Bachmann: I'll get gas under $2

[Gift_from_God]

Admittedly, I don’t know much about oil and how they make prices per barrel, but I’m pretty sure some of it has to do with the fact that there’s conflict in Libya right now.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Admittedly, I don’t know much about oil and how they make prices per barrel, but I’m pretty sure some of it has to do with the fact that there’s conflict in Libya right now.

I looked into this when the conflict first started, and as I’m sure it has an impact on it, I’m not so sure that the impact is that significant.

If I remember right, Libya has very good oil. Known as sweet oil, bad oil is sour. Basically the less sulfur the oil has the better. Libya’s from what I understand is very sweet. I’ve heard back in the days they use to actually taste the oil…not sure how true that is.

The best thing we can do for North America is produce our own oil and keep it here. The more we import the higher the exporting countries are going to want to keep the prices.

 

[ChadS]

I looked into this when the conflict first started, and as I’m sure it has an impact on it, I’m not so sure that the impact is that significant.

If I remember right, Libya has very good oil. Known as sweet oil, bad oil is sour. Basically the less sulfur the oil has the better. Libya’s from what I understand is very sweet. I’ve heard back in the days they use to actually taste the oil…not sure how true that is.

The best thing we can do for North America is produce our own oil and keep it here. The more we import the higher the exporting countries are going to want to keep the prices.

I have no idea how much oil the U.S. has or how easy it will be to extract it, whether it comes from shale or from ANWAR. But, I do think these questions are worth answering and exploring. I’m all for energy independence, but I’m not sure America can do it anytime soon. AS for $2 a gallon, this just sounds like politicians talking. I wouldn’t take it seriously from her nor would I use it as a reason to not vote for her. For now I’ll just shrug my shoulders and say “Ho Hum.”

ChadS

 

[bbarrick8383]

I have no idea how much oil the U.S. has or how easy it will be to extract it, whether it comes from shale or from ANWAR. But, I do think these questions are worth answering and exploring. I’m all for energy independence, but I’m not sure America can do it anytime soon. AS for $2 a gallon, this just sounds like politicians talking. I wouldn’t take it seriously from her nor would I use it as a reason to not vote for her. For now I’ll just shrug my shoulders and say “Ho Hum.”

ChadS

I believe two dollars a gallon is highly reasonable if we played our own cards right instead of wheeling and dealing with the middle east. We have a lot, and I can’t emphasize “a lot” enough, but we have a lot of oil. We don’t have to become completely independent but make an attempt to at least bluff OPEC and the exporting countries that we are dead serious about lowering prices ourselves.

 

[didymus]

A small group of young Americans drilled 100 wells in one year in the middle of Sherwood forest while Hitler was bombing around them.

I work with a company that has four drilling rigs going 24/7.

Once a tank battery has been established and the well is drilled, it’s oil can be tied into a line and either trucked or pumped to a refinery within a month of it’s completion.

Very impressive and I salute their contributions to the war effort. I doubt, however that the petrol from those wells cost $2.

I looked into this when the conflict first started, and as I’m sure it has an impact on it, I’m not so sure that the impact is that significant.

If I remember right, Libya has very good oil. Known as sweet oil, bad oil is sour. Basically the less sulfur the oil has the better. Libya’s from what I understand is very sweet. I’ve heard back in the days they use to actually taste the oil…not sure how true that is.

I think light, sweet, heavy, &c are terms of art though they may have started out that way. From what I’ve read we have extracted most of our easily extracted “light-sweet”. What we now have costs more to refine.

The best thing we can do for North America is produce our own oil and keep it here. The more we import the higher the exporting countries are going to want to keep the prices.

Well, not North America, but we could meet all our needs between ourselves & buying just from W. Hemisphere producers.

It would help if we quit sticking our nose where it doesn’t belong like Libya and not take on any more Missions: Impossible like Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Very impressive and I salute their contributions to the war effort. I doubt, however that the petrol from those wells cost $2.

Don’t remember, but the point is that all those years ago we were light years ahead of the rest of the world in terms of speed and production of oil.

I think light, sweet, heavy, &c are terms of art though they may have started out that way. From what I’ve read we have extracted most of our easily extracted “light-sweet”. What we now have costs more to refine.

The terms may be, however they are used quite frequently in the oil field and have an impact on the price paid for the oil. For instance, many of the wells I work on sell for about 10 dollars per barrel less than what the actual price per barrel you see on the markets because of their sulfur content. We have some leases in OK that produce a pretty sweet oil and some that produce a pretty nasty oil

Well, not North America, but we could meet all our needs between ourselves & buying just from W. Hemisphere producers.

