Baha'i Returns Thread: Ask Any of Many Baha'i

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Um, in that case death has never needed to be conquered, its just an inevitable fact then. Are you trying to say that’s what Christ did? That in his ressurection he opened the world to the mystical reality of the afterlife? If you think death is so good, the greatest sacrament it seems (for it delivers us from these corrupt shells) do you think you ought celebrate death?
Baha’is do celebrate death. Obviously there is dignity, prayers and respect, we don’t have a rave party or anything, but I’ve been to several Baha’i funerals where there is singing of prayers, bright colours, a celebration of the spiritual attributes that the dead have manifested in this life.

Naturally, I miss my father who died years ago, but I know he’s with me at all times and under all conditions, and I know I will be reunited with him upon my death, for eternity, under the loving embrace of Baha’u’llah
 
Why would you, as a monk want to surrender your own will, and all of lifes pleasures, if it was not obstructing you from God.

If lifes carnal pleasures are obstructing you from God, would you not say that they are evil?

Gods will is Godly, your own will, if not aligned with God’s will, is evil. God clearly wants us to detach from the things of this world.

Its been a figure of mansticism for millenia. The Baha’i Faith proclaims the same thing, but requests that Baha’is acieve the same spiritual condition by carrying out selfless acts of service for mankind. SACRIFICING ourselves for others is another way of TRANSCENDING the carnal pleasures of this world, but the difference is that it creates the Kingdom of God on earth at the same time…
Yes you do give up this life’s pleasures because it distracts you from God. WHere did I imply otherwise? Thats not the same as saying this physical world is something lesser, some unworthy of existing, something base. The Monk has to say “The creation is good,” because God said as much in genesis and apparently bahai don’t believe in that statement. That being said, what God wants is faith, not neccessarily total detachment, that is not for everyone, that is calling for some, some are called to have families and not live as monks.
 
Baha’is do celebrate death. Obviously there is dignity, prayers and respect, we don’t have a rave party or anything, but I’ve been to several Baha’i funerals where there is singing of prayers, bright colours, a celebration of the spiritual attributes that the dead have manifested in this life.

Naturally, I miss my father who died years ago, but I know he’s with me at all times and under all conditions, and I know I will be reunited with him upon my death, for eternity, under the loving embrace of Baha’u’llah
If you celebrate death why are you opposed to abortion?
 
If you celebrate death why are you opposed to abortion?
We celebrate death when God’s will has imposed itself for a soul to be detached from the physical frame and to be taken to the next world, NOT when WE impose our own will on the fate of another human being…
 
Yes you do give up this life’s pleasures because it distracts you from God. WHere did I imply otherwise? Thats not the same as saying this physical world is something lesser, some unworthy of existing, something base. The Monk has to say “The creation is good,” because God said as much in genesis and apparently bahai don’t believe in that statement. That being said, what God wants is faith, not neccessarily total detachment, that is not for everyone, that is calling for some, some are called to have families and not live as monks.
Firstly, let state clearly that “evil” is a state of mind, just as “heaven” is the diametrically opposite state of mind.

So in terms of creation, Baha’is do not see the physical world as inherently evil. Baha’is love creation and are encouraged to cherish and be thankful to God for what He has bountifully given us. However, it is the ATTACHMENT to the things of this world which causes an “evil” state of being. Spirutuality is garnered by being mentally DETACHED from material things

Attachment to material possessions, is different to having material possessions for living purposes.

You can come over to my place tomorrow and smash my tv set, won’t bother me. Doesn’t mean I think my TV set is evil, BUT if I went and assaulted you because of it, then I can be seen as attached to my TV, maybe I need to re-think my spiritual condition? Slightly extreme example, off the top of my head, but I hope the message is clear 🙂
 
Firstly, let state clearly that “evil” is a state of mind, just as “heaven” is the diametrically opposite state of mind.

So in terms of creation, Baha’is do not see the physical world as inherently evil. Baha’is love creation and are encouraged to cherish and be thankful to God for what He has bountifully given us. However, it is the ATTACHMENT to the things of this world which causes an “evil” state of being. Spirutuality is garnered by being mentally DETACHED from material things

Attachment to material possessions, is different to having material possessions for living purposes.

