Bad Experiences at Children's Mass

[Brendan]

I will say it one last time.

1. I posted the remedy when someone** thinks **there is an abuse at the Mass.

You are mistaken, R.S. outlines things that ARE grave abuses. Therefore there is no subjective determination on our part at all.

Therefore we MUST do all that is in our power to correct it. If we do not, we are being disobedient to the instructions to us by the Church.

 

[SunnaB16]

I am hoping to join my parish’s Liturgical Committee to make the Mass documents better known.

Best wishes in your courageous endeavour!
Dont let the "Liturgical Committee" members know why you want to join it. The last thing theyd want would be to make the Mass documents better known.

 

[Phemie]

Best wishes in your courageous endeavour!
Dont let the "Liturgical Committee" members know why you want to join it. The last thing theyd want would be to make the Mass documents better known.

I’ve been on many liturgy committees in the last 30 years (military spouse who moved, on average, every 4 years) and in all but the last one there was nary a mention of “Mass documents”. I had no idea that such a thing as a the GIRM existed. Priests did what they wanted and the laity were none the wiser. I remember one priest celebrating Mass as we were all seated around the table in the meeting room of the RC Chapel. Now I know military chaplains are used to celebrating Mass anywhere out of necessity but, when the altar is 50 feet away, using the conference table seems just a tad abusive.

One priest I met (the pastor in my parents’ parish) was blatant in telling his liturgy committee that having the congregation reciting the doxology was forbidden but he refused to stop it. Going to Mass home was distressing. Of course, the Mass wasn’t the only thing he messed around with. He cleared out the life savings of a former Sister and the bank accounts of 4 parishes.

Other than the former pastor who encouraged us to take courses in Liturgy (between 2001-2004) and was very orthodox in what he did, I’ve found that most priests would be happier if we were totally clueless so that they wouldn’t have to deal with our complaints.

 

[Alex2008]

I’ve been on many liturgy committees in the last 30 years (military spouse who moved, on average, every 4 years) and in all but the last one there was nary a mention of “Mass documents”. I had no idea that such a thing as a the GIRM existed. Priests did what they wanted and the laity were none the wiser. I remember one priest celebrating Mass as we were all seated around the table in the meeting room of the RC Chapel. Now I know military chaplains are used to celebrating Mass anywhere out of necessity but, when the altar is 50 feet away, using the conference table seems just a tad abusive.

One priest I met (the pastor in my parents’ parish) was blatant in telling his liturgy committee that having the congregation reciting the doxology was forbidden but he refused to stop it. Going to Mass home was distressing. Of course, the Mass wasn’t the only thing he messed around with. He cleared out the life savings of a former Sister and the bank accounts of 4 parishes.

Other than the former pastor who encouraged us to take courses in Liturgy (between 2001-2004) and was very orthodox in what he did, I’ve found that most priests would be happier if we were totally clueless so that they wouldn’t have to deal with our complaints.

Phemie,

As a former priest who left because of illness, I find that I’m insulted and grieved for my brother priests who sturggle everyday to do what is right. To insinuate that “most priests” want people to be clueless so they can do what they want in the liturgy is a rather unfair statement. Do you really believe that??

I must admit that I’m glad to be gone from ministry…I got the feeling when I left that people didn’t care one whit for their priests…comments like this and others, make me feel that little has changed in the 20 years since I left. How disappointing!

 

[thomas_jd]

At my parish, before going into their classrooms for catechism classes, the children all attend the Sunday morning Mass together. The children (from K-10th) and teachers sit on one side and the parents and other parishoners sit on the other side. The problem is it feels very chaotic. The first thing that disturbed me is that the right before the priest gave the homily, he invited all the children to go and sit on the altar. I’m talking about a hundred kids!!! Then instead of him giving the homily, he invited religious sisters to go up and talk to them (he normally gives the homily though). The kids off course were messing around on the altar. Then he asked them to go back to their seats and started the Nicene Creed as they were making their way back. The entire time, even during the Consecration, the kids in back of us were kicking the pews and talking. Then at the elevation all the kids say as loud as possible “My Lord and My God.” During the distribution of the Eucharis, several EMHCs stand in the front, while the priest runs down the main aisle to bless all the children individually I am so disappointed at the lack of reverence. It had been a long time since I had gone. They used to tie balloons to the pews for this Mass and once the priest arm wrestled a kid on the altar to explain the Gospel Has anyone else experienced children’s Masses like this?

