Bahá'u'lláh

[kashef_0909]

BHTech and Mickey… your writings proove that you actually have no intention to know the truth. You have intentions to mislead, harm and accuse. Your language have shown lowliness. You attitudes have been the most disappointing. You have only kept on saying the same thing, even after a good response was provided to you. For sources of such kind of reaction, I have no opinion or words anymore. From here on, I Pray: God, My Lord, You are a witness … in this day and age, I have sent them your messege. And from here onwards, the matter is in Your Supreme Judgement.

In this, I have nothing against you. As the Religion is not mine, it is of God. When you say something about the Religion and Baha’u’llah, it is a matter between you and God. I will politely move away now.

One last thing. Regarding the teaching of the Priests/Scholars etc of the Roman Catholic Church:

Read this,

Matthew Chapter 23, Verse 8-10
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called teachers: for one is your Teacher, even Christ.

And in many places, Christ have called Himself not only the Son of God or Son of Man … but also He have called himself the Highest Priest. And also, that only the decendents of Abraham and Levi are heirs of that title.

The title ‘Father’ thus can only be given to God in Christianity. The only teacher of the writings of Christ can be He Himself. His Spirit, which have shown itself again in The Bab. The Glorious Spirit of God, which was The Manifestation of God Baha’u’llah.

You said “Christianity is 1800 years older than Baha’i Faith” … exactly what I was saying aswell BHTech. It is 1800 years behind. Older is behind, ahead is the future.

We follow the writings of Baha’u’llah, and his authorized exempler, Abdul Baha. This is, we are following what Christ and all Manifestations of God has asked human to do … we are following the ‘Teacher’.

And then, as you said… you are here only ‘To take Apart’. I can understand that now clearly (thank you for your clarification). We Baha’is believe in joining hearts. We believe in unity and peace. Now I know on the basis of which belief you are involved in this discussion. It is disrespectful for the very words of Holiness, of all the Holiness whose names have been mentioned here … for me to be involved in this discussion with such a heart.

Improve and sanctify your heart. Only then can God reside there. Let the Light in. And that you can do my opening the doors.

Kashef.

 

[Mickey]

BHTech and Mickey… your writings proove that you actually have no intention to know the truth.

Our writings show that we defend the truth.

You have intentions to mislead, harm and accuse.

The only thing here that is misleading, harmful, and accusatory, is the Bahai faith.

Your language have shown lowliness.

I’m sorry you feel that way.

You attitudes have been the most disappointing.

I surmise that you are disappointed because we do not agree with your false teachings.

I have no opinion or words anymore.

Go in peace.

 

[kashef_0909]

For anyone who touches this thread. I request to read the discussion all over. See why I say what I am saying.

 

[Mickey]

For anyone who touches this thread. I request to read the discussion all over. See why I say what I am saying.

Absolutely!

 

[BHTech]

Art said;

BHTech and Mickey… your writings proove that you actually have no intention to know the truth. You have intentions to mislead, harm and accuse.

The same could be said of you friend, for you have chosen to reinterpret what has been already explained, what history testifies to, all to your spiritual detriment.

You have only kept on saying the same thing, even after a good response was provided to you.

Because truth does not change friend.

You said “Christianity is 1800 years older than Baha’i Faith” … exactly what I was saying aswell BHTech. It is 1800 years behind. Older is behind, ahead is the future.

That sure sounds gnostic!

Matt 24: 4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.”

Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Bhaullah, X, Y and Z all said they were the last of God’s prophets after Jesus Christ. Note I never said they were Christs! Strange how they were all born at different times in history.

And then, as you said… you are here only ‘To take Apart’.

I said unless you want me to take apart your Holy Books then I will look at them. Why do you object? If what you claim is true then you should have nothing to worry about.

Improve and sanctify your heart. Only then can God reside there. Let the Light in. And that you can do my opening the doors.

Peace be with you as well friend, but I prefer Eucharistic adoration to accomplish that. But do look at it from my point of view. You are blaspheming my Lord in denying the things he said and his Holy Church he left us, and while he doesn’t need me to defend him, others reading your writings of a weaker Christian faith may be easily swayed by your message of peace and love. By the way Jesus said he came to divide. To separate the sheep from the goats.