It would help if we quit sticking our nose where it doesn’t belong like Libya and not take on any more Missions: Impossible like Iraq or Afghanistan.

Agree.

 

[Linda_Marie]

I think light, sweet, heavy, &c are terms of art though they may have started out that way. From what I’ve read we have extracted most of our easily extracted “light-sweet”. What we now have costs more to refine.

Sour crude has H2S dissolved in it and has a sour smell. It is also lethal to humans - extremely so. A small whiff of H2S will kill very quickly. This must be extracted during the refining process. Extra safety precautions must be taken to protect workers and the additional processing makes it more expensive.

Sweet crude has no H2S in it so it is less expensive to refine. It does not refer to the taste but rather the smell as compared to sour crude. It isn’t actually sweet and still stinks, imho. I can’t imagine anyone tasting it.

Light crude has a higher percentage of fuels like petrol and jet fuel. Heavy crude has a higher percentage of lubricants, greases and plastics.

The US would do much better to allow exploration and drilling in the US than be dependent on imports or releasing some the strategic reserves to bring down the price artificially and temporarily.

 

[DaveBj]

Full disclosure: although I have not made a choice yet for the 2012 election, I am a social and fiscal conservative. The last Democrat I voted for was Jimmy Carter, and that was a mistake.

However, with regard to Bachman’s statement, this is me not holding my breath.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Politico:

What a moron.

Yeah, right. I am tired of politicians who insist on insulting my intelligence and use religion to get ellect. like all the others she has no power against the oil mob and neither she is able to do what she wants even if she wants too.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Good. I’m shocked that she is a candidate at all.

Who?
Even if we opened up all US reserves & removed all obstacles it would take years for that oil to hit the market. In addition, the real bottleneck is refining capacity rather than oil supply.

I always took that to refer to namecalling fellow forum members.
But to clarify: Ms Bachmann is either a complete moron or cynically lying to persuade voters (nothing new for presidential candidates, sorry to say).

But why someone who claim to believe in smaller gov’t and the free market would say such a thing is beyond me.

Somewhere I’m sure she knows any President doesn’t (and shouldn’t have) much power to steer the economy, much less down to things like the price of gas. Likewise, having just been thru the budget/debt ceiling fight I’m sure she know none of her proposals will survive contact with Congress.

PS – one way to get $2/gal gas would thru massive deflation. I am afraid that we might get cheap gas that way as Pres. Obama’s parting gift.

Actually, the problem with U.S. energy prices is caused by government-created restrictions in supply. Obama knows that and he and the EPA [and Interior, Commerce, and State Dept] have been working overtime to reduce the supply of low-cost energy.

By strangling supply, the cost of energy has been forced to** skyrocke**t. That has been Obama’s publicly stated goal from the very beginning. Skyrocket is HIS word, and his work … not mine. He wants to cause the cost of energy to necessarily skyrocket. He likes the European model … what are they paying? $11 per gallon?

It happens two ways: cutting the physical supply and also by forcing the futures market up.

**The INSTANT President Bachmann countermands executive orders on bureaucratic restrictions, the price will drop to $2 because the futures market will know that the futures prices will plunge. **

When President Reagan got rid of oil price controls on Day One of his administration, prices dropped instantly. When President Bush II got rid of local special blends of gasoline in the wake of Katrina, prices dropped instantly.

With respect to gasoline, new oil supplies can be brought on line almost instantly.

Not “Even if we opened up all US reserves & removed all obstacles it would take years for that oil to hit the market. In addition, the real bottleneck is refining capacity rather than oil supply.” That is a false statement.

Right now we have plenty of refining capacity. You can look it up. Refineries have been shut down for various reasons; they could be brought back on line.

With respect to supply, Alaska has PLENTY of oil but they have been denied permits to drill it. If they do not drill and develop for additional supply in Alaska, they will be forced to shut down the Alaska pipeline. And if they do that, by contract, they have to demolish and remove the pipeline. Alaska now provides around 15% of the U.S. supply.

It takes about one month to drill an oil or gas well. For Alaska, make that two months because of the cold weather.

The present Alaska supply is up around Prudhoe Bay. Drilling wells there and construction gathering pipelines to the northern terminal of the Alaska Pipeline is very simple and quick. Drilling in ANWR would take only one constructions season. For that they need a 70 mile pipeline and some slant drilled wells. Very simple to do.

