Back to the question of nude modeling

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So, I’m not looking to start a fire-war here, but just get some feedback. If you think nude modeling is ok, why, and under what circumstances. Likewise, if not, then for what reason, and do you know of an alternative an alternative way to learn nude art, since the Church says it is (well, can be) ok.
I think it is appropriate only for life drawing classes. The dignity of the model in her whole person must be first in the minds of the students. There are good anatomy books out there. I don’t know what you mean by nude art. In the early 1950s, there was a vague connection to art with nude subjects but it became clear that what was meant for the art student ended up in the stacks of what would be called soft porn later on. A trip to a used bookstore would be evidence enough.

Today, I cannot think of a single reason to draw or paint a nude figure. Seeing the nude for art purposes helps show how rather complex muscle groups are integrated. Anatomy books help us understand that there is a lot beneath the skin as well.

Peace,
Ed
 
So, I’m not looking to start a fire-war here, but just get some feedback. If you think nude modeling is ok, why, and under what circumstances. Likewise, if not, then for what reason, and do you know of an alternative an alternative way to learn nude art, since the Church says it is (well, can be) ok.
Don’t do it privately, under any circumstances. Work only for accredited art institutions, and insist that the protocols are followed - no one enters or leaves the room during the session, and no one comes on to the mat or stand where you are working. Ensure that there are coverings over the doors, in case someone enters by accident.

Good artists’ models are hard to come by. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors. 🙂
 
What about nude photography/modeling? And how can one discern what the intention of the artist is, whether sexual or artistic?
100% sexual and a clear imitation of the current trend of photographing the mostly nude model.

Art needs standards and clear intention that is obvious. It needs boundaries.

Peace,
Ed
 
We could go back to the basic question, why is nude art considered necessary?
Good figure drawing and proportion is possible without complete nudity.
As an artist myself, I can draw and paint people well without requiring anyone to disrobe.
Would anyone with sufficient respect for Christian values and inner morality, wish to pose naked for anyone or a roomful of people?
And who’s to say that no one in that room has inappropriate/sinful feelings and thoughts, then or later being, in faced with a naked person they must study carefully and render?
My life drawing class was four hours long. Four fifteen minute gesture sketches. A dozen semi-finished pieces that captured the major details, and one final, very detailed rendering. Believe me, I was working too hard to think of anything else but my instructor walking around and passing by each of us as we worked out how the human figure “worked.” My goal was to understand that each line I put down meant something and understanding lighting and shadows - that was difficult.

Amateur artists tend to put down lines and make marks for shadows without understanding real rendering. And yes, a nude model is not required.

Peace,
Ed
 
Deviantart is a rather large artsy-type website, and artsy-types tend to be attracted to rebellious-sounding things. So I think the name stems from knowing one’s audience; nothing more sinister than that.

I also agree that sensual art is not necessarily over the line. Kinda like modesty - what’s across-the-line for one person is perfectly safe for another.
No relativism for me. There must be standards and that deviantart photo crosses the line. Modesty needs to be universal. It cannot be played with or manipulated.

Safe? There’s nothing safe in that photo.

Peace,
Ed
 
Michelangelo had nude models pose for him when he was creating his art. 🤷
Certainly you understand the distinction between this:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

and the “art work” located on the site posted by the OP? The latter is clearly designed to arouse the senses and entice viewers to lust after the subject of the photo.
 
Certainly you understand the distinction between this:

http://static.artbible.info/large/slang_appel.jpg

and the “art work” located on the site posted by the OP? The latter is clearly designed to arouse the senses and entice viewers to lust after the subject of the photo.
You are right. The classic artists are often used as an excuse, but no comparison can be made with the way nudes/semi-nudes are depicted today as meant for publication.

Peace,
Ed
 
Not to deny your conclusions, but could someone explain to me specifically what makes the photo I linked pornographic/sexual? No genitalia is exposed, she is alone and doing nothing sexual in the photo. I would just really like to know the difference. I would also like to know whether nude photography is applicable as nude art, since what most call “good nude art” is painting or sculpture. Thanks and God bless.
 
