Baha'i Returns Thread: Ask Any of Many Baha'i

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There is a quote from J.B. Phillips that reads:

“The greatest difference between present day Christianity and that which we read in the letters (of the New Testament), is that to us it is primarily a performance; to them it was real experience. We are apt to reduce the Christian religion to a code or, at best, a rule of heart and life. Perhaps, if we believed what they believed, we could achieve what they achieved.”

There are those of us that do believe as they believed, that know what they knew–The Great I Am. But, we are all struggling within our own lives and are often afraid to speak for fear that the “holders of all rules” will call us blasphemers. If we truly believe, could we not find our way to each other, to uniting if only once, and raise our hearts together, if only once? The effects of just one cry in this way for this purpose could shake the world. Remember Josiah? This is what the Baha’i writings lead us to do–to live with God as one within our own sacredly held faith and love of God.

"To this point, when asked about my faith, sometimes I simply call myself a “Christian Mystic.” I got the term first from C. S. Lewis. His definition of Christian Mysticism is simple: “the direct experience of God, immediate as a taste or color.” Lewis writes,
“Discovering spirituality is like discovering you are in a boat. Mysticism is like pushing off from the dock. Since many leave safe mooring and perish in the waves, this is not to be done in a cavalier fashion – even though it can be exciting to push off into the deep. The issue is not of whether we should push off, for Christians must do so as well if they intend to get anywhere (and that is what boats are for), but rather of where you are going…The Christian casts off from this world as well, but with clear intent to where he is headed, with the best of maps, circumspectly, deliberately. The Christian Mystic arrives, against all dangers and odds. Thus we launch out with fear and trembling, but trust that He who commanded us to do so can calm the waves, and see us through to His real, safe port.”

bstrait.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/what-is-a-christian-mystic/

“Let us look at our own faults, and not at other persons’. People who are extremely correct themselves are often shocked at everything they see; however, we might often learn a great deal that is essential from the very persons whom we censure. Our exterior comportment and manners may be better–this is well enough, but not of the first importance. We ought not to insist on every one following in our footsteps, nor to take upon ourselves to give instructions in spirituality when, perhaps, we do not even know what it is. Zeal for the good of souls, though given us by God, may often lead us astray, sisters; it is best to keep our rule, which bids us ever to live in silence and in hope. Our Lord will care for the souls belonging to Him.”

TERESA OF AVILA, The Interior Castle

To the Baha’i:

“Let nothing disturb thee,
Let nothing affright thee;
All passeth away:
God only shall stay.
Patience wins all:
Who hath God, needeth nothing;
For God is his All.”

SAINT TERESA OF AVILA, Exclamations of the Soul to God

God bless and keep you,

Little Star

“I have reached the inner vision and through thy spirit in me, I have heard thy wondrous secret. Through thy mystic insight Thou hast caused a spring of knowledge to well up within me. A fountain of power pouring forth living waters, a flood of love and of all embracing wisdom like the splendor of eternal light.”

The Book of Enoch
Why do you insist on discussing this topic in a thread in which it does not belong? Are you so afraid as to be challanged on a thread that actually deals with how Christians are supposed live, their relationship to the past? C.S Lewis doesn’t recommend this reckless Christianity you do, that is the abandoning of the men of the past, rather he makes the point that Christianity has been built up by such men, tested and defined for us. Again i invite you to discuss this in a thread that is actually dedicated this subject, unless your afraid.
 
I am given a bahai quote once again that is said to answer my question as to the nature of the manifestation or manifestations but again I do not get it from a simple quote. My essential question has been to ask, to beg bahai to clarify what their manifestation or manifestations are.

Are they multiple entities, sharing the same will and purpose and or substance and or spirit that each incarnate at different times?

Is there only but one manifestation that exists, incarnating himself in different times and people under the guise of different bodies and different messages?
The bahai here are simply not answering this question, they are more content to offer vague hints without actually addressing the problem I have posed to them because without understanding this bahai are chopping their foundation from under them.
Daler you have said this answers my question?

