Bahá'í

[IgnatianPhilo]

He didn’t lie about His nature…

In our Writings there are three stations of the Manifestation…

1. A physical material part…
2. The rational soul…which is the human reality…

The two above are shared by us all as human beings…

and the third station 3)

*The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit.

It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning. So the reckoning of days, weeks, months and years, of yesterday and today, is connected with the terrestrial globe; but in the sun there is no such thing – there is neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow, neither months nor years*

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 150

So Basically he claimed his eternal father was God.

 

[Love4All]

He didn’t lie about His nature…

In our Writings there are three stations of the Manifestation…

1. A physical material part…
2. The rational soul…which is the human reality…

The two above are shared by us all as human beings…

and the third station 3)

*The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit.

It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning. So the reckoning of days, weeks, months and years, of yesterday and today, is connected with the terrestrial globe; but in the sun there is no such thing – there is neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow, neither months nor years*

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 150

It seems to me, based on what you’ve written, that the Christian view of Jesus is that He IS the third station AS the first and second stations of the Person, Jesus Christ. Does that contradict your doctrine in some way?

 

[mum_of_three]

Hi.
I have a question for all baha’is…
First off i want to say i know very little of this religion so if i make a mistake, pls put me straight.
My question is this…from what i understand so far, you believe in all religions, yes? Islam teaches that Muhammad is the last prophet so logic would suggest that to believe this, you are denying the prophethood of your own prophets. Is this right or do u not believe that muhammad is the last prophet?
Like i said, i dont know much and this is only from what ive gathered so far.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Hi.
I have a question for all baha’is…
First off i want to say i know very little of this religion so if i make a mistake, pls put me straight.
My question is this…from what i understand so far, you believe in all religions, yes? Islam teaches that Muhammad is the last prophet so logic would suggest that to believe this, you are denying the prophethood of your own prophets. Is this right or do u not believe that muhammad is the last prophet?
Like i said, i dont know much and this is only from what ive gathered so far.

They don’t really believe in all religions. Though they claim the worlds major religions have the same spiritual heritage, they cannot reconcile the contradictions that exist between all of them.

 

[MartinJordan]

They don’t really believe in all religions. Though they claim the worlds major religions have the same spiritual heritage, they cannot reconcile the contradictions that exist between all of them.

OIC. They believe also in Lord Siva and what not?

MJ

 

[arthra]

Hi.
I have a question for all baha’is…
First off i want to say i know very little of this religion so if i make a mistake, pls put me straight.
My question is this…from what i understand so far, you believe in all religions, yes? Islam teaches that Muhammad is the last prophet so logic would suggest that to believe this, you are denying the prophethood of your own prophets. Is this right or do u not believe that muhammad is the last prophet?
Like i said, i dont know much and this is only from what ive gathered so far.

Thanks for your question “mum”…

If you read the Qur’an the verse in question is usually translated at the time that Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets and this is viewed by probably most Muslims that there can be no further prophets… Our view of the verse however is that Muhammad was the “seal” of the age of prophecy that His dispensation is now closed and that the age of fulfillment is open and has begun.

Also that each Manifestation of God can declare that They are the beginning and the end…

"…they are all but Messengers of that ideal King, that unchangeable Essence. And were they all to proclaim: “I am the Seal of the Prophets,” they verily utter but the truth, beyond the faintest shadow of doubt. For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. They are all the manifestation of the “Beginning” and the “End,” the “First” and the “Last,” the “Seen” and “Hidden” – all of which pertain to Him Who is the innermost Spirit of Spirits and eternal Essence of Essences."

~ Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 178



Also note that there was a strong expectation of the prophesied Mahdi or Qa’im early in the nineteenth century… We feel these prophesies were fulfilled by Siyyid Ali Muhammad the Bab.