Texas now produces 20% of our oil. Suddenly, after how many decades? 10 decades? 100 years? they just discovered some bogus lizard … which no body has ever seen. Even the whole issue of how “they” come up with an endangered species is being vigorously investigated. But the EPA and others want to shut down Texas oil and gas drilling.

Louisiana offshore oil and gas development has been shut down. Google “Louisiana permitorium” … it’s real. THAT can be reinstated instantly. But they better get moving because the drilling rigs are being towed away to Brazil or whereever.

North Dakota. How much of the U.S oil comes from North Dakota? North Dakota? Are you serious? Right now North Dakota generates about 7% of the U.S. oil supply and it’s increasing at about 30% year over year. In the past year, they have averaged 54 new producing oil wells per month. I will provide a link.

There is much more to discuss and to present.

But Bachmann is absolutely correct.

 

[He_Man]

Politico:

What a moron.

So you can call politicians you clearfly dislike names like “moron” when they tell voters their goal for a certain portion of the economy, but calling guys like Anthony Weiner names for sending nude photos of himself, whilst married with a child, is against Catholic Ansers rules and somehow worthy of a 3 week suspension…

Hey Robert Bay, can you chime in and explain the name calling rules again - its a bit unclear.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Actually, the problem with U.S. energy prices is caused by government-created restrictions in supply. Obama knows that and he and the EPA [and Interior, Commerce, and State Dept] have been working overtime to reduce the supply of low-cost energy.

By strangling supply, the cost of energy has been forced to** skyrocke**t. That has been Obama’s publicly stated goal from the very beginning. Skyrocket is HIS word, and his work … not mine. He wants to cause the cost of energy to necessarily skyrocket. He likes the European model … what are they paying? $11 per gallon?

It happens two ways: cutting the physical supply and also by forcing the futures market up.

**The INSTANT President Bachmann countermands executive orders on bureaucratic restrictions, the price will drop to $2 because the futures market will know that the futures prices will plunge. **

When President Reagan got rid of oil price controls on Day One of his administration, prices dropped instantly. When President Bush II got rid of local special blends of gasoline in the wake of Katrina, prices dropped instantly.

With respect to gasoline, new oil supplies can be brought on line almost instantly.

Not “Even if we opened up all US reserves & removed all obstacles it would take years for that oil to hit the market. In addition, the real bottleneck is refining capacity rather than oil supply.” That is a false statement.

Right now we have plenty of refining capacity. You can look it up. Refineries have been shut down for various reasons; they could be brought back on line.

With respect to supply, Alaska has PLENTY of oil but they have been denied permits to drill it. If they do not drill and develop for additional supply in Alaska, they will be forced to shut down the Alaska pipeline. And if they do that, by contract, they have to demolish and remove the pipeline. Alaska now provides around 15% of the U.S. supply.

It takes about one month to drill an oil or gas well. For Alaska, make that two months because of the cold weather.

The present Alaska supply is up around Prudhoe Bay. Drilling wells there and construction gathering pipelines to the northern terminal of the Alaska Pipeline is very simple and quick. Drilling in ANWR would take only one constructions season. For that they need a 70 mile pipeline and some slant drilled wells. Very simple to do.

Texas now produces 20% of our oil. Suddenly, after how many decades? 10 decades? 100 years? they just discovered some bogus lizard … which no body has ever seen. Even the whole issue of how “they” come up with an endangered species is being vigorously investigated. But the EPA and others want to shut down Texas oil and gas drilling.

Louisiana offshore oil and gas development has been shut down. Google “Louisiana permitorium” … it’s real. THAT can be reinstated instantly. But they better get moving because the drilling rigs are being towed away to Brazil or whereever.

North Dakota. How much of the U.S oil comes from North Dakota? North Dakota? Are you serious? Right now North Dakota generates about 7% of the U.S. oil supply and it’s increasing at about 30% year over year. In the past year, they have averaged 54 new producing oil wells per month. I will provide a link.

There is much more to discuss and to present.

But Bachmann is absolutely correct.

Here is the State of North Dakota’s web site with actual oil and gas production data. It is up to date … only about three months behind real time.

The EIA, a Federal agency, is about two years behind. I do not understand how a well funded Federal agency can be that backwards.

You can visit each state’s web page … just google oil and natural gas production statistics for each state by name and you can get up to date accurate information.

This ND report is for oil only.

Of interest, it goes back to “the beginning” … April 1951 … when there was exactly ONE oil well.

dmr.nd.gov/oilgas/stats/historicaloilprodstats.pdf

If we hunt around, I’d bet we could find a ND natural gas report.