“The songs which the bird of thine heart had uttered in its great love for its friends have reached their ears, and moved Me to answer thy questions, and reveal to thee such secrets as I am allowed to unfold. In thine esteemed letter thou hadst inquired which of the Prophets of God should be regarded as superior to others. Know thou assuredly that the essence of all the Prophets of God is one and the same. Their unity is absolute. God, the Creator, saith: There is no distinction whatsoever among the Bearers of My Message. They all have but one purpose; their secret is the same secret. To prefer one in honor to another, to exalt certain ones above the rest, is in no wise to be permitted. Every true Prophet hath regarded His Message as fundamentally the same as the 79 Revelation of every other Prophet gone before Him. If any man, therefore, should fail to comprehend this truth, and should consequently indulge in vain and unseemly language, no one whose sight is keen and whose understanding is enlightened would ever allow such idle talk to cause him to waver in his belief.”

For one thing this speaks about prophets, not manifestations and implies they are all equal. Unless this is clarified elsewhere in bahai writings this does not specifically address my question as to the nature of the identity of the supposed Manifestations. But I will point out that by this standard of Mirza Hussain, we cannot possibly trust the author of Hebrews for Hebrews blatantly tells us that Jesus the Christ is the greatest of all, greater than Moses even in as much as Christ laid the foundation. Already there is a disconnect between the previous religion and the new innovative religion it seems.

I could go on criticising bahai based on this passage but I do not feel the need because that is not my point at this time, rather my point is unaddressed again. You say you have answered, you say you have made it clear, but no you haven’t. All you have done is use vague metaphors that don’t add up to anything in the end. What does it tell me that you think a manifestation is like a mirror shining God’s glory? What is that in the end but some abstract concept with no actual meaning other than manifestations should apparently be perfect but we know the people whom you claim to be manifestations were not perfect. Moses sinned (another point bahai have refused to talk about) Mohammad violated the private property of Pagans (smashing their idols and he insulted Christians calling them blasphemers. That last point should be made because bahai say it is wrong to do such things), Krishna claimed to be God, Budha denied God was important rather only escaping suffering was important and etc. I sincerely doubt any bahai will address the specific point I am raising and begging them to clarify but hey, I’ll give you a chance. Post something from your prophet which doesn’t address my specific question because no one ever asked this of your prophet in the first place and you are left without a clearly defined theology forcing you to think for yourselves. Go on.
 
While I’m at it:

:banghead:

:banghead:

:banghead:

What deception are we using to create unity?
For one thing you are lying not only to me but to yourselves when you say we both agree. You know this is not true and that we contradict each other but it is so hard for bahai to accept the reality of people contradicting, its as if you cannot face reality. You would if you could say to Jesus and the pharisees “Come on guys we all agree, we’re all one.” despite Jesus calling the pharisees snakes and sons of satan.
 
Hopefully, Little Star as you may grow in your understanding of the Baha’i Writings, you will come to understand tat there is not only an INDIVIDUAL identity in the human temple which must manifest love for others, but there is a COLLECTIVE identity, completely unique, completely separate from the individuals which form it that enables REVOLUTIONS to be created.

Baha’u’llah has come to raise the consciousness of the reality of our COLLECTIVE GLOBAL identity which, through His sacrifices, when realised will bring about UNIMAGINABLE scenes on earth, eons beyond what poets yearned for in vain, and what seers cried for in anguish…

…this is the balance. There no longer will be individuals. We are leaves of ONE TREE…
I do understand this and I thought I had communicated that. I guess I wasn’t clear. This community identity was what God’s relationship with the Jewish people was about. This is why we have church and worship together. God used the Jewish people to demonstrate this. There is great power where all gather to the same purpose out of the same sense of devotion and love to the Father.
 