 

[mum_of_three]

Thank you for your answers. I have a quran, sahih hadiths of al bukhari and a bible so i would say Im familiar with what both religions teach and preach and they do indeed seem contradictory of one another. There are even those who say each are contradictory within themselves. So in following the Baha’i faith, do you acknowledge the contradictions? Im just trying to understand here, not question your faith at all. Its just Im a little confused. I practiced Islam for around two months and honestly, it felt as though all that had come before had to be forgotten ie the OT, NT scriptures as in Islam, these are flawed/had been corrupted. Yet in Islam, i was taught it was the same God and that all prophets were real. Although i only have experience in Christianity and Islam, i am really confused about said contradictions in the face of claims that its the same God.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The say the religions only differ on social practice. Except thats wrong as well. Islam taught Jesus Christ was not God, the quran says we err in putting him along side of allah. Christians have always maintained Jesus was God.

 

[arthra]

Mum wrote:

So in following the Baha’i faith, do you acknowledge the contradictions? Im just trying to understand here, not question your faith at all. Its just Im a little confused. I practiced Islam for around two months and honestly, it felt as though all that had come before had to be forgotten ie the OT, NT scriptures as in Islam, these are flawed/had been corrupted. Yet in Islam, i was taught it was the same God and that all prophets were real. Although i only have experience in Christianity and Islam, i am really confused about said contradictions in the face of claims that its the same God

My reply:

In our view it’s not so much corruption as misinterpretation over time… The spiritual truths we feel are the same…

It is the same God and all the Prophets are Messengers of God and His Manifestations.

Verily that light (i. e., the Light of the Manifestation) shone forth from the horizon of the Manifestation, appeared upon the horizon of existence, and the darkness was changed into light; the Sun of Guidance dawned in the horizon of heaven, whereby the eyes which were looking unto the Kingdom of God were illuminated, the breasts which were filled with God’s love were dilated, and the heavenly spirits were attracted by the magnet of the Holy Spirit, so that the hearts became as pure mirrors reflecting the godlike appearances and manifesting the heavenly lights – except the eyes which were in the veil of imitation of the forefathers (i. e., those who followed the theories of their fathers) were hindered from or veiled from witnessing that brilliant and godlike illumination, and the people held to the superstitions of the Pharisees and neglected the mystery of God and the glad-tidings (recorded) in the Holy Scriptures, which elucidated the appearance of the Lord of Hosts in the promised day.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha v1, p. 134

Oneness of God… oneness of mankind and oneness of the spiritual truth of the great religions are the watch words.

 

[mum_of_three]

Posted by arthra
Oneness of God… oneness of mankind and oneness of the spiritual truth of the great religions are the watch words.

which are the ‘Great religions’?

On another note…
Ive been reading more of the quran and speaking to some friends who are Muslim, and the general concensus is Islam is not up for interpretation, a point i disagree on btw, but instead most muslims i know kind of follow it and believe just because thats what it says in the quran and sunnah, without seeking any kind of truth in it. To me, thats just madness and i found in asking questions i went round and round in circles as if i stated something id seen in the bible, its flawed yet when they quote the bible in reference to muhammad, and point out that they said its flawed, they say just certain bits and the when i mentioned that there are also flaws in the quran, either they said its bcause of translation, or just told me i should never question the quran or allah. Its very hard to find answers.
Would i be correct in thinking that the baha’i faith calls on its adherents to actively seek truths? And if so, is there a preferred methodology? Would it be encouraged to use historical books or just what religious texts say?
Sorry for all the questions

 

[arthra]

Mum,

Thanks again for your questions… I’ve made your questions into italics and responded below…

Mum asked:

*Would i be correct in thinking that the baha’i faith calls on its adherents to actively seek truths? And if so, is there a preferred methodology? *

We have a principle called “Independent Investigation of Truth” and it goes like this:

"Discover for yourselves the reality of things, and strive to assimilate the methods by which noble-mindedness and glory are attained among the nations and people of the world.

No man should follow blindly his ancestors and forefathers. Nay, each must see with his own eyes, hear with his own ears and investigate independently in order that he may find the truth. The religion of forefathers and ancestors is based upon blind imitation. Man should investigate reality."

