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Servant19
Guest
Simply put Robin, marriage is a divine institution created for the bringing forth of “one who will make mention of Me”
All forms of sexual contact between individuals fall within that institution, with that intended purpose.
With abortion, the soul of man is “attached” to the human temple at conception, so abortion is forbidden except in certain medical circumstances:
“Abortion and surgical operations for the purpose of preventing the birth of unwanted children are forbidden in the Cause unless there are circumstances which justify such actions on medical grounds, in which case the decision, at present, is left to the consciences of those concerned who must carefully weigh the medical advice in the light of the general guidance given in the Teachings. Beyond this nothing has been found in the Writings concerning specific methods or procedures to be used in family planning. It should be pointed out, however, that the Teachings state that the soul appears at conception, and that therefore it would be improper to use such a method, the effect of which would be to produce an abortion after conception has taken place.”
(Universal House of Justice, Lights of Guidance, p. 344)
Hope this helps
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Robin_des_Bois
Guest
How can Baha’is believe God sent many revelations that have vast contradictions among them?
You can’t believe in the Qur’an, the Bible, the Zoroastrian teachings, etc. at the same time.
You can’t believe in the Qur’an, the Bible, the Zoroastrian teachings, etc. at the same time.
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Robin_des_Bois
Guest
The Qur’an says Muhammad is the seal of the Prophets, how could there be Prophets after him?
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arthra
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You know Porknpie there’s no need really to be so confrontational… I don’t think Dale was presenting his visit to that church as an affront to the Catholic church… He occasionally visits that church cause it’s near where he lives… Does he believe EG White was a “prophet”? I happen to know he doesn’t… Is he an adventist? No… he’s a Baha’i… Baha’is do sometimes visit a church…even a Catholic church…
The interest in the adventist church by some Baha’is is likely in it’s historic roots…namely in William Miller who believed Christ would return in 1844 (1260 AH)… this we of course would share as Siyyid Ali Muhammad the Bab announced His Mission in 1844 in fulfillment of Muslim prophecy about the Mahdi and the Qa’im and in Christian prophecy of the return of Christ.
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Servant19
Guest
Yes, you can. This is in response to Ignatian’s concerns as well, although Ignatian has been given several explanations already.
So this is primarily for you Robin
What most people do not realise is that the Founders of historical religions were given SPECIFIC Teachings to “advance” the populations for which the Teachings were intended.
For example, the climate of Muhammad’s tribal environment was very much an idol-worshipping one. He was given the SPECIFIC Mission to remove the idol-worshipping veils of ignorance from the Arabian tribes. To such a degree that He was told to REMOVE His own divinity and focus His entire Testament on the reality that there is only ONE GOD. All others are human temples within creation.
This seemingly contradicts Christian doctrine, however, Muhammads mission was not primarily directed at appeasing the Christians, His mission was to create a nation submissive to the ONE GOD, and He was guided by God to fulfill this Mission at all costs.
All the previous Manifestations of God have similar roles which correlates to the spiritual needs of the time, whether it is time-specific, or geographically/culturally-specific.
They are only contradictions to us mere mortals who have a lesser appreciation for these realities.
Because my high school teacher contradicts my primary school teacher does not make them BOTH wrong, nor does it make only ONE of them right. The message they taught me was appropriate to my capacity to understand at the time.
My violin teacher taught me to do pizzicato at first. I changed teacher, and suddenly she told me to use a bow. To a “superficial” thinker there is a contradiction…
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Servant19
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Because Baha’ullah is the fulfillment of what Muhammad was prophesying about
A Prophet prophesies.
Baha’u’llah is the fulfilment of that prophecy…
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arthra
Guest
There are two kinds of prophets mentioned in teh Qur’an … two Arabic words…one is Nabi and the other is Rasuli… The Nabi were inspired and prophetic… The Rasuli likewise were inspired but also and in addition brought new laws and ordiannces… The Qur’anic verse has “Seal of the Nabiyum” not the Rasuli…
Baha’is also believe the dispensation of Prophet Muhammad sealed an age of prophecy while the current dispensation of the Bab and Baha’u’llah was the age of the fulfillment of prophecy.