Why do you insist on discussing this topic in a thread in which it does not belong? Are you so afraid as to be challanged on a thread that actually deals with how Christians are supposed live, their relationship to the past? C.S Lewis doesn’t recommend this reckless Christianity you do, that is the abandoning of the men of the past, rather he makes the point that Christianity has been built up by such men, tested and defined for us. Again i invite you to discuss this in a thread that is actually dedicated this subject, unless your afraid.
Philo,

It is you who should fear. You have nothing to offer me. Anyone that challenges someone to come and discuss a topic related to the Father and suggests that they will not do so out of fear is not a man of God. I do not do so out of respect for all that God has given me in understanding of His Love for me. Whatever leads you to disillusion yourself into believing that I or anyone else has something that must be proven to you? May God forgive you.

You may be a man that is learned in all the great books of all the great philosophers over all time related to your church, the Catholic church, and any other church out there. Yet, you have nothing to offer of substance.

I recommend no type of Christianity to you or to anyone else. I was stating my beliefs. If you don’t agree with them, so what? “Abandoning such men”. Malarkey I say, malarkey!!!

Here is what Paul had to say regarding men such as yourself:

13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,** but do not have love, I gain nothing.

My prayers go out to you and may the light of the Lord open your eyes to the Living God.**
 
Philo,

It is you who should fear. You have nothing to offer me. Anyone that challenges someone to come and discuss a topic related to the Father and suggests that they will not do so out of fear is not a man of God. I do not do so out of respect for all that God has given me in understanding of His Love for me. Whatever leads you to disillusion yourself into believing that I or anyone else has something that must be proven to you? May God forgive you.

You may be a man that is learned in all the great books of all the great philosophers over all time related to your church, the Catholic church, and any other church out there. Yet, you have nothing to offer of substance.

I recommend no type of Christianity to you or to anyone else. I was stating my beliefs. If you don’t agree with them, so what? “Abandoning such men”. Malarkey I say, malarkey!!!

Here is what Paul had to say regarding men such as yourself:

13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,** but do not have love, I gain nothing.

My prayers go out to you and may the light of the Lord open your eyes to the Living God.**

The thing is i’m not learned, like at all, I don’t know what that makes you. But you want this thread to be about a subject not related to bahai. That being said you seriously want to maintain that bahai and Christians don’t dissagree? There are no contradictions between our faiths? I think by the mere fact I contradicted you on this point and offered plenty of examples to the contrary is substance enough.
 
For one thing you are lying not only to me but to yourselves when you say we both agree. You know this is not true and that we contradict each other but it is so hard for bahai to accept the reality of people contradicting, its as if you cannot face reality. You would if you could say to Jesus and the pharisees “Come on guys we all agree, we’re all one.” despite Jesus calling the pharisees snakes and sons of satan.
Jesus may have called the Pharisees those things and deservedly so, but not all Jews.

But your point is that we don’t “all agree” and you are quite correct about that. Baha’is don’t claim that all religious doctrines agree, that would be ridiculously false. We claim that the religions in their origin are one. In other words they come from the same source, God.

So does that clear things up? Religion is not equal to religious doctrines. Doctrines multiply and change over time, as a result the followers of the different sects don’t agree with one another. Or better put, because the followers don’t agree, they create the divergent doctrines. The Baha’i message is to toss out those conflicting doctrines. That is how the religions can unite, and as a result the world can unite.

You can agree with that or not, but there is not deception, and no clinging to obvious untruths. Baha’i will consider the implications of any historic fact, or scientific fact, we don’t try to bend them to fit our beliefs. We are serious about seeking the truth. That’s why it would be very disconcerting to a Baha’i when someone claims that there is intentional dishonesty.

Jcc
 
Jesus may have called the Pharisees those things and deservedly so, but not all Jews.

But your point is that we don’t “all agree” and you are quite correct about that. Baha’is don’t claim that all religious doctrines agree, that would be ridiculously false. We claim that the religions in their origin are one. In other words they come from the same source, God.