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 24

Mum asked:

*Would it be encouraged to use historical books or just what religious texts say? *

That’s an excellent question I think we value both…that is historical records and scriptures. There’s a lot of historical material on or about the Baha’i Faith… as you go back in time of course the records tend to be more difficult to obtain. What we value most are directly revealed texts. Hearsay and Hadith traditions are valued less by us.

Mum asked:

*which are the ‘Great religions’? *

Baha’is recognise the Founders of the extant religions and some that are noteworthy…such as Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah. We’re not saying these are the only Manifestations but these are the only Ones we know about from our Writings. So the religions would be Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha’i Faith.

 

[dzheremi]

The quote tags are really easy to use, everybody. The button that looks like this http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/editor/quote.gif wraps tags that say “quote” around highlighted material (click and hold down the mouse button and drag it across the text you want to highlight, releasing the button at the end when you’re done; the text should be white against a blue highlight background, in most displays). This makes a quote that looks like

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Any reply that you make by using the “quote” button that is on bottom right hand corner of every post (this: http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/quote.gif) should already be in quotes, eliminating the need to do the above unless you want to break up that block quote into smaller portions, by simply doing the steps outlined above within the block quote as you see fit.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

I have always found the Baha’i i faith interesting. I know their faith began in Iran though I didn’t know any were still there. Their leader was persecuted there and I never thought that religion would survive there. While I have no trouble or any problem whatsoever with Baha’i, I could never understand how this faith functions. The religion closest to it would probably be Hinduism, which has been embracing new theologies for thousands of years. I like their idea that all the great religious leaders like Muhammad, Buddha, Moses, etc. are all equally divinely inspired by God. However, as a Christian of course I reject this but I hope our Baha’i visiters to this site feel welcome. Peace be with you Baha’i brethren (spiritual) and welcome.

 

[arthra]

I have always found the Baha’i i faith interesting. I know their faith began in Iran though **I didn’t know any were still there. **

Their leader was persecuted there and I never thought that religion would survive there.

While I have no trouble or any problem whatsoever with Baha’i, I could never understand how this faith functions.

The religion closest to it would probably be Hinduism, which has been embracing new theologies for thousands of years.

I like their idea that all the great religious leaders like Muhammad, Buddha, Moses, etc. are all equally divinely inspired by God. However, as a Christian of course I reject this but I hope our Baha’i visiters to this site feel welcome. Peace be with you Baha’i brethren (spiritual) and welcome.

Thanks for your post Centrist! and the warm welcome!

There are an estimated 300,000 Baha’is in Iran … the largest minority religion in the country…and yes they are persecuted, imprisoned and denied basic rights.

The functioning of the Faith is really very simple… On the local level per each jurisdiction is elected annually a Local Spiritual Assembly… Every year a unit convention is held and delegates are sent to a National Convention that elects a National Spiritual Assembly. Every five years reps from the National Assemblies convene at the Baha’i World Centre in Haifa, Israel and elect the Universal House of Justice.

While more Baha’is live in India and we have the well known Lotus Temple there our “theology” is basically determined by what was revealed by Baha’u’llah… so we do not anticipate any major changes in that until the next Manifestation appears over nine hundred years from now.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Do you anticipate the next manifestation will contradict what you have now? If not, then do you expect Bahai will one day be corrupted like all of the revealed religions?

 

[arthra]

Centuries, nay, countless ages, must pass away ere the Day-Star of Truth shineth again in its mid-summer splendor, or appeareth once more in the radiance of its vernal glory… Concerning the Manifestations that will come down in the future “in the shadows of the clouds,” know, verily, that in so far as their relation to the Source of their inspiration is concerned, they are under the shadow of the Ancient Beauty. In their relation, however, to the age in which they appear, each and every one of them “doeth whatsoever He willeth.”

~ 'Abdu’l-Bahá, cited in “The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh - Selected Letters”, p. 167

 

[J_the_Centrist]

Thanks for your post Centrist! and the warm welcome!

There are an estimated 300,000 Baha’is in Iran … the largest minority religion in the country…and yes they are persecuted, imprisoned and denied basic rights.