You can read more about this at
bahai-library.com/fananapazir_fazel_finality_islam
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daler
Guest
Pork,
Sorry for the distraction. I base absolutely nothing on EG White. I was just mentioning that I had spent the day with the Adventists and was exhausted.
There were, however, many, many scholars in Europe and America who had come to the same conclusions regarding the “Time” prophecies of Daniel which they regarded as being fulfilled on or around 1843 or 1844. Among the most widely known of these were:
. William Miller Dale 1843
. Joseph Wolff Date 1847
An alphabetical listing of these would begin with:
Addis, Anderson, Bernard, Birks, Brooks, Brown, etc… i.e. There were many.
. My intention is not to dwell on these figures or to claim “because so and so said, it must be true” That would carry no weight and is not my purpose. So let us not be side tracked by discussing these people and their opinions or interpretations.
. You are correct that "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. … and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” Matthew 24
. The above A) states refers to His 2nd coming B) Jesus does not know the exact time
. Jesus, when asked about His Return, specifically said “Look to Daniel the Prophet”
. You had specific questions about the BIBLE mentioning Baha’u’llah. In English this Title is “The Glory of God” The Bab, in English, means “The Gate”
. Ezekial 43: "Then the man brought me to the gate facing east, 2 and I saw the glory of the God (Baha’u’llah) of Israel coming from the east. His voice was like the roar of rushing waters, and the land was radiant with his glory. 3 The vision I saw was like the vision I had seen when he[a] came to destroy the city and like the visions I had seen by the Kebar River, and I fell facedown. 4 The glory of the Lord (Baha’u’llah) entered the temple through the gate facing east. 5 Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court, and the glory of the Lord filled the temple.
. Neh. 3:29 “…the gate that looketh toward the east: And the glory of the Lord (Baha’u’llah) came into the house by the way of the gate (The Bab) whose prospect is toward the east.”
. “And it came to pass, when the priests came out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord,11 so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord (Baha’u’llah) filled the house of the Lord”. I Kings 8:10-11
… “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father (Baha’u’llah) with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works” Matt 16:27
. "Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him. 55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God (Baha’u’llah) and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”… Acts 7:54…
Pork Only make a mental note of these references, for they could be interpreted this way or that, but just file them in your mental, or written “note box” to be examined along side of the many other notes. OK?
I must go down the mountain now for the day.
God bless you brother, and thank you much for your courteous enquiry and all comments you wish to make, such as EG White, etc, for clarification.
daler
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arthra
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When Baha’u’llah appeared many Muslims, Zoroastrians and Christians came to accept Him. Being Baha’is they were no longer separated by religious divisions and prejudices that had developed between them.
Baha’is believe the source of the great religions is the same… and if you study the topic I think you’ll agree that Zoroastrianism has had a great influence on Judaism and Christianity and that of course Islam later has respected the previous revealed religions as foundational…
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Servant19
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Baha’is DO believe that there is ABSOLUTE TRUTH, however it is revealed to us “relatively” in small drops over millennia, as we develop capacity and consciousness to UNDERSTAND…we call it spiritual evolution if you like… (just like the first milk to a newborn is less fatty than in 6 weeks time, the “fat” content increases relative to the capacity of the child to “bear it now”, or just like the sun “gradually” rises, to allow for the capacity of creation to withstand its magnificent forces of heat and light)
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Servant19
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Pork, might I guide you to please read my post to Robin de Bois above. (#85)
Its also the same reason why Jesus contradicted Mosaic law by making the mud and opening the mans eyes on Sabbath…
Superficial viewers see it as a contradiction. Baha’u’llah provides true insight in to why these “seeming” contradictions exist…
Lastly, Baha’u’llah is not asking you to follow the Quran. Its teachings and Words, although worthy of study within context have been superseded by Baha’u’llahs Words which have ZERO contradictions to the Gospel…
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Servant19
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Little_Star_1
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There is a quote from J.B. Phillips that reads:
“The greatest difference between present day Christianity and that which we read in the letters (of the New Testament), is that to us it is primarily a performance; to them it was real experience. We are apt to reduce the Christian religion to a code or, at best, a rule of heart and life. Perhaps, if we believed what they believed, we could achieve what they achieved.”