You can come over to my place tomorrow and smash my tv set, won’t bother me. Doesn’t mean I think my TV set is evil, BUT if I went and assaulted you because of it, then I can be seen as attached to my TV, maybe I need to re-think my spiritual condition? Slightly extreme example, off the top of my head, but I hope the message is clear 🙂
Firstly, let state clearly that “evil” is a state of mind, just as “heaven” is the diametrically opposite state of mind.
i beg to differ,so does Jesus Christ when he asks the Father to deliver us from the evil one in the lords payer…

so you dont believe evil is real?really…
 
i beg to differ,so does Jesus Christ when he asks the Father to deliver us from the evil one in the lords payer…

so you dont believe evil is real?really…
Evil is more the absence of good…

Just as shadow is the absence of light…

evil is not a positive force … a malevolent power that fights God…

We can cavil and weep about the illnesses we know of and misfortunes of humanity…

We can also set about to releave other peoples’ suffering

I believe we are in this world to learn and advance spiritually in preparation for the next…

Just as the fetus has developed arms and legs for this world with little purpose for them in the womb…

On the topic of evil:

*Briefly, the intellectual realities, such as all the qualities and admirable perfections of man, are purely good, and exist. Evil is simply their nonexistence. So ignorance is the want of knowledge; error is the want of guidance; forgetfulness is the want of memory; stupidity is the want of good sense. All these things have no real existence.

In the same way, the sensible realities are absolutely good, and evil is due to their nonexistence – that is to say, blindness is the want of sight, deafness is the want of hearing, poverty is the want of wealth, illness is the want of health, death is the want of life, and weakness is the want of strength.

Nevertheless a doubt occurs to the mind – that is, scorpions and serpents are poisonous. Are they good or evil, for they are existing beings? Yes, a scorpion is evil in relation to man; a serpent is evil in relation to man; but in relation to themselves they are not evil, for their poison is 264 their weapon, and by their sting they defend themselves. But as the elements of their poison do not agree with our elements – that is to say, as there is antagonism between these different elements, therefore, this antagonism is evil; but in reality as regards themselves they are good.

The epitome of this discourse is that it is possible that one thing in relation to another may be evil, and at the same time within the limits of its proper being it may not be evil. Then it is proved that there is no evil in existence; all that God created He created good. This evil is nothingness; so death is the absence of life. When man no longer receives life, he dies. Darkness is the absence of light: when there is no light, there is darkness. Light is an existing thing, but darkness is nonexistent. Wealth is an existing thing, but poverty is nonexisting.

Then it is evident that all evils return to nonexistence. Good exists; evil is nonexistent. *

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 263
 
Evil is more the absence of good…

Just as shadow is the absence of light…

evil is not a positive force … a malevolent power that fights God…

We can cavil and weep about the illnesses we know of and misfortunes of humanity…

We can also set about to releave other peoples’ suffering

I believe we are in this world to learn and advance spiritually in preparation for the next…

Just as the fetus has developed arms and legs for this world with little purpose for them in the womb…

On the topic of evil:

*Briefly, the intellectual realities, such as all the qualities and admirable perfections of man, are purely good, and exist. Evil is simply their nonexistence. So ignorance is the want of knowledge; error is the want of guidance; forgetfulness is the want of memory; stupidity is the want of good sense. All these things have no real existence.

In the same way, the sensible realities are absolutely good, and evil is due to their nonexistence – that is to say, blindness is the want of sight, deafness is the want of hearing, poverty is the want of wealth, illness is the want of health, death is the want of life, and weakness is the want of strength.

Nevertheless a doubt occurs to the mind – that is, scorpions and serpents are poisonous. Are they good or evil, for they are existing beings? Yes, a scorpion is evil in relation to man; a serpent is evil in relation to man; but in relation to themselves they are not evil, for their poison is 264 their weapon, and by their sting they defend themselves. But as the elements of their poison do not agree with our elements – that is to say, as there is antagonism between these different elements, therefore, this antagonism is evil; but in reality as regards themselves they are good.