The functioning of the Faith is really very simple… On the local level per each jurisdiction is elected annually a Local Spiritual Assembly… Every year a unit convention is held and delegates are sent to a National Convention that elects a National Spiritual Assembly. Every five years reps from the National Assemblies convene at the Baha’i World Centre in Haifa, Israel and elect the Universal House of Justice.

While more Baha’is live in India and we have the well known Lotus Temple there our “theology” is basically determined by what was revealed by Baha’u’llah… so we do not anticipate any major changes in that until the next Manifestation appears over nine hundred years from now.

Thanks for clearing that up, there is so much er can learn from one another if we just peacefully and respectfully exchange ideas. Judging the length of time you have been a member here, it should be you welcoming me. Peace be with you.

 

[daler]

Thanks for clearing that up, there is so much er can learn from one another if we just peacefully and respectfully exchange ideas. Judging the length of time you have been a member here, it should be you welcoming me. Peace be with you.

The teaching of the Baha’i Faith with regards to interfaith gatherings of any kind is this:

"More than a century ago, Bahá’u’lláh told Bahá’ís to “Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.” Bahá’u’lláh’s teachings on religious unity are clear and unambiguous: religion is one, all religions spring from the same Divine Source.

I think what a wonderful thing it would be to have world family reunion, inclusive of every nation, race, religion in a spirit of friendliness and concord, viewing all of Gods creatures as equal, with special recognition of the diversity of humanity in all its artistic, cultural contributions expressing their love of God and eachother. the One Fold, One Shepherd

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The teaching of the Baha’i Faith with regards to interfaith gatherings of any kind is this:

You speak about unity in diversity but ultimately bahai demand belief in their peculiar doctrines which reject core teachings of Christianity. That being said bahai and Christianity are not one.

Christianity says death has been defeated and bahai says that death will reign forever and is a friend of God. Christianity says that only God is eternal, bahai says his manifestations are eternal non God entitites which perfectly mirror him except in substance. Christianity says God became man so that man may become god (theosis) and bahai says Plato was right when he spoke of a spiritual existence as the only true existence.

 

[daler]

You speak about unity in diversity but ultimately bahai demand belief in their peculiar doctrines which reject core teachings of Christianity. That being said bahai and Christianity are not one.

Dear friend, as one who began life as a Christian, my faith in Christ has been exponentially increased since becoming a Baha’i in 1980. Nothing was lost, but rather so much was gained that would not know where to begin.
That some of the interpretations from the Bible are interpreted metaphorically, rather than literally, makes sense to the rational mind: ie, “Let the dead bury the dead.” for the dead (physically) do not get up and bury the dead. Rather, Baha’is believe that Jesus was referring in this instance to letting the job of burial of the young man’s father fall to those who were spiritually dead, and had nothing else to do, whereas the young man should remain with Him Who is the Source of life eternal.

I don’t know where you get this, that “death will reign forever and is a friend of God”. I think you might be referring to one of the Hidden Words of Baha’u’llah, which says:
“I have made death a messenger of joy to thee. Wherefore dost thou grieve? I made the light to shed on thee its splendor. Why dost thou veil thyself therefrom?”
This is a comfort to the grief laden heart, to assure them that the soul of their loved one lives, in heaven, with God eternally, and yes, of course God is eternal, and so are those Manifestations of God Who reflect to us mortals the Divine Attributes of God, by which means we attain immortal life from “This is the bread that comes down from heaven.”

The Baha’i understanding of the Sonship of Jesus is this: That He Who said, “The Father is greater than I.” and, John 12:49 “For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.” is like the light of the sun in a mirror. In one sense, yes, you can point to the mirror and say: “I see the sun.” even as Jesus said, “He who hath seen me hath seen the Father.”
But in the other sense, the sun remains in the sky and does not descend into the mirror, “The Father is greater than I.”

Referring to Plato, I cannot say, other than to affirm that our physical, mortal frame, is temporary. “Flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.” and “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.”

Thank you for your patience and understanding