Not to deny your conclusions, but could someone explain to me specifically what makes the photo I linked pornographic/sexual? No genitalia is exposed, she is alone and doing nothing sexual in the photo. I would just really like to know the difference. I would also like to know whether nude photography is applicable as nude art, since what most call “good nude art” is painting or sculpture. Thanks and God bless.
Photography would definitely qualify, as it is art that involves the human body.

As to the photo, IMNAAHO: The way in which her limbs are crossed draws the eye to her “sexual zones” rather than along the natural lines of the body. This even though the body is NOT nude.

ICXC NIKA
 
Photography would definitely qualify, as it is art that involves the human body.

As to the photo, IMNAAHO: The way in which her limbs are crossed draws the eye to her “sexual zones” rather than along the natural lines of the body. This even though the body is NOT nude.

ICXC NIKA
I don’t see anything wrong with nudity in general, so my views might be off center here. But it is an interesting question… the art vs porn one. Many of the masterpieces of nude sculpture and painting do have erotic energy. The modeling itself is just work. Unless it is a sex shoot, i doubt that many models experience posing as anything other than work.
 
Not to deny your conclusions, but could someone explain to me specifically what makes the photo I linked pornographic/sexual? No genitalia is exposed, she is alone and doing nothing sexual in the photo. I would just really like to know the difference. I would also like to know whether nude photography is applicable as nude art, since what most call “good nude art” is painting or sculpture. Thanks and God bless.
Intention. Clear intention. What is the purpose of the model in the photo? As published/posted, she has only one clear purpose: sexual arousal.

Where would anyone present this type of photo as art? And once again, for what purpose?

Peace,
Ed
 
Intention. Clear intention. What is the purpose of the model in the photo? As published/posted, she has only one clear purpose: sexual arousal.

Where would anyone present this type of photo as art? And once again, for what purpose?

Peace,
Ed
Can I get your opinion on something like this?

musetouch.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/4cf22654cad8d45069cd6a62fb242958.jpg

Or this?

differentphotographystyles.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/imsirreal_1.jpg

Would you personally consider these art or pornographic?
 
Not to deny your conclusions, but could someone explain to me specifically what makes the photo I linked pornographic/sexual? No genitalia is exposed, she is alone and doing nothing sexual in the photo. I would just really like to know the difference. I would also like to know whether nude photography is applicable as nude art, since what most call “good nude art” is painting or sculpture. Thanks and God bless.
This is from JPII:
Another thing is the body as the model of the work of art, as in the plastic arts, sculpture or painting. Is it possible to also put films or the photographic art in a wide sense on the same level? It seems so, although from the point of view of the body as object-theme, a quite essential difference takes place in this case. In painting or sculpture the human body always remains a model, undergoing specific elaboration on the part of the artist. In the film, and even more in the photographic art, it is not the model that is transfigured, but the living man is reproduced. In this case man, the human body, is not a model for the work of art, but the object of a reproduction obtained by means of suitable techniques.
It should be added at once that when artistic reproduction becomes the content of representation and transmission (on television or in films), it loses, in a way, its fundamental contact with the human body, of which it is a reproduction. It often becomes an anonymous object, just like an anonymous photographic document published in illustrated magazines, or an image diffused on the screens of the whole world. This anonymity is the effect of the “propagation” of the image-reproduction of the human body, objectivized first with the help of the techniques of reproduction, which—as has been recalled above—seems to be essentially differentiated from the transfiguration of the model typical of the work of art, especially in the plastic arts. This anonymity (which, moreover, is a way of veiling or hiding the identity of the person reproduced) also constitutes a specific problem from the point of view of the ethos of the human body in works of culture, especially in the modern works of mass culture, as it is called.
and:
The artist who undertakes that theme in any sphere of art or through audiovisual media, must be aware of the full truth of the object, of the whole scale of values connected with it. He must not only take them into account in abstracto, but also live them correctly himself. This corresponds also to that principle of purity of heart, which in determined cases must be transferred from the existential sphere of attitudes and ways of behavior to the intentional sphere of creation or artistic reproduction.
 
