Baha'i: Jesus Claims to be God (and how do you respond to those claims?)

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The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 1 Timothy 4:1

Randy I’m embarrassed to say this is the first time I seeing this, I could have used it earlier .🙂
Apparently, you are not alone. 😉
 
Indeed, the essential prerequisites of admittance into the Bahá’í fold of Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, and the followers of other ancient faiths, as well as of agnostics and even atheists, is the wholehearted and unqualified acceptance by them all of the divine origin of both Islám and Christianity, of the Prophetic functions of both Muḥammad and Jesus Christ, of the legitimacy of the institution of the Imamate, and of the primacy of St. Peter, the Prince of the Apostles. Such are the central, the solid, the incontrovertible principles that constitute the bedrock of Bahá’í belief, which the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh is proud to acknowledge, which its teachers proclaim, which its apologists defend, which its literature disseminates, which its summer schools expound, and which the rank and file of its followers attest by both word and deed.
Gobbledygook
 
Ha, thats another part the Bible isn’t explicit on, evil and how to contend with it. But the Tradition is different in elaboration, as can be read in the early Church, the Church almost canonized the Apocalypse of Peter. They didn’t want to be overbearing with evil. The first clue is denial of the Divinity of Christ, and a systematic assault on the Cross, Mary and the Incarnation etc. Usually proceeds as such.
 
I’m pretty much done, but your question deserves a response, because the answer makes all the difference in the world:

The Resurrection.

:signofcross:
Didn’t make any difference to Peter.

He had already recognized long before that happened.

🤷
 
A modern day Pharisee word…

🙂

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gob·ble·dy·gook
ˈɡäbəldēˌɡo͞ok/
nouninformal
language that is meaningless or is made unintelligible by excessive use of abstruse technical terms; nonsense.
synonyms: gibberish, claptrap, nonsense, rubbish, balderdash, blather, garbage;
 
gob·ble·dy·gook
ˈɡäbəldēˌɡo͞ok/
nouninformal
language that is meaningless or is made unintelligible by excessive use of abstruse technical terms; nonsense.
synonyms: gibberish, claptrap, nonsense, rubbish, balderdash, blather, garbage;
Like saying Christianity is epistemologically true. Whatever that means.
 
gob·ble·dy·gook
ˈɡäbəldēˌɡo͞ok/
nouninformal
language that is meaningless or is made unintelligible by excessive use of abstruse technical terms; nonsense.
synonyms: gibberish, claptrap, nonsense, rubbish, balderdash, blather, garbage;
I think the Pharisees threw stones at Jesus because they could not really grasp the true meaning of His words, nor the true meaning of their own Scriptures.

I think they told Him “Gobbledygook”, but that word was lost in translation…

😃

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In all seriousness though, what is all this mockery, derision and childsplay?

Really? You cannot hold an intellectual dialogue with members of a Faith who are trying their best to answer your questions as systematically as possible without mocking you or calling you names or calling your religious belief names? So you resort to mockery, sarcasm and denigration?

Is that what Jesus taught?

Is this representative of Jesus’ Faith in this day and age?
I can see so many posts resorting to mockery.

I’m embarrassed … really…

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Ok, give us the writing from Baha’u’llah on Jesus.
There are over five hundred references of what the translated Writings say about Jesus but here a just a few concerning the return of Christ:

Bahá’u’lláh explains that the “coming again” of Christ was fulfilled in the advent of the Báb and in His own coming. He says:—

"Consider the sun. Were it to say now, “I am the sun of yesterday,” it would speak the truth. And should it, bearing the sequence of time in mind, claim to be other than that sun, it still would speak the truth. In like manner, if it be said that all the days are but one and the same, it is correct and true. And if it be said, with respect to their particular names and designations, that they differ, that again is true. For though they are the same, yet one doth recognize in each a separate designation, a specific attribute, a particular character.

“Conceive accordingly the distinction, variation, and unity characteristic of the various Manifestations of holiness, that thou mayest comprehend the allusions made by the creator of all names and attributes to the mysteries of distinction and unity, and discover the answer to thy question as to why that everlasting Beauty should have, at sundry times, called Himself by different names and titles.”

— Kitáb-i-Íqán, 21–22.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá says:—

“Know that the return of Christ for a second time doth not mean what the people believe, but rather signifieth the One promised to come after Him. He shall come with the Kingdom of God and His Power which hath surrounded the world. This dominion is in the world of hearts and spirits, and not in that of matter; for the material world is not comparable to a single wing of a fly, in the sight of the Lord, wert thou of those who know! Verily Christ came with His Kingdom from the beginning which hath no beginning, and will come with His Kingdom to the eternity of eternities, inasmuch as in this sense “Christ” is an expression of the Divine Reality, the simple Essence and heavenly Entity, which hath no beginning nor ending. It hath appearance, arising, manifestation and setting in each of the cycles.”

😉
 
I think the Pharisees threw stones at Jesus because they could not really grasp the true meaning of His words, nor the true meaning of their own Scriptures.