You first state that “right before the priest gave the homily”" he invited the children to sit on the altar.I take that to mean alongside or in front not on top. Then instead of giving the homily, he invited religious sisters to go up and talk to them.
The sisters were within prescribed norms speaking before the Creed, contrary to other posts mistakenly calling the “talk” preaching and also regulating the time untill at the announcements. Either time is permitted!
It is rather strange to see a hundred children at the altar. I have also seen this at a few different churches. It seems to be a new approach to include children in mass.Whether it works or not remains to be seen. Whatever method a priest utilizes is fine with me provided it follows the rubrics.
Last year there were thirteen children in the eight grade religious education class at my parish. I have seen only one ,of that group at mass on a regular schedule this year. Something is lacking in the education of our children outside of private schools or diocesian schools.
Before you write Rome, your Bishop, your third grade school teacher,etc…ask the priest involved “what happened and why.”? The question to be answered is whether or not he gave a homily.

 

[Phemie]

Phemie,

As a former priest who left because of illness, I find that I’m insulted and grieved for my brother priests who sturggle everyday to do what is right. To insinuate that “most priests” want people to be clueless so they can do what they want in the liturgy is a rather unfair statement. Do you really believe that??

I must admit that I’m glad to be gone from ministry…I got the feeling when I left that people didn’t care one whit for their priests…comments like this and others, make me feel that little has changed in the 20 years since I left. How disappointing!

I sorry that you’re insulted by what I wrote but I speak from personal experience having had it yelled at me that they had never listened to Rome regarding EMHCs before and, documents referred to notwithstanding, they weren’t about to start now.

Other than the pastor I mentioned, other priests I have dealings with roll their eyes when documents such as the GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum are mentioned. Some categorically refuse to even entertain that “Paschale Solemnitatis” might be consulted for Holy Week and do whatever they want including leaving the Blessed Sacrament in the Tabernacle for the Mass of the Lord’s Supper.

When you consistently see things like the ciborium being passed around like a candy dish for the EMHCs to help themselves to Communion and the EMHCs being given Communion before the priest receives you start to look at every priest with a jaundiced eye until you see an adherence to the rubrics. I’m at the point now that a properly celebrated Mass comes as a surprise and that is a sad state of affairs.

 

[benedictgal]

You first state that “right before the priest gave the homily”" he invited the children to sit on the altar.I take that to mean alongside or in front not on top. Then instead of giving the homily, he invited religious sisters to go up and talk to them.
The sisters were within prescribed norms speaking before the Creed, contrary to other posts mistakenly calling the “talk” preaching and also regulating the time untill at the announcements. Either time is permitted!
It is rather strange to see a hundred children at the altar. I have also seen this at a few different churches. It seems to be a new approach to include children in mass.Whether it works or not remains to be seen. Whatever method a priest utilizes is fine with me provided it follows the rubrics.
Last year there were thirteen children in the eight grade religious education class at my parish. I have seen only one ,of that group at mass on a regular schedule this year. Something is lacking in the education of our children outside of private schools or diocesian schools.
Before you write Rome, your Bishop, your third grade school teacher,etc…ask the priest involved “what happened and why.”? The question to be answered is whether or not he gave a homily.

With all due respect, the prescribed norms do not place this “talk” before the Creed. Redemptionis Sacramentum is very clear about this:

74.] If the need arises for the gathered faithful to be given instruction or testimony by a layperson in a church concerning the Christian life, **it is altogether preferable that this be done outside Mass. **Nevertheless, for serious reasons it is permissible that this type of instruction or testimony be given after the Priest has proclaimed the Prayer after Communion. This should not become a regular practice, however. Furthermore, these instructions and testimony should not be of such a nature that they could be confused with the homily,156 nor is it permissible to dispense with the homily on their account.

Thus, RS is very clear as to when this “talk” should take place.

 

[miniquedoes]

The question to be answered is whether or not he gave a homily.

No this time he did not speak at all. The reason I said right before the “priest gave the homily” is because for the past few weeks, he has called the children up to sit down on the sanctuary (not literally altar ) and those times he did give the homily.

 

[miniquedoes]

Best wishes in your courageous endeavour!
Dont let the "Liturgical Committee" members know why you want to join it. The last thing theyd want would be to make the Mass documents better known.

Thank you

 

[Pregustator]

…you start to look at every priest with a jaundiced eye until you see an adherence to the rubrics. I’m at the point now that a properly celebrated Mass comes as a surprise and that is a sad state of affairs.

Amen.

 

[thomas_jd]

No this time he did not speak at all. The reason I said right before the “priest gave the homily” is because for the past few weeks, he has called the children up to sit down on the sanctuary (not literally altar ) and those times he did give the homily.

Ask him why he didn’t give a homily: do it in a charitable way. Thanks for your clarification