Blessings

BHTech

 

[BHTech]

Bruce said,

By that logic we should all become Hindus (or maybe Sabaeans)!

Then why are you Hindu?

Nor, I fear, am I much impressed by your enthusiastic advocacy of what one or more committees cooked up centuries after Christ

FALSE! From St. Ignatius of Antioch (disciple of St. John the evangelist for 20 years) writing in the year 106AD to the Smyrnaeans on his way to Rome to be martyred!

Epistle to Smyrnaeans, Chapter 5

Let no man deceive himself. Unless he believes that Christ Jesus has lived in the flesh, and shall confess His cross and passion, and the blood which He shed for the salvation of the world, he shall not obtain eternal life, whether he be a king, or a priest, or a ruler, or a private person, a master or a servant, a man or a woman. “He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Epistle to Smyrnaeans, Chapter 6

They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that ye should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.

There is a whole lot more of that where it came from.

Nor do we have gurus (or any other hierarchy). Wrong number. Everyone is “just a Baha’i.”

Perhaps you meant wrong religion and not “wrong number”!

Humans–ALL humans–are very good at being mistaken.

That is very true Bruce, and it goes both ways.

Given that we see our Revelation as God-sent (and hence correct), we’ll endeavor to follow it, thank you.

By all means follow it, but as I repeatedly point out to you and many others that are not Bahai, they likewise see their religion and I quote “our Revelation as God-sent (and hence correct),”. All however cannot be correct. Only one is right.

And I wish you all the best on your path!

Peace,

Bruce

Thank you and peace be with you.

Blessings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

BHTech

 

[BruceDLimber]

False. You are Bahai because . . . . Further you . . .

Ah, so YOU know my mind and intentions better than I do?!!

Kindly see below.

]quote]You said “Nor did Pentecost fulfill Jesus’ prophecy”. We say it did. Those are contradictory beliefs.

Quite so.

But WHICH one is right is key, which we happily stipulate.

You will forgive me, I trust, if I follow MY conscience rather than yours!

The primary difference here is that you rush to condemn us at every excuse!

(Whatever happened to “Judge not?!”)

We don’t stoop to such actions, which in fact our scriptures specifically forbid.

Like it or not, I find the Baha’i approach–let alone its teachings–far more appropriate and acceptable than the put-downs. (Ever hear of catching flies with honey?)

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Mickey]

Like it or not, I find the Baha’i approach–let alone its teachings–far more appropriate and acceptable than the put-downs.

Like it or not, it is the Bahai approach–and its teachings-- that are anti-Christian.

Six reasons why the bahai faith is anti-Christian:

---

1. It lowered Christianity to the same level as other religions.
2. The Baha’i Faith claimed to supersede Christianity with a new revelation.
3. The Baha’i Faith dethroned Christ and saw him as one manifestation of God among many.
4. It assumed falsely that Baha’u’llah is Christ returned.
5. It argued that biblical prophecies were fulfilled by Baha’u’llah and 'Abdu’l-Baha.
6. It denied Christ’s miracles and his bodily resurrection.

 

[BruceDLimber]

"Bruce:

By that logic we should all become Hindus (or maybe Sabaeans)!

Then why are you Hindu?

Non sequitur.

I’m not, and I was referring to YOUR statement, which was implying that older was inherently better.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[kashef_0909]

Art said;

The same could be said of you friend, for you have chosen to reinterpret what has been already explained, what history testifies to, all to your spiritual detriment.

BHTech

Read my post. There is no authority given by Christ to anyone to explain his writings. Whatever explanation needed, Jesus has done it Himself. Or left it for the End Times, the explanation which Only The Heavenly Father Knows, and will be Manifest (which we believe is now). There are 20,780 Churches (Denominations) in Christianity. Which Church are you taking about then? The Roman Catholicism? … Because you are the follower of it? … your pen is better then your friends pen … is this your (shool boy) theory? Wake up, do not be computerized … if you have eyes, use them to see and understand what is logical. Read what I wrote, see where I am writing illogical. You will be able to see clearly only if you are not computerized.

You said: “There is absolutely NO need to try understand your scriptures unless I wish to further take it apart.” … perhaps you love to forget what you have said yourself. Taking apart is not a respectful way of looking at a Holy Book.