I think they told Him “Gobbledygook”, but that word was lost in translation…

😃

.
Indeed, the essential prerequisites of admittance into the Bahá’í fold of Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, and the followers of other ancient faiths, as well as of agnostics and even atheists, is the wholehearted and unqualified acceptance by them all of the divine origin of both Islám and Christianity, of the Prophetic functions of both Muḥammad and Jesus Christ, of the legitimacy of the institution of the Imamate, and of the primacy of St. Peter, the Prince of the Apostles. Such are the central, the solid, the incontrovertible principles that constitute the bedrock of Bahá’í belief, which the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh is proud to acknowledge, which its teachers proclaim, which its apologists defend, which its literature disseminates, which its summer schools expound, and which the rank and file of its followers attest by both word and deed.

Is this what you say is Baha’u’lláh teachings on Jesus, if it is its very lame Servant19, Baha’u’lláh’s spirit guides try to make their words sound eloquent and sophisticated, but Jesus didn’t have to do that, he did the opposite.These writing look like its saying lot, but the only thing Baha’u’lláh’s spirit guides are saying is that all Religions need to be put in a pot and melted together, the only problem with that is what comes out is…Gobbledygook
 
‘Abdu’l-Bahá says:—

“Know that the return of Christ for a second time doth not mean what the people believe, but rather signifieth the One promised to come after Him. He shall come with the Kingdom of God and His Power which hath surrounded the world. This dominion is in the world of hearts and spirits, and not in that of matter; for the material world is not comparable to a single wing of a fly, in the sight of the Lord, wert thou of those who know! Verily Christ came with His Kingdom from the beginning which hath no beginning, and will come with His Kingdom to the eternity of eternities, inasmuch as in this sense “Christ” is an expression of the Divine Reality, the simple Essence and heavenly Entity, which hath no beginning nor ending. It hath appearance, arising, manifestation and setting in each of the cycles.”

😉
So why didn’t ‘Abdu’l-Bahá become a christian ?
 
I guess that sort of depends upon who you say Jesus is, doesn’t it?

If Jesus is nobody special, then you’re right: if people came to false conclusions about Him, it would in no way be harmful to them. However, if Jesus was actually who Christians say He is, then NOT believing in him could result in eternal damnation. For example,

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:16 is the famous verse used by evangelists, but 3:18 simply devastates your assertion as quoted above.

False conclusions about Jesus are not good.

Which is why I’m taking the time to help you overcome yours, of course. 👍
"Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God”, He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His names and His attributes, are made manifest in the world… "
  • Baha’u’llah
When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things “verily I am God”…
  • Baha’u’llah
 
“conceive accordingly the distinction, variation, and unity characteristic of the various manifestations of holiness, that thou mayest comprehend the allusions made by the creator of all names and attributes to the mysteries of distinction and unity, and discover the answer to thy question as to why that everlasting beauty should have, at sundry times, called himself by different names and titles.”

— kitáb-i-íqán, 21–22.
]

😉
now this truly is…gobbedygook !
 
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Servant19:
When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things “verily I am God”…
  • Baha’u’llah
What does Baha’u’llah mean by…“verily I am God” ???
 
When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things “verily I am God”…
  • Baha’u’llah
What does Baha’u’llah mean by…“verily I am God” ???
It means He is God…epistemologically…

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In all seriousness though, what is all this mockery, derision and childsplay?

Really? You cannot hold an intellectual dialogue with members of a Faith who are trying their best to answer your questions as systematically as possible without mocking you or calling you names or calling your religious belief names? So you resort to mockery, sarcasm and denigration?

Is that what Jesus taught?

Is this representative of Jesus’ Faith in this day and age?
I can see so many posts resorting to mockery.

I’m embarrassed … really…

.
When you make up words for a theology you have not adequately systematized what else is there left to do? Your doctrine is like shifting sand, it changes to adapt to the situation. You will in one breath say Jesus is God and it is OK to worship him. Then later you will determine that Jesus is not God and it’s not profitable to worship him.

This is shown in how you handle the word epistomologically, it doesn’t really mean anything since nicene Christianity was false from the start to you. It cannot be that Christians are higher on the spiritual ladder than jews whom are unitarian, yet lower own the ladder than muslims who are also unitarian, yet apparently you are forced to believe it, due to progressive revelation.

Do you really think it is OK to worship Jesus? How can it be possible, given how furious God was with the Israelite for idolatry that he suddenly tolerates it with Christ? It can only be possible if Christ is equal to God.
 
When you make up words for a theology you have not adequately systematized what else is there left to do?
Let me, as a Baha’i help you some morality, common decency and general human good will. This is not even basic human behaviour…my 6 year old child often does not understand what I am saying, but she has the humanity and morality to not resort to derision and name calling.

If you feel we are making up words, one usually, with expressions of love, says:

“I apologize, but I cannot understand what you are saying. Would you mind further clarifying the meaning of this word please?”

and if it is still not clear, then the words:

“Sorry again Servant, would you mind explaining this further please, it is still a concept that I cannot understand especially when you use the word X”

This is a sign of patience, forbearance, and sincerity, plus a touch of humility.

I feel sad I have to type what I am typing…

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