There are those of us that do believe as they believed, that know what they knew–The Great I Am. But, we are all struggling within our own lives and are often afraid to speak for fear that the “holders of all rules” will call us blasphemers. If we truly believe, could we not find our way to each other, to uniting if only once, and raise our hearts together, if only once? The effects of just one cry in this way for this purpose could shake the world. Remember Josiah? This is what the Baha’i writings lead us to do–to live with God as one within our own sacredly held faith and love of God.
"To this point, when asked about my faith, sometimes I simply call myself a “Christian Mystic.” I got the term first from C. S. Lewis. His definition of Christian Mysticism is simple: “the direct experience of God, immediate as a taste or color.” Lewis writes,
“Discovering spirituality is like discovering you are in a boat. Mysticism is like pushing off from the dock. Since many leave safe mooring and perish in the waves, this is not to be done in a cavalier fashion – even though it can be exciting to push off into the deep. The issue is not of whether we should push off, for Christians must do so as well if they intend to get anywhere (and that is what boats are for), but rather of where you are going…The Christian casts off from this world as well, but with clear intent to where he is headed, with the best of maps, circumspectly, deliberately. The Christian Mystic arrives, against all dangers and odds. Thus we launch out with fear and trembling, but trust that He who commanded us to do so can calm the waves, and see us through to His real, safe port.”
bstrait.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/what-is-a-christian-mystic/
“Let us look at our own faults, and not at other persons’. People who are extremely correct themselves are often shocked at everything they see; however, we might often learn a great deal that is essential from the very persons whom we censure. Our exterior comportment and manners may be better–this is well enough, but not of the first importance. We ought not to insist on every one following in our footsteps, nor to take upon ourselves to give instructions in spirituality when, perhaps, we do not even know what it is. Zeal for the good of souls, though given us by God, may often lead us astray, sisters; it is best to keep our rule, which bids us ever to live in silence and in hope. Our Lord will care for the souls belonging to Him.”
TERESA OF AVILA, The Interior Castle
To the Baha’i:
“Let nothing disturb thee,
Let nothing affright thee;
All passeth away:
God only shall stay.
Patience wins all:
Who hath God, needeth nothing;
For God is his All.”
SAINT TERESA OF AVILA, Exclamations of the Soul to God
God bless and keep you,
Little Star
“I have reached the inner vision and through thy spirit in me, I have heard thy wondrous secret. Through thy mystic insight Thou hast caused a spring of knowledge to well up within me. A fountain of power pouring forth living waters, a flood of love and of all embracing wisdom like the splendor of eternal light.”
The Book of Enoch
“The greatest difference between present day Christianity and that which we read in the letters (of the New Testament), is that to us it is primarily a performance; to them it was real experience. We are apt to reduce the Christian religion to a code or, at best, a rule of heart and life. Perhaps, if we believed what they believed, we could achieve what they achieved.”
There are those of us that do believe as they believed, that know what they knew–The Great I Am. But, we are all struggling within our own lives and are often afraid to speak for fear that the “holders of all rules” will call us blasphemers. If we truly believe, could we not find our way to each other, to uniting if only once, and raise our hearts together, if only once? The effects of just one cry in this way for this purpose could shake the world. Remember Josiah? This is what the Baha’i writings lead us to do–to live with God as one within our own sacredly held faith and love of God.