So does that clear things up? Religion is not equal to religious doctrines. Doctrines multiply and change over time, as a result the followers of the different sects don’t agree with one another. Or better put, because the followers don’t agree, they create the divergent doctrines. The Baha’i message is to toss out those conflicting doctrines. That is how the religions can unite, and as a result the world can unite.

You can agree with that or not, but there is not deception, and no clinging to obvious untruths. Baha’i will consider the implications of any historic fact, or scientific fact, we don’t try to bend them to fit our beliefs. We are serious about seeking the truth. That’s why it would be very disconcerting to a Baha’i when someone claims that there is intentional dishonesty.

Jcc
I wish all bahai would accept it so bluntly.
 
Someone above asked:

“Is there only but one manifestation that exists, incarnating himself in different times and people under the guise of different bodies and different messages?
The bahai here are simply not answering this question…”


First Baha’is don’t believe in “incarnating” like say Hindus and some Christians…in other words, God does not incarnate Himself in a body or bodies…

The Manifesattions of God have three levels or planes… A physical body which is pretty much the same as other bodies… They can be ill… and physically die.

The Manifestations have a human character… an individuality…

The Manifestations have a Divine nature.

*"We said that the Manifestations have three planes.

First, the physical reality, which depends upon the body;

second, the individual reality, that is to say, the rational soul;

third, the divine appearance, which is the divine perfections, the cause of the life of existence, of the education of souls, of the guidance of people, and of the enlightenment of the contingent world."
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 153

The Manifestations of God are one in our belief:

“In the Word of God there is still another unity, the oneness of the Manifestations of God, His Holiness Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. This is a unity divine, heavenly, radiant, merciful; the one reality appearing in its successive manifestations.”

~ Abdu’l-Baha

🙂
 
If anyone has ears to hear let him hear.

Proverbs 16:25 “Their is a way which (seems) right to a man but its end is the way of death.”

2 Corinthians 11: 13-15 “Such men are false apostles, dishonest workmen, that (pass) for apostles of Christ. And no wonder; Satan himself can pass for an angel of light, and his servants have (no difficulty) in passing for servants of holiness; but their end will be what their life has deserved.”

Satan has been called the 'Father of Lies", and so he is. One thing you must understand about him is that he will tell you the truth…most of the time… so he can set you up so you can be destroyed.
 
If anyone has ears to hear let him hear.

Proverbs 16:25 “Their is a way which (seems) right to a man but its end is the way of death.”

2 Corinthians 11: 13-15 “Such men are false apostles, dishonest workmen, that (pass) for apostles of Christ. And no wonder; Satan himself can pass for an angel of light, and his servants have (no difficulty) in passing for servants of holiness; but their end will be what their life has deserved.”

Satan has been called the 'Father of Lies", and so he is. One thing you must understand about him is that he will tell you the truth…most of the time… so he can set you up so you can be destroyed.
Zoroaster who came BEFORE Jesus said similar things to this.

So what makes you think that Jesus is not the Father of Lies?
 
Someone above asked:

“Is there only but one manifestation that exists, incarnating himself in different times and people under the guise of different bodies and different messages?
The bahai here are simply not answering this question…”


First Baha’is don’t believe in “incarnating” like say Hindus and some Christians…in other words, God does not incarnate Himself in a body or bodies…

The Manifesattions of God have three levels or planes… A physical body which is pretty much the same as other bodies… They can be ill… and physically die.

The Manifestations have a human character… an individuality…

The Manifestations have a Divine nature.

*"We said that the Manifestations have three planes.

First, the physical reality, which depends upon the body;

second, the individual reality, that is to say, the rational soul;

third, the divine appearance, which is the divine perfections, the cause of the life of existence, of the education of souls, of the guidance of people, and of the enlightenment of the contingent world."
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 153

The Manifestations of God are one in our belief:

“In the Word of God there is still another unity, the oneness of the Manifestations of God, His Holiness Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. This is a unity divine, heavenly, radiant, merciful; the one reality appearing in its successive manifestations.”