Working …

dmr.nd.gov/oilgas/

WHOA!!!

A whole page just listing the various statistical pages:

dmr.nd.gov/oilgas/stats/statisticsvw.asp

And … BINGO! … a natural gas report, by month.

dmr.nd.gov/oilgas/stats/Gas1990ToPresent.pdf

Probably about 20 states now produce oil (and natural gas) from shale.

Visit here and click along the left edge to get all the production details … there are separate buttons for each rock formation … each one covers multi-states:

oilshalegas.com/niobrarashale.html

One of the issues related to oil production is shipping the oil to Gulf Coast refineries which have plenty of capacity.

This article discusses how that is being done. And also indicates that North Dakota has surpassed Louisiana in production:

washingtonexaminer.com/news/2011/03/nd-oil-companies-ship-rail-get-better-price

There is another link to a series of articles regarding two pipelines from North Dakota … one is being or was shut down by the EPA and the other is how the State Dept is stopping construction of a new pipeline. A new pipeline would take about a year to build. Not much time at all.

 

[didymus]

So you can call politicians you clearfly dislike names like “moron” when they tell voters their goal for a certain portion of the economy, but calling guys like Anthony Weiner names for sending nude photos of himself, whilst married with a child, is against Catholic Ansers rules and somehow worthy of a 3 week suspension…

Hey Robert Bay, can you chime in and explain the name calling rules again - its a bit unclear.

Watch it! Questioning the admin’s rulings will get you another suspension – or worse.
You’ll notice stanmaxkolbe isn’t around anymore.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

The Governor of Pennsylvania, all by himself, could break the back of the high gasoline price nonsense by mandating … executive order … that effective in six months, all new cars sold in Pennsylvania must be Flex Fuel Vehicles, www.energyvictory.net … [that Web site has the wording and the techie details] … meaning that they would be equipped to burn ANY mix of gasoline, ethanol, and/or METHANOL … Methanol can be made from Pennsylvania natural gas … methane. Easy-peasy. That’s all he would have to do.

Methanol is so cheap at under $2 per gallon that the market to supply methanol would pop up overnight. The technology already exists. The product already exists. The production plants already exist. It WAS the standard for auto racing fuel because it burns safer, cleaner and without smoke. Out in California the ethanol people got methanol banned … they got to Ahhnnold, the (name removed by moderator) who signed the order banning methanol.

www.methanol.org

The technology to make a Flex Fuel car is already available. It would take only a few months to get those features into the production line. Cost would be around $100 per car; minimal.

If California can require “California cars”, then Pennsylvania can require “Pennsylvania cars” that optionally can burn methanol - driver’s choice at the pump decision.

You could dial up what you want at the pump. The pumps exist. You could buy M100 or M0 or E10. Any combination. M100 would be the cheapest by far. For your older car, you could use M5 or M10 or M0. For your chain saw or generator, you could use M0. Airplane fuel is getting problematical; you could probably use M0 for reciprocating engines … without the gunky E10.

Once everyone saw how advantageous the Pennsylvania cars were, the other governors would write the same executive order for their states as well. The price of automotive fuel would drop by 50% overnight.

**Bachmann is absolutely correct in her statement. Getting gasoline back down to $2 would be very simple. But Obama deliberately wants expensive gasoline. **

 

[mark_a]

And how’s that working out?

It sure won’t happen overnight. Just like NASA’s trip to the moon, it takes foresight and a public buy-in.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Just reverse the restrictions!

Obama signed off on the moratorium, but the permits from Interior are dribbling out at a snail’s pace or slower. Would need to get detailed specific current information rather than generalized.

As of two months ago, still no permits:

lonelyconservative.com/2011/03/senator-mary-landrieu-grills-ken-salazar-on-permitorium/

BP put up $20 Billion for disaster relief in the Gulf, but only a few percent of it has been spent:

thepelicanpost.org/2011/04/25/exclusive-interview-what-permitorium-statistics-dont-show/

June 16, 2011 … still no permits:

arkansasnews.com/2011/06/16/gulf-of-mexico-oil-permitorium-must-end/

June 29, 2011 … still no permits:

soitgoesinshreveport.blogspot.com/2011/06/permitorium-in-gulf-persists.html
ReplyQuoteNotify

 

[Monte_RCMS]

January 2008. 13 seconds at the editorial board, San Francisco Chronicle.

