G
GaryTaylor
Guest
I’m sorry we crossed posts. Servant your like luminosity in the early AM. I love your mind!!!My apologies I failed in conveying my thoughts to you
God bless you, and I love you too Gary
.
Baha'i: Jesus Claims to be God (and how do you respond to those claims?)
- Status
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
Perhaps, but I am trying to give you my undivided attention.
I hope to get some response from you regarding post #96.
Thanks.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vatican.va%2Fholy_father%2Fbenedict_xvi%2Faudiences%2F2007%2Fdocuments%2Fhf_ben-xvi_aud_20070425_en.html&ei=g–GVL2bDoWjNq32gSg&usg=AFQjCNHJ2ZQVy_RL_UiIBeUH5EbjUjlwZg
BTW since his period came the Creed, which is an outline of the mysteries within the Gospel. It serves many purposes, as a profession of faith and gateway to the mass who may be of many levels of intellect.
H
hasantas
Guest
None.
Jesus was not lunatic, liar or Lord. Jesus was a % 100 trusty and wise humanbeing and a prophet. There is no a verse in Bible which view Jesus directly said that He is Son of God. That are all argues from analogy which made by Christians.
Jesus never sait to be Son of God. Forexample John 1:1. Is that Word Jesus? Can not that be understood in a different way? There may be very different interpretations. Or ıs Bible original as ıt was written initially? There are many problems.
S
Servant19
Guest
My apologies if I have missed something along the way. As you can see I am addresssing a LOT of points…Perhaps, but I am trying to give you my undivided attention.
I hope to get some response from you regarding post #96.
Thanks.
I will have a good look at that post tomorrow
.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
That would be fine if the implicit understanding of scripture couldn’t be explicitly known, since the scriptures were written through the Spirit of God, Thus they have not only the meaning which seems apparent but another which escapes most because of divine revelation. The words written are the forms of the mysteries and images of the Divine of the Church since the scripture is of the Church deposited within the Church. In this matter the opinion of the entire orthodox Church is one, that the whole law is spiritual, the spiritual law conveyed however, is not known by all.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
Why did the Jews pick up rocks with which to stone Jesus after he said, “I AM” (which is the name of God in the Hebrew Scriptures)?
No, it can’t.
- Jesus is the Word. (Jn 1:14)
- The Word was God. (Jn 1:1)
- Therefore, Jesus is God.
It’s true. Scripture records that Jesus inherited the throne of His forefather, David. But the queens of Israel and Judah were not the wives of the kings (since they had lots of wives); instead, the queens were the mothers of the kings since each king only had one mother. Thus, the Miriam of the Qu’ran is actually Queen of Heaven reigning with her Son, Jesus.
But please note, Mary is human, not divine. Even as Queen, she is not part of the Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Only Jesus is fully human AND divine.
Yes, and it is a common misunderstanding among Muslims that the text of the Bible is corrupted. This is just an excuse used to dismiss the claims of Christianity, but it is a weak argument. Proof is available if you are actually interested.
No, my friend. There are only excuses used by those who seek to promote another prophet and another religion.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
I do understand how non-Catholics can get swarmed. I’m doing my best to keep the thread focused, but a crowd seems to have gathered.My apologies if I have missed something along the way. As you can see I am addresssing a LOT of points…
I will have a good look at that post tomorrow
.
H
hasantas
Guest
Bible was revealed to Jesus totally at once. That occured through Spirit(Gabriel) and Jesus conveyed Bible during His life. After about 60 years later saints wrote Gospels. So writting of Gospels by saints is not a divine action. We have not the original texts and there maybe misinterpretations because Gospels were translated for many times.
Quran is revelation directly from God but although Quran can be understood in many ways by people and some of these ways could be wrong. We have many examples in the past and now. So Holy tradition may not be so holy! And that spiritual laws maybe not so spiritual. There have been many wrong things in Church. If God have been leading Church in every manner than there would not be so bad things. A faith was not deposited in Church truely but a faith have been raised in Church(that Trinity doctrine).
The most extremely issue cannot be a mystery! If Jesus were Son of God there should be many obvious proofs.
H
hasantas
Guest
Jews have killed many prophets. When a prophet asserted to be sent by God unbelievers did bad things. Jesus said that “I am sent by God” , “I am prophet of God on the world” … Many pagans pick up stones for Muhammed when He claimed to be prophet. Muhammed was in wounds and bruises.Randy Carson; [QUOTE said:
Jesus is word of God(Kelimetullah) and Spirit of God(Ruhullah). But Christians interpret this in a wrong way. They assume an other God as word or Son and the other as Holy Spirit. Interesting! There are some reason for Jesus to be called as word of God. The word was from(sent by) God and the words which came out from mouth of Jesus were words from God.