You have repeatedly, disrespectfully, misspelled the name of the founder of an Independent Religion which preaches peace, love and harmony. Whose adherents are on a peaceful discussion with you. Whose adherents have put their reasons forward. And you so lowly try to insult their feelings! Learn to respect.

Yes, truth does not change, no matter how much blind the scribes and the Pharisees were. No matter how blindly an unbeliever throws the same stones, by their same hands, on the people of Baha.

The Bab did not come by the name of Christ. He was ‘The Bab’, which means “The Gate”. Christ have actually said, in chapter 21 Matthew (where you are quoting this from), that many will deceive people in the End Times by using his name. As we can see, who use his name… as we Baha’is clearly dont. We are Baha’is (not Christ-ians). The Spirit of the Massiah was in The Bab (The Bab is the return of this Spirit. He is not Christ himself … but the actual fulfilment of His Promise to Mankind).

Take a look at our Holy Books and the writings of Abdul Baha with a clean and pure heart. Or it will be like a blind looking at the sun.

I have looked at it from your point of view. That is why I provided you a link: bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/if-you.htm

Whats your problem with reading it? Its not very big… just go ahead and read it, keep with you a Bible to look and check along! What is not threatning in reading a couple of pages that can give you insight, or provide some info!

Every Manifestation seperate the Sheep from the Goats. So does Baha’u’llah.

 

[BHTech]

Ah, so YOU know my mind and intentions better than I do?!!

You presume this.

BHtech said

You said “Nor did Pentecost fulfill Jesus’ prophecy”. We say it did. Those are contradictory beliefs.

Bruce said

Quite so. But WHICH one is right is key, which we happily stipulate.

Hmmm… I recall you said that Christianity and Bahai are not in contradiction.

You will forgive me, I trust, if I follow MY conscience rather than yours!

Your conscience belongs to you Bruce and to no one else.

The primary difference here is that you rush to condemn us at every excuse! (Whatever happened to “Judge not?!”)

Not really. You condemn yourself by not believing the truth in the first place and insisting like X, Y, and Z religious founders that you are all right.

We don’t stoop to such actions, which in fact our scriptures specifically forbid.

Bahais are incapable of sinning?

Like it or not, I find the Baha’i approach–let alone its teachings–far more appropriate and acceptable than the put-downs. (Ever hear of catching flies with honey?)

No probs with that Bruce. I respect your belief and opinion. I wish to establish however, that Christianity and Bahai are simply incompatible and contradict each other.

Blessings

BHTech

 

[kashef_0909]

First about the term ‘Anti-Christ’:

This may be a surprise to many, but these quotes below are the only references in the New Testament to the antichrist. A careful look reveals that these verses don’t talk about a specific Evil Individual or Entity, but rather calls an antichrist anybody (and all) who deny the divine origin of the Christ Spirit and His Message:

1 John Chapter2, Verse 18-23
”Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”

1 John Chapter4, Verse 1-3
”Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. “

2 John Chapter1, Verse 7
”For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”

Therefore, anyone who violently and determinedly sought to oppose the Manifestation could be called an “Anti-Christ,” such as the Vazír in the Báb’s day, Hájí Mírzá Aqásí.

’Christ’ is a Greek word for ‘Annointed One’ which also in means ‘Saviour/Messiah’. This word in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic has always been associated with the Manifestation of God. Which means, the Anti-Christ is but the Anti-Massiah, which is the Anti-Saviour, which in turn is the Anti-Manifestation of God.

As per Aramaic (which was the Native Language of Jesus, in which he spake), Jesus would be called in those time: Isa Mas’ih (Jesus Christ). Aramaic is the predecessor of modern day Arabic (refer for more detailed, and of course, independent investigation).
About the million people advancing into heaven… read closely my previous postings and you will find the answer. These are the people who are believers. The faith in Him is heaven. And yes, there are millions of Baha’is, and growing.