OBAMA: What I’ve said is that we, uh, would put a cap-and-trade system in place that is more – that is as aggressive if not more aggressive than anybody else’s out there. So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that, duh, greenhouse gas that’s being emitted. When I was asked earlier about, uh, the issue of coal, uhhh, you know, under my plan, uh, of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.
Me, summarizing:
So, when you remove alternate energy sources, then the cost of the remaining energy increases.

Coal accounts for 50% of electricity. Cut that, and where do you go for electrical energy?

Oil may not now be used for generating much electricity, but it is used for a number of things besides automotive fuel. You could use natural gas for automotive fuel … by converting natural gas … which is methane … to methanol or by converting the methane to
plastics. Oil is used to make plastics. And natural gas can be used to generate electricity. Lots of alternatives and substitutions.

So, what Obama is doing is cutting off our overall energy supply and causing prices to skyrocket.

If we just free up the market place, reverse the Obama edicts, prices will drop overnight.

Bachmann is correct!!

 

[KostyaJMJ]

A lot of the domestic oil that we are talking about producing, oil shale and ANWAR, would not be profitable if gasoline were at $2 a gallon. Most estimates that I’ve seen have oil shale becoming profitable at around 75-90 dollars a barrel.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

A lot of the domestic oil that we are talking about producing, oil shale and ANWAR, would not be profitable if gasoline were at $2 a gallon. Most estimates that I’ve seen have oil shale becoming profitable at around 75-90 dollars a barrel.

I would need to see the data you are referring to.

Do you have a link?

ANWR is not shale oil.

So discussion of shale oil costs with respect to ANWR is irrelevant.

A shale well costs around $5 million.

So the break-even per barrel cost depends on how long the well lasts. And how much oil they get out of it.

The earlier estimates of what percent of the total recovery they get has jumped substantially, so the volume is way up. The decline rates have gotten much better. All of the technology improves every month with new innovations.

Almost all of the natural gas for the whole East Coast of the U.S. is being provided by only a few hundred wells in Pennsylvania. There is so much natural gas that the price has dropped by more than 50%, and the natural gas companies are still drilling and still connecting up wells to the major pipelines. The big problem now is finding more customers. And they are doing that … but putting in the distribution pipelines takes time. NYC has now two huge electric generators that use natural gas … one in Brooklyn and one in Bayonne, NJ. Distribution mains are going in everywhere. And at least one pipe factory has reopened (in Ohio).

So all of the previous assumptions regarding break-even seem to be untrue. They were assumptions but actual experience seems to be contradicting the assumptions.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

I would need to see the data you are referring to.

Do you have a link?

The various attempts to develop oil shale deposits have succeeded only when the cost of shale-oil production in a given region comes in below the price of crude oil or its other substitutes. According to a survey conducted by the RAND Corporation, the cost of producing a barrel of oil at a surface retorting complex in the United States (comprising a mine, retorting plant, upgrading plant, supporting utilities, and spent shale reclamation), would range between US$70–95 ($440–600/m3, adjusted to 2005 values).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale_economics

fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/publications/Pubs-NPR/40010-373.pdf

ANWR is not shale oil.

So discussion of shale oil costs with respect to ANWR is irrelevant.

I didn’t mean that ANWR was shale only that it was expensive to produce, and delivering it to market is fraught with risks so it is only profitable when oil is high. If the cost of a barrel of oil were to drop I imagine that oil companies would go towards more profitable, easily accessible reservoirs and produce in ANWR in the future when oil is high again.

A shale well costs around $5 million.

So the break-even per barrel cost depends on how long the well lasts. And how much oil they get out of it.

The earlier estimates of what percent of the total recovery they get has jumped substantially, so the volume is way up. The decline rates have gotten much better. All of the technology improves every month with new innovations.

Almost all of the natural gas for the whole East Coast of the U.S. is being provided by only a few hundred wells in Pennsylvania. There is so much natural gas that the price has dropped by more than 50%, and the natural gas companies are still drilling and still connecting up wells to the major pipelines. The big problem now is finding more customers. And they are doing that … but putting in the distribution pipelines takes time. NYC has now two huge electric generators that use natural gas … one in Brooklyn and one in Bayonne, NJ. Distribution mains are going in everywhere. And at least one pipe factory has reopened (in Ohio).

So all of the previous assumptions regarding break-even seem to be untrue. They were assumptions but actual experience seems to be contradicting the assumptions.

Oil shale may indeed be profitable and bring thousands of jobs to the US but it will not bring enough oil to the global market to significantly reduce the price of a barrel of oil. If Bachmann wants to influence the market for oil she will have to come up with another plan.