"To this point, when asked about my faith, sometimes I simply call myself a “Christian Mystic.” I got the term first from C. S. Lewis. His definition of Christian Mysticism is simple: “the direct experience of God, immediate as a taste or color.” Lewis writes,
“Discovering spirituality is like discovering you are in a boat. Mysticism is like pushing off from the dock. Since many leave safe mooring and perish in the waves, this is not to be done in a cavalier fashion – even though it can be exciting to push off into the deep. The issue is not of whether we should push off, for Christians must do so as well if they intend to get anywhere (and that is what boats are for), but rather of where you are going…The Christian casts off from this world as well, but with clear intent to where he is headed, with the best of maps, circumspectly, deliberately. The Christian Mystic arrives, against all dangers and odds. Thus we launch out with fear and trembling, but trust that He who commanded us to do so can calm the waves, and see us through to His real, safe port.”
bstrait.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/what-is-a-christian-mystic/
“Let us look at our own faults, and not at other persons’. People who are extremely correct themselves are often shocked at everything they see; however, we might often learn a great deal that is essential from the very persons whom we censure. Our exterior comportment and manners may be better–this is well enough, but not of the first importance. We ought not to insist on every one following in our footsteps, nor to take upon ourselves to give instructions in spirituality when, perhaps, we do not even know what it is. Zeal for the good of souls, though given us by God, may often lead us astray, sisters; it is best to keep our rule, which bids us ever to live in silence and in hope. Our Lord will care for the souls belonging to Him.”
TERESA OF AVILA, The Interior Castle
To the Baha’i:
“Let nothing disturb thee,
Let nothing affright thee;
All passeth away:
God only shall stay.
Patience wins all:
Who hath God, needeth nothing;
For God is his All.”
SAINT TERESA OF AVILA, Exclamations of the Soul to God
God bless and keep you,
Little Star
“I have reached the inner vision and through thy spirit in me, I have heard thy wondrous secret. Through thy mystic insight Thou hast caused a spring of knowledge to well up within me. A fountain of power pouring forth living waters, a flood of love and of all embracing wisdom like the splendor of eternal light.”
The Book of Enoch
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Servant19
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Servant19
Guest
Do you mind me asking if there was a specific passage from the Baha’i Writings which guided you to this understanding Little Star?
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Servant19
Guest
While I’m at it:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
What deception are we using to create unity?
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Little_Star_1
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Not one in particular. It was more the feeling that was given to me when reading them. As I have said before, no one person knows All Absolute Truth. Living together and loving each other, everyone, and respecting their own individual connection with the Father, and sharing that as a community allows the Absolute Truth, which is really all about God’s love, to be felt and lived. It is something we are given after searching, we hold within us, and share. Paul said this as well. God’s Light is Love. God’s Love is Light. Anyone that does not read this truth within Christian scripture and the Baha’i writings is not reading with an open heart.Do you mind me asking if there was a specific passage from the Baha’i Writings which guided you to this understanding Little Star?
Here is another quote that I think illustrates it:
"One of the loveliest stories from Julian’s series of visions involves a time when she was asked to hold something little, no bigger than a hazelnut. When she asks God what this is, she is told “It is everything that is made.” She marvels that this thing could even continue to exist, so small and delicate it appears. She then comes to understand that this little thing exists — and continues to do so — because God loves it. “In this little thing, I saw three properties. The first is that God made it. The second is that God loves it. The third is that God keeps it.”
carlmccolman.com/mystics/julian/
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Servant19
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Hopefully, Little Star as you may grow in your understanding of the Baha’i Writings, you will come to understand tat there is not only an INDIVIDUAL identity in the human temple which must manifest love for others, but there is a COLLECTIVE identity, completely unique, completely separate from the individuals which form it that enables REVOLUTIONS to be created.
Baha’u’llah has come to raise the consciousness of the reality of our COLLECTIVE GLOBAL identity which, through His sacrifices, when realised will bring about UNIMAGINABLE scenes on earth, eons beyond what poets yearned for in vain, and what seers cried for in anguish…
…this is the balance. There no longer will be individuals. We are leaves of ONE TREE…
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IgnatianPhilo
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Then explain it to me.
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