And about your accusation about Baha’i Faith being Anti-Christian:

1. It has raised the flag of equality and humanity. Fulfilled All, Each And Everyone of the Prophecies of Christ (Please refer to the Baha’i Apologetics thread). It has declared that all religion are equal, which is in not way contradictory to Christianity and the Bible.
2. The new revelation is in no manner contradictory to Christian Revelations. Please refer to the Bible … you will find no contradiction. And refer to the other posts in this same thread, in which we have described how all the True Religion is one from the One and Same God. Growing according to the current needs of human society.
3. The Baha’i Faith recognises the Title of Christ. It recognises His Divine Station. His station, and His sayings, the Saying of God Himself. And so was Baha’u’llah, and all the Revealer of the Holy Book of Devine Laws of God. Mistaking a Manifestation of God with a Prophet (e.g. His Holiness Daniel The Prophet), is unfortunate. Christ was the only Son of God … His Title for His Age. As Moses was the one who Conversed With God. Abraham as the Friend of God … The Bab as The Gate of God … Baha’u’llah as the Glory of God Himself. All are one, in unity, the same.
4. Baha’u’llah is not the Return of Christ. He is the Glory of the Heavenly Father Himself. The Bab was the return of the essence of Christ (Messiah). Who, in this particular Age, have been the Gate for the Glory of His Heavenly Father.
5. Biblical Prophecies have been fulfilled by The Bab and Baha’u’llah. You need to refer to records present here of a discussion already.
6. Refer to Baha’i Discussions/Apologetics thread for this number.

I did not want to discuss it with you. But as I can see, you feel to grasp an opportunity to capitalise on the absense of a Baha’i Voice. However, if be it, throw as much stones as you have in your bag. I will be here, to bear them all.

 

[BHTech]

Non sequitur.

I’m not, and I was referring to YOUR statement, which was implying that older was inherently better.

Peace,

Bruce

I did not say older was better, but merely pointed out that Christianity has had 2000 years to ponder on the mysteries of Jesus, the Bible and his church.

Blessings

BHTech

 

[kashef_0909]

But have some sense. I have repeatedly given you the links. Read them. See the discussion in Baha’i Discussions/Apologetics thread, there we discussed the Prophecies and Trinity and also many more issues. If you want to know the Baha’i theological statments, you can find some clue there. And I have given links to USA Bahai Headquarters and state and regional headquarter addresses. USA has one of the worlds largest number of Baha’is, rich libraries. You will get information there too!

The Baha’is will discuss with the Christians on the basis of Bible and our scripture and teachings of our Teacher! As it is the rightful way (as also confirmed by Jesus and all the other Manifestations in the Books. The confirmation of Jesus have been quoted by me in here).

This answer is not for a couple of people… but for the eyes which fall here, and those who can see.

Thank you…

Kashef.

 

[kashef_0909]

I did not say older was better, but merely pointed out that Christianity has had 2000 years to ponder on the mysteries of Jesus, the Bible and his church.

Blessings

BHTech

The Jews had more.

 

[BHTech]

Read my post. There is no authority given by Christ to anyone to explain his writings. Whatever explanation needed, Jesus has done it Himself.

Partially true and by the same token no one gave the Bahais the authority to reinterpret Biblical scriptures which the Roman Catholic church put together. At least the successors to the apostles can claim to have known the apostles and hence pass on the faith. You have no such claims.

There are 20,780 Churches (Denominations) in Christianity. Which Church are you taking about then? The Roman Catholicism?

Yes but whose fault is it that there are many Christian denominations?

You will be able to see clearly only if you are not computerized.

Please that is a straw man argument.

Taking apart is not a respectful way of looking at a Holy Book.

But your book is not Holy at least not in the mind of the Christian.

Whose adherents are on a peaceful discussion with you. Whose adherents have put their reasons forward. And you so lowly try to insult their feelings! Learn to respect.

I mean you disrespect but only to speak the truth.

The Spirit of the Massiah was in The Bab (The Bab is the return of this Spirit. He is not Christ himself … but the actual fulfilment of His Promise to Mankind).

I disagree.

Take a look at our Holy Books and the writings of Abdul Baha with a clean and pure heart.
bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/if-you.htm

Whats your problem with reading it? Its not very big… just go ahead and read it, keep with you a Bible to look and check along! What is not threatning in reading a couple of pages that can give you insight, or provide some info!

Actually I read the site you spoke about perhaps 1 year ago in a dialog with a Bahai friend of mine. I find it to be false and totally misleading. It contains elements of truth, but is that is where it stops.