Mary is the Queen of Heaven and we are very pleased with that.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Matthew - And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18"Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. 19"Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.
"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Church, priesthood, Holy Spirit, and apostolic succession. Bible is revealed as mentioned above in the link and is part of the Church.
H
hasantas
Guest
Which Gospel is original? Are all Gospels same? What happened at First Council of Nicaea?
H
hasantas
Guest
T
Techno2000
Guest
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
The Church discerned the four Gospels through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Jesus as never wrote a word. Jesus left a Church which the apostles established guided by the Holy Spirit. Before anything was the liturgy and mass, of which
The Catholic Church gave us the version of which is still read and inspired by the Holy Spirit today.
The Council reaffirmed the Church belief and rejected the false teaching of the heretics.
How did we come to the Quran, Mohammed never wrote a word either and wasn’t there to finally construct the Quran, So how did this occur without Mohammed?
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
True. However, on this occasion, the passage reveals more than that:
John 8:54-59
54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!” 58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
In the Book of Exodus:
Exodus 3:4
4 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘**I am **has sent me to you.’”
I AM is God’s name, and Jesus used it for himself.
Now, how could Jesus claim to be “before” Abraham if he were a mere man sent by God?
But before we waste too much of each other’s time, I should ask: Have you read about the Trinity (and rejected it), or are you unfamiliar with what Christians believe about the One God-Three Persons?
No. You are mistaken. Christians do not believe another God is the Son and another God is the Spirit. We believe there is only One God. Within the interior life of that One God are Three Persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
This is true on two levels. First because Jesus was fully man, He was sent by God to proclaim the Good News to the Jews. Second, because Jesus is fully God, He “proceeds from the Father” in the interior life of the God.
Probably a lot for a Muslim to grasp if this is your first time hearing this.
:clapping:
In our scriptures, Mary and Jesus were attending a wedding when the host ran out of wine. Mary said to some servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” Jesus changed some water into wine, the first of His public miracles performed at her request - the last words she spoke in our sacred texts.
We, too, would be wise to her instruction, hasantas. “Do whatever He tells you.”
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
Matthew, Mark and Luke were all written before AD 70 when the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. John was written about AD 95.
Because much of the material is the same in Matthew and Mark as well as in Mark and Luke, it is difficult to tell who may have borrowed from who.
Knowing how the Synoptic Gospels were composed can help shed light on particular passages, but it is not necessary for a basic understanding of Jesus and his message. From a faith perspective, the Gospels are inspired by the Holy Spirit and are reliable records of Jesus’ life and teachings.
No. And this is a GOOD thing. The differences actually enhance the credibility of the story of Jesus.
Among other things, the Council formulated the Nicene Creed or statement of belief generally held by all Christians to this day. That Creed included the Trinitarian formula for our understanding of God. This was important, and here’s why:
For centuries all mankind believed that the earth was flat and that the sun, planets and stars revolved around it. A few centuries ago Galileo, Copernicus and other astronomers began proclaiming that in fact the earth is round, is suspended in space, and is revolving around the sun.
The theory was denounced (most prominently by the Church!) for the simple reason that throughout history it was common knowledge that the earth was flat and, in any event, common sense could tell anyone that this planet was not moving and that the sky was rotating around us. The idea that we are circling at more than one thousand miles an hour on our own axis daily, are revolving around the sun at tens of thousands of miles an hour, and are spinning through the universe at even phenomenally greater speeds, was to the minds of people of those days entirely irrational. It is only because we have scientific proof that we accept the theory today but it is still very hard to comprehend.
God’s nature, however, cannot be scientifically proved. He may, however, turn out to be very opposite to what people naturally would expect just as the planetary system has done. Yet the Church discerned the Triune nature of God some fourteen centuries before the truth about our universe was discovered. Why? Simply because God revealed his true nature to us in the scriptures. The Church did not turn God into a Trinity – he was so from all eternity.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Interesting history which further readings through the all the Councils give further insight as does the early Fathers, the Church. Here’s a brief understanding.
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC0QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bible-researcher.com%2Fcatholic-intro.html&ei=XF2HVOLwE5LbggS28YPoDg&usg=AFQjCNGIUlgfTwiCjU2462ZhRsw2WxSnww
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC0QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bible-researcher.com%2Fcatholic-intro.html&ei=XF2HVOLwE5LbggS28YPoDg&usg=AFQjCNGIUlgfTwiCjU2462ZhRsw2WxSnww
T
Tomdstone
Guest
- Status