I don’t see anything wrong with nudity in general, so my views might be off center here. But it is an interesting question… the art vs porn one. Many of the masterpieces of nude sculpture and painting do have erotic energy. The modeling itself is just work. Unless it is a sex shoot, i doubt that many models experience posing as anything other than work.
Speaking from a purely commercial standpoint - it’s not just work. The model is posed, dressed, even partly, and given props to use, sit or lay on in some cases, like the photo posted earlier. Where do you sell this? And models do get paid, right?

Masterpieces have clear boundaries and limits and standards that qualify them as such.

Peace,
Ed
 
Both are not art. The intention is just non-typical posing and lighting of the human form. Once again, for what purpose?

Peace,
Ed
Well if I did a “typical posing,” the private parts would show. So of course they are not in a pose that is just standing there with the arms to the sides.

Can you show us an example of what nude photography you would consider as being “art?”
 
Well if I did a “typical posing,” the private parts would show. So of course they are not in a pose that is just standing there with the arms to the sides.

Can you show us an example of what nude photography you would consider as being “art?”
Art is not a label that is self-imposed. Art has standards. These standards are universal, especially as it regards the nude female form. Some here are fond of pointing out that a country or countries “allows” this or that. That’s not the issue here.

Meaning no disrespect, but knowing how the world of art and art photography works, there are clear dividing lines. And they are modeled on a religious style hierarchy.

Art critics exist to not only evaluate and criticize art but also to give it direction, no matter how subtly. An example of what I mean comes from recent announcements from a small clique of elite fashion designers and elite publications. Vogue magazine has announced ‘no more photos of skinny models.’ Period. Another reputable publication has announced: “The Return of the Woman.” In that case, a certain body type has been chosen by this priestly class as the “new” standard which all must follow. By the way, the “woman” in this case has a defined, small waist, and defined hips. As opposed to looking more like a stick or two by four.

Let’s take a modern nude photo. Just a single figure. Who decides it is art? The priests of the art community, namely art critics and gallery owners. If your work and name gets the word “important” attached to it in some prestigious art publication, then you and your work are deemed important by others and worthy of showing in a gallery, but only if the gallery owner, another part of the priestly order, agrees. You have been elevated in status, and you now have a chance to be exhibited in one of the Cathedrals of Art - the Art Museum. Your mere appearance there elevates you again. You now have the ability to earn awards, have more gallery showings and even publication in a thick coffee table book with your work printed on the highest quality paper. And interviews, since, in many eyes, knowing your work is not enough. They must know you, your vision and what drives your vision.

To answer your question, there is no reason for nude photography as art anymore. Circa 1952, there were publications designed for art students with nude models. None of the poses were sexually provocative, and the lighting was meant to highlight form - nothing experimental. The expression on the model’s face was either demure and detached or a slight smile. These publications were not meant to exist as pin-up art but as substitutes for a live model for learning the human form. By the way, pubic hair was brushed out.

My point is: at the time, no one knew what was coming. Sincerity and trust meant that some used these publications for the intended purpose, but some did not. Had it stopped at that point, one could make an argument that what was shown was art photography. But it didn’t.

Girlie magazines appeared offering photos of beautiful nude or topless models posed in pleasant surroundings. Again, no pubic hair but “pasties” were added in some magazines, either real, or added to the photo later, to cover the breast nipples. These were mostly girl next door types, but all of these magazines were considered dirty and immoral, as it was obvious that they inspired lust and masturbation.

There was a period where “glamour photography” of nudes was promoted as an art form in the 1950s, and there were name glamour photographers who built elaborate to modest settings to pose their models, sometimes with props or just a bit of strategic covering. And I mean a little bit. They published books with elaborate instructions regarding lighting, f stops, and pushing the contrast in the final print, the effects of color and using single and multiple light sources, and other somewhat scholarly information.

That ended in the 1960s. New girlie magazines featured a lot of nudes and semi-nudes and dispensed with any artistic intent. You bought those for one reason - to masturbate.

Playboy wrapped its picture section of nude and semi-nude models in a “lifestyle” publication. You got articles about the classiest cars, the best in men’s clothing and accessories, interviews with people like Fidel Castro, and art by name artists. It was considered dirty and immoral as well.

I remember how the local moms in the 1960s discovered a neighbor had thrown out a box of old playboys and they knew we boys would be tempted. So they took the box and disposed of it by means that were never revealed.

continued…
 
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