Blessings

BHtech

 

[BHTech]

The Jews had more.

Yes and we have their book (Old Testament) and the New Testament which makes the Bible. We did not throw away their book like you and the Muslims to come up with a new and separate book!

Blessings

BHTech

 

[BHTech]

But have some sense. I have repeatedly given you the links. Read them.

I told you or someone earlier on that I have read them and they are false. No point in re-reading them.

USA has one of the worlds largest number of Baha’is, rich libraries. You will get information there too!

No thank you.

blessing

BHTech

 

[kashef_0909]

The same Devinity whose authority Christ had to pur forward the New Testment. Baha’u’llah had the same authority. If yuo do not agree, even when valid responses have been presented, it just makes it all the more easier to understand why the Jews still disagree with Christ. And ofcourse, that link I provided was for an special article. I do not know which parts you have read, but I wanted your response on that ESPECIAL ARTICLE which was in that specific link. I wanted you comments on it… which you so tactically avoid.

The successors of Baha’u’llah … authorized in writing by Baha’u’llah. Chosen by Him for such specific tasks … to be more clear, Abdul Baha! Here is the DEVINE authority (not self assumed). With Baha’u’llah as the Manifestation of God. As The Bab, and Baha’u’llah fulfills the prophecies of all the past (I have given you reference many times of the discussion here, Baha’i discussions/Apologetics).

I have not given fault to anyone for any situation of any Religion. I just pointed out a fact. Look, take guidance from the Teacher! The Teacher for you is Christ! … read him with an open mind. Read our Scripture with an open mind too! Keep your ways free, if there is truth it will prosper (as it is prospering!). So, just go through it. It is a HUGE claim by Baha’u’llah, which we believe to be true…and many friends in the west…from Scholars to Philosophers, To Bishops, To ordinary day to day men and women!

Being computerized means that you have only ‘one thing’ pre-arranged in mind. That is to disagree, no matter how much truth is put forward. In this thread itself this have been re-asserted couple of times by posters, that no matter what, they are here to just plainly disagree and only to deny. This is called a computerized mindset. Programmed for a specific action.

Our Book is Holy to us. It is Holy to those Christians who are now Baha’is. The mind which denies, only to them it is not Holy. And this has been the way since Ancient Times… nothing new.

You disrespect me only to speak the truth? This is a very unfortunate comment. If you would disrespect me, I would not have been so grieved, but when you go as low as to hurt a Religious sentiment by misspelling in unhealthy manners the name of their Founder, this is a great disrespect. We Baha’is are not violent, and would just silently move away with disgust in such an occassion. But I would like to ask you to practice the art of respect. Here you are in discussion with the adherents of a peaceful Religion. No matter what is your mindset, the charecter of a civilised human being should be practiced by you at all moments.

We have not thrown away the previous Books. We Baha’is are encouraged to read them. We just did not ask the Book Binder to bind them all in one copy … that will make it an impossible Book to carry around .

Every true Holy Book is the fulfillment of its previous Revelation. There is only one God who can send Revelation and Religion. Time to time, every Age.

Read with courage BHTech … there are enough computers … Baha’is believe in the richness of the human brain!

 

[kashef_0909]

Not only the Baha’is are greatly called to read the earlier Revelations, but also we read them in the manner they have been written infact.

Ponder here. Go to a Jew Rabbi, ask him if he calls his Holy Book ‘The Old Testament’. He definately does not. The name of the Book of the Jews is ‘The Holy Torah’. Christ did not call it the ‘Old Testament’, but his Revelation was filfilling the older Revelations, so the name is derived by early Christians as that. The books that Christians call the New Testament are not part of Jewish scripture (for similar reasons to those which repell the fact of the Holy Book of Baha’is, do make your own study).

We as Baha’is, call the Books by their respective names given to them by their Adherents/Revealers. We do not need to change them. And as mentioned before, it is not possible to bind all of them into one book. Even if we do it, it will be an impossible thing to carry aroud, will wear and tear…or remain as a showpiece. There are alot of earlier Books, and many volumes Revealed by Baha’u’llah Himself. We can keep them together in a shelf, side by side, and read… simple…