~ Abdu’l-Baha

🙂
So you would maintain against what some other bahai have said that the manifestations are individuals? That Jesus is not literally MOses or Abraham? Only in the sense by which they share a similar nature?
 
My essential question has been to ask, to beg bahai to clarify what their manifestation or manifestations are.

Are they multiple entities, sharing the same will and purpose and or substance and or spirit that each incarnate at different times?

Is there only but one manifestation that exists, incarnating himself in different times

“The songs which the bird of thine heart had uttered in its great love for its friends have reached their ears, and moved Me to answer thy questions, and reveal to thee such secrets as I am allowed to unfold. In thine esteemed letter thou hadst inquired which of the Prophets of God should be regarded as superior to others. Know thou assuredly that the essence of all the Prophets of God is one and the same. Their unity is absolute. God, the Creator, saith: There is no distinction whatsoever among the Bearers of My Message. They all have but one purpose; their secret is the same secret. To prefer one in honor to another, to exalt certain ones above the rest, is in no wise to be permitted. Every true Prophet hath regarded His Message as fundamentally the same as the 79 Revelation of every other Prophet gone before Him. If any man, therefore, should fail to comprehend this truth, and should consequently indulge in vain and unseemly language, no one whose sight is keen and whose understanding is enlightened would ever allow such idle talk to cause him to waver in his belief.”
Ignatian:
  1. As per Moses. When, in Scripture, God is “chastising a Prophet”, what this means is that God is chastising the People to whom that Prophet is sent, for He is the “symbol” of this people. It is not Moses who is guilty of turning away from God and refusing to walk the path of the spirit, but the people. Even as Christ took upon Himself the sins of the world, of which He was not guilty, and was crucified, so, too, Moses accepted the burden of the sins and rebellion against God of the Jewish people, that they may advance across the spiritual River Jordan and enter the Promised Land, even as Christ took our sins that we might be free. He remains, in a sense, as St Peter standing at the entrance gate of heaven, bidding us to enter…
  2. Buddha appeared among Hindus who had multiplied God by the millions and did not “add yet another God” to their pile, but rather prescribed an 8 fold path of restoring them to sanity and spiritual capacity. As to God, He said:
“There is, O monks, an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed” i.e. God!
  1. Baha’u’llah refers to the Manifestations (plural) of God as “Pure Souls” (plural)
Viewed through human eyes, we see the human vessel. Thus these Glorified Beings appear to us as “human”, although it is true that they are what we might call “superhuman”, in that their reality exceeds human reality, immeasurably so…

Do we compare a gnat to an eagle? Or a candle to the sun?

That the Manifestations of God appear to us human gnats does not mean that they are not spiritual eagles.

That they appear to us as mere candles, does not mean that they are not the Suns of Reality.

They are the Dawning Points of the Laws of God, the Daysprings of His Revelation, the means by which the Infinite Creator makes Himself known to the finite creatures.

. “Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.”
. He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.” Baha’u’llah

. You ask: “Are they multiple entities?”
. My answer: Are there multiple days in the week?

It is one and the same sun which shines on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc.

It is One and the Same God who appears to us through Moses, Jesus, Baha’u’llah

So yes, Ignatian, if we look at the calendar we see multiple days of the week.
Yet if we look at the sun, there is but one sun.

If we look at the human Manifestations of God they are multiple.
If we look at God, He is One.

It depends upon what eyes we are using to see God and His Manifestations.
You seem to be confounded by the verses which indicate the concept of a Single Manifestation of God Who appears from Age to Age in the multiple human appearances, Those Human forms which we ourselves relate to, Whom, in my thinking, are infinitely more than human, but Whose mission is to bring us closer to God, not the words in our head, which tend to get in the way of us and our Creator.
Their mission is to help us overcome all this noise in our heads, become untangled from the fledgling garment of words, eventually setting them aside, for they become a veil between us and God.

