as part of the penance because the sin went from being a private sin to a public sin. In fact in this type of case the confessor has an obligation to make this demand on the penitent.
In our state too, it is legal for a minor to recieve an abortion without parental knowledge much less parental consent.In my state girls can get abortions without parents consent. I would be easier in some ways to go get an abortion here, so I would be as supportive as I can to a girl who had the courage to keep the baby
Stereos? You’ve been to baby showers where the mom-to-be is given a stereo? The only thing I’ve seen at baby showers is baby gifts except for maybe some nice smelling lotion for the mom.I would say go and encourage others to go, but bring ONLY baby items. No CDs (except nursery rhyme stuff), no stereos, nothing fun. Baby items, and possibly maternity clothes.