Those, however, who cling so tenaciously to human words of their own making and continuously reject the Words of God are themselves confounded by His Words, entangled within the instruments of the intellect, and fail to overcome the gravity of syllables and sounds, thus depriving themselves of the bounty of spiritual flight, wherein we “meet the Lord in the air”
 
The thing is i’m not learned, like at all, I don’t know what that makes you. But you want this thread to be about a subject not related to bahai. That being said you seriously want to maintain that bahai and Christians don’t dissagree? There are no contradictions between our faiths? I think by the mere fact I contradicted you on this point and offered plenty of examples to the contrary is substance enough.
Ignatian:

1900 years ago this same conversation was taking place between the new followers of a man called Jesus the Christ, with people who were called Jews.

There were those who, on the one side, said that Christians and Jews don’t disagree. That there are no contradictions between our faiths.

However, there were many Jews who accepted Christ and became called Christians

For those of us who formerly called ourselves Christian, but who now call ourselves Baha’i, there is no contradiction, for we have been on our road to Damascus, gone from being Saul to Paul, met the Lord in the “air” of His Heavenly Reality, where “He” is at, by listening to His Voice, hearing “His” Words, allowed them to penetrate our souls.

To do this, we had to shut off the voices in our heads which are merely echoes of the thoughts and limited conceptions of those gone before us. These echoes are not reality. The Word of God is Reality.

“Man does not live by bread alone, but by “every” word which proceeds out of the Mouth of the Lord”

Not by the words of 6000 years ago only, or 5000 years ago only, or 4000, 3000, 2000, but those Words which He uttered most recently, as well, through His current Manifestation, Baha’u’llah.

You have been presented with His Words. You cannot “hear Him”. That is ok. Stay with the Words of Moses and Jesus. No one faults you for that. They, too, are the Words of God. Some of us testify with our words, deeds, and lives that we have heard the Voice of God speaking again, as promised in all the Holy Books. Those promises have been fulfilled.
The testimony of my wife’s aunt and little children included going to prison in Iran.
The testimony of my friend’s sister has cost her 5 years thus far in an Iranian prison, with 15 more years to go, which she will serve gladly and willingly, rather than simply utter the words: “I recant my belief in Baha’u’llah”
The testimony of 10 women in a single day caused them to be hung one after another for refusing to utter those words.
The testimony of Stephen was to accept being stoned to death.
The testimony of Peter was the same.

We can comfortably sit here and chat on the Internet about this till hell freezes over.
It will never change their testimony.
I think that says something…
 
So you would maintain against what some other bahai have said that the manifestations are individuals? That Jesus is not literally MOses or Abraham? Only in the sense by which they share a similar nature?
Ignatian. The Baha’is maintain the same thing: That the individual human nature of Jesus is not Moses or Abraham.
Than the individual human nature of John the Baptist was not Elijah.

The Bahai’s “do agree” with Jesus that the the spiritual reality of Elijah existed in John the Baptist.

Likewise, the Baha’is maintain and are fully unified in the belief that individual human nature of Jesus and Baha’u’llah are not of the same set of DNA, but are individuals.

The Bahai’s do agree that the “spiritual reality and purpose” of Jesus exists in Baha’u’llah, Who is “Christ returned in the Glory of the Father”

If you look at the fingers of your hand, you see fingers.
If you look at the hand itself, it is one, and the fingers proceed from it as individuals.

Baha’u’llah says: “Be as the fingers of one hand”

He says: “Ye are the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one tree”

He further says:

“Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.”

God bless you, Ignatian.
 
as an outsider listening in on this thread,which btw i find very interesting indeed, ive got to say this, LITTLE STAR,are you part of this Bahai tag team?

it does look to me that you are trying very hard to get people on the side of the Baha`i folk.

and you never mention anything at all do with the topic of the thread,why is that?

this is not a personal attack on you,please dont think it is.

but it does look like card tricksters on the street hustling Joe public with a plant amongst them to get them in the net…

God bless every body… keep the thread going it is showing to me more than words can say. 😉
 
as an outsider listening in on this thread,which btw i find very interesting indeed, ive got to say this, LITTLE STAR,are you part of this Bahai tag team?

it does look to me that you are trying very hard to get people on the side of the Baha`i folk.

and you never mention anything at all do with the topic of the thread,why is that?

this is not a personal attack on you,please dont think it is.

but it does look like card tricksters on the street hustling Joe public with a plant amongst them to get them in the net…

God bless every body… keep the thread going it is showing to me more than words can say. 😉
I think, doormouse, that Little Star is a bit shell shocked that Christians would treat others in the way that Ignatian has treated the Baha’is in this thread.

There can be no doubt that continuing to purposely disrespect Baha’u’llah by calling Him by His birth name, warrants some questions, and to be honest I’m a little disappointed that the Christians here have not united together and shown the courage to ask him to be respectful.

Water off a ducks back for the Baha’is, God is verily Self-Sufficient, but it would be equivalent to continuously and knowingly calling The Lord of Christianity “Jesus the Non-Messiah”

Were I to continue calling Him “Jesus the non-Messiah”, I can assure you that ALL Baha’is would be telling me to knuckle down and show some charity, more importantly some respect (a God-given virtue)

Little Star has in no way come on here to say “Baha’u’llah is my Lord and I’m converting today” or anything (that would be a better plant/stooge if you ask me lol) but it seems that Little Star has investigated the Bahai Faith and has drawn some valid conclusions, independently.

I admit I have conversed with Little Star via PM but this was way way after she started contributing to the Bahai thread. To me, she’s a true Christian, and if she was to see a threat or ANY evil intent or ungodliness in the Bahai Writings, she would either have kept quiet or gone down the route of Ignatian, but I think she has investigated well, whereas Ignatian can’t read my posts from yesterday, never mind a Revelation of God from 170 years ago.

I invite you to contact Little Star yourself and see what she says. I also invite you to contribute to this thread with any questions, and to even (God forbid ;). ) read some of the Bahai Scriptures and THEN ask some questions

God bless 🙂
 
So you would maintain against what some other bahai have said that the manifestations are individuals? That Jesus is not literally MOses or Abraham? Only in the sense by which they share a similar nature?
Here again for you is the Baha’i belief:

*"We said that the Manifestations have three planes.

First, the physical reality, which depends upon the body;

**second, the individual reality, that is to say, the rational soul; **

third, the divine appearance, which is the divine perfections, the cause of the life of existence, of the education of souls, of the guidance of people, and of the enlightenment of the contingent world."
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 153

In the individual sense They have a rational soul and are unique…

In the Divine plane They are one as with the Holy Spirit…🙂
 
as an outsider listening in on this thread,which btw i find very interesting indeed, ive got to say this, LITTLE STAR,are you part of this Bahai tag team?

it does look to me that you are trying very hard to get people on the side of the Baha`i folk.

and you never mention anything at all do with the topic of the thread,why is that?

this is not a personal attack on you,please dont think it is.

but it does look like card tricksters on the street hustling Joe public with a plant amongst them to get them in the net…

God bless every body… keep the thread going it is showing to me more than words can say. 😉
Doormouse.
. Thank you for your frank thoughts which, although initially addressed to Little Star, reveal a wider audience, specifically, what you perceive as “the Baha’i tag team.”

Let me comment on that. When Moses appeared in the world, among those proponents of His Cause were some who followed the injunction of God to share that which was given to them by Moses, as God directed. An outsider might observe a Jewish “tag team” at work.
. Clearly, the spread of the Gospel, which was enjoined upon the followers of Christ Jesus, consisted of the equivalent of “Christian tag teams”, who courageously faced persecution in obedience to God to teach His Cause, as given to them by the Lord Jesus.

. Although in the west there is little appreciation for “Muslim tag teams”, for the overall view of Islam is distorted through the history of the wrongdoings of some who too aggressively took up the sword in their misguided zeal to spread their Faith, the same behavior by Christians is found throughout history in virtually every land. ( I come from a Sioux Indian Reservation and can testify to this )

. The followers of The Bab (Gate) were also told to spread the teachings and prepare for the coming of “Him Whom God shall make manifest”, referring to Baha’u’llah, the Glory of God. The Bab was essentially the “John the Baptist” of the Baha’i Dispensation.

. The Baha’is are like wise encouraged to share the teachings of Baha’u’llah, but not to proselytize for that is “strictly” forbidden. That we, as early Christians, share some enthusiasm in participating in the advancement of “an ever advancing civilization” by contributing what we regard as the Word of God for this day, is the same enthusiasm felt and shared by the early Christian believers.

. Unfortunately, when we meet with antagonism, unfriendly, and sometimes dishonest attacks against our Faith, we need to find ways to gently correct those inaccuracies in courteous dialogue. Occasionally, a bystander (in this case Little Star) view the venomous attacks with a sense of outrage which calls them to stand up and speak the truth as they see it, much like “white bystanders” arising in the Civil Rights struggle on behalf of the blacks. Does a person of active conscience keep quiet when glaring hatred or racial slurs are directed against other human beings, even by those who themselves profess to be followers of the One who said “Love thine enemies”?

. There are no “card tricksters” here, only sincere believer that the One Whom Jesus told was to come, has come. Literal interpretations of Bible imagery regarding His coming requires an open mind to make sense of things, such as Jesus coming in literal clouds, whereas “clouds” obstruct clear vision of what is happening just beyond them, and yet not so far away as to not be discerned by “those who have eyes to see”.

Thank you for participating in this thread and your encouragement of those who are here to continue. Looking forward to further discussion with you. God bless
 
I think, doormouse, that Little Star is a bit shell shocked that Christians would treat others in the way that Ignatian has treated the Baha’is in this thread.

There can be no doubt that continuing to purposely disrespect Baha’u’llah by calling Him by His birth name, warrants some questions, and to be honest I’m a little disappointed that the Christians here have not united together and shown the courage to ask him to be respectful.

Water off a ducks back for the Baha’is, God is verily Self-Sufficient, but it would be equivalent to continuously and knowingly calling The Lord of Christianity “Jesus the Non-Messiah”

Were I to continue calling Him “Jesus the non-Messiah”, I can assure you that ALL Baha’is would be telling me to knuckle down and show some charity, more importantly some respect (a God-given virtue)

Little Star has in no way come on here to say “Baha’u’llah is my Lord and I’m converting today” or anything (that would be a better plant/stooge if you ask me lol) but it seems that Little Star has investigated the Bahai Faith and has drawn some valid conclusions, independently.

I admit I have conversed with Little Star via PM but this was way way after she started contributing to the Bahai thread. To me, she’s a true Christian, and if she was to see a threat or ANY evil intent or ungodliness in the Bahai Writings, she would either have kept quiet or gone down the route of Ignatian, but I think she has investigated well, whereas Ignatian can’t read my posts from yesterday, never mind a Revelation of God from 170 years ago.

I invite you to contact Little Star yourself and see what she says. I also invite you to contribute to this thread with any questions, and to even (God forbid ;). ) read some of the Bahai Scriptures and THEN ask some questions

God bless 🙂
now you see with regards to the reading of the Bahai Scriptures then ask questions,and the Revelation of God from 170 years ago.

Mary the Mother of God has revealed herself and has never mentioned any of these writings or people at all. infact we are told of this Lady to turn to the Gospels not to Baha’u’llah or Bahai Scriptures.

so you see God does not contradict what he has spoken or shown/given…

that is why philo is asking questions and doing what he is doing…as for being disrespectful to Baha’is i cannot see any in his posts at all… and i would also say that you have been spoke to with respect and charity all the Baha’is on here…

God bless you all.
 
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