The epitome of this discourse is that it is possible that one thing in relation to another may be evil, and at the same time within the limits of its proper being it may not be evil. Then it is proved that there is no evil in existence; all that God created He created good. This evil is nothingness; so death is the absence of life. When man no longer receives life, he dies. Darkness is the absence of light: when there is no light, there is darkness. Light is an existing thing, but darkness is nonexistent. Wealth is an existing thing, but poverty is nonexisting.

Then it is evident that all evils return to nonexistence. Good exists; evil is nonexistent. *

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 263
Nevertheless a doubt occurs to the mind – that is, scorpions and serpents are poisonous. Are they good or evil, for they are existing beings? Yes, a scorpion is evil in relation to man; a serpent is evil in relation to man; but in relation to themselves they are not evil, for their poison is 264 their weapon, and by their sting they defend themselves. But as the elements of their poison do not agree with our elements – that is to say, as there is antagonism between these different elements, therefore, this antagonism is evil; but in reality as regards themselves they are good.
scorpians and serpents are not evil to man at all,they are used as imagery some times to portray evil,but they are not.so along with this imagery you have given us that is what is in the mind is it?
thats like saying all wildlife that bites or can harm you in the world are evil? lololololololol

no no no,im talking the evil that put Jesus Christ to the cross and much more…

the seven deadly sins ring any bells? are they a thing of the mind?

thats like saying love comes from the mind not the heart…

it a living thing that does exist.and we as Christians and the good people of this world should be fighting against it…

do you believe in the seven deadly sins at all?

is killing the un born baby an act of evil?if there is no God there who is there to do such an act because if nobody is there nothing gets done does it by you reasoning.its all in the mind…

of course there is evil in the world.

do you believe in Angels by any chance?
 
We celebrate death when God’s will has imposed itself for a soul to be detached from the physical frame and to be taken to the next world, NOT when WE impose our own will on the fate of another human being…
What does that have to do with the price of fish? Death is release, period, regardless of how it happens. Those whom go through death are in any state (according to bahai) better off than they were before, those whom were aborted were saved the misery of this world it seems for the infinitely good spirit world. I’m glad you think otherwise, really, we need to be united in the fight against abortion, but I can’t see how your beliefs coincide with it.
 
What does that have to do with the price of fish? Death is release, period, regardless of how it happens. Those whom go through death are in any state (according to bahai) better off than they were before, those whom were aborted were saved the misery of this world it seems for the infinitely good spirit world. I’m glad you think otherwise, really, we need to be united in the fight against abortion, but I can’t see how your beliefs coincide with it.
The Baha’i view of the sanctity of life is somewhat distinct from that of other faiths that I am aware of. We do believe that God intends for us is to develop spiritually, and progress in the spiritual worlds after the death of our body. But it would be completely incorrect to think that we therefore do not value physical life. On the contrary, our physical life on earth is essential, and is something to be cherished and not wasted. That means not only that premature death should be avoided, but also that our lives should not be wasted by living a life of selfishness or hatred. We are given this time on earth to grow both physically and spiritually, and importantly, that is the only way that God creates new humans.

Baha’is believe that the Kingdom of God on earth is realized when the great majority of people love and worship God, and act towards one another as God intended, with love respect and kindness, they work hard to serve God and their fellow man, they raise children who do the same. Human civilization will progress both materially and spiritually, war will be ended, education be made universal. As Isaiah said, “They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.”

This is what our physical life on earth can and will be, it is good and wonderful, and a gift from God. But, we are still spiritual beings, and after a life well lived on earth, our eternal home is with God in His heavenly kingdom.
 
scorpians and serpents are not evil to man at all,…

do you believe in Angels by any chance?
Thanks for your reply door mouse…

On the subject of angels… I’m glad you asked about it…

From the Writings:

And now, concerning His words: “And He shall send His angels…” By “angels” is meant those who, reinforced by the power of the spirit, have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations, and have clothed themselves with the attributes of the most exalted Beings and of the Cherubim.

~ Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 78

By angels is meant the divine confirmations and heavenly powers. Angels are also those holy souls who have severed attachment to the earthly world, who are free from the fetters of self and passion and who have attached their hearts to the Divine Realm and the Merciful Kingdom. They are of the Kingdom, heavenly; they are of the Merciful One, divine. They are the manifestations of the divine grace and the dawns of spiritual bounty.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha v3, p. 508

🙂
 
Thanks for your reply door mouse…

On the subject of angels… I’m glad you asked about it…

From the Writings:

And now, concerning His words: “And He shall send His angels…” By “angels” is meant those who, reinforced by the power of the spirit, have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations, and have clothed themselves with the attributes of the most exalted Beings and of the Cherubim.

~ Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 78

*By angels is meant the divine confirmations and heavenly powers. Angels are also those holy souls who have severed attachment to the earthly world, who are free from the fetters of self and passion and who have attached their hearts to the Divine Realm and the Merciful Kingdom. They are of the Kingdom, heavenly; they are of the Merciful One, divine. They are the manifestations of the divine grace and the dawns of spiritual bounty.[ml/I]

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha v3, p. 508

:)*

Good, I’m glad you believe in angels.

What about fallen angels like lucifer ?
 
Yet my point stands, God leaves his creation to corruption, for death and he has no intention of fixing it. Ultimately this suggests one thing to me, that hte Bahai God considers death a good thing. Tell me, do you consider death a good thing? In all of its ramifications?
Baha’is consider the Will of God a good thing, whether we are to be physically dead or alive. He decides when we need to move onto the next realm of existence. That is not to say that were we to align our lives to His exhortations and teachings we cannot prolong our physical lives. Indeed, the Guardian of the Bahai Faith does say that were mankind to adhere to the principles revealed by Baha’u’llah, human life will be extended dramatically, but it will never come to a stage where physical existence and the laws of physics are abolished altogether, resulting in NO PHYSICAL DEATH. This goes against every principle of physical creation. We will die. But our true identity continues to pursue a life of supreme consciousness for eternity, in the form of a human soul…

Baha’u’llah indicates that just as the world of the womb is “contained” within this one, this world is similarly “contained” within the spiritual realm and as a result, souls in the spiritual realm can directly influence the hearts and minds of men still living in the physical realm.

It’s interesting that doormouse mentions angels, because this is one of my favourite Bahai quotations from Baha’u’llah:

Intone, O My servant, the verses of God that have been received by thee,
as intoned by them who have drawn nigh unto Him,
that the sweetness of thy melody may kindle thine own soul,
and attract the hearts of all men. Whoso reciteth, in the privacy of his chamber,
the verses revealed by God, the scattering angels of the Almighty
shall scatter abroad the fragrance of the words uttered by his mouth,
and shall cause the heart of every righteous man to throb.
Though he may, at first, remain unaware of its effect, yet the virtue
of the grace vouchsafed unto him must needs sooner or later exercise
its influence upon his soul. Thus have the mysteries of the Revelation
of God been decreed by virtue of the Will of Him
Who is the Source of power and wisdom.
But my ultimate point has not been addressed that God leaves the world and the universe to revel in evil forever, God does not put everything to rights, death reigns forever and has not been defeated.
God most certainly does not leave the universe to revel in evil forever. He has provided tremendous guidance on how to overcome evil, both individually (through Abrahamic Revelations) and as a collective global society (through the Bahai Revelation) and this according to the Bahai Revelation is one of the clear and primary purposes of religion. Again, were we to adhere to His Will through His successive Revelations we would conquer spiritual death AS WELL AS bring about a glorious Kingdom of God on earth.

God is spirit and the true eternal realm where we belong is in His embrace as spiritual beings.
 
Good, I’m glad you believe in angels.

What about fallen angels like lucifer ?
Usually angels are meant to describe the purity and evanescence of the soul.

Sorry… No supernatural lucifers in our Faith…😉

that mythology about Lucifer as a fallen angel and war in heaven are mostly for us considered a story having little literal meaning in spite of the literally masterpiece by John Milton.

But usually those who oppose the new Manifestation of God are associated with the anti-Christ or Dajjal…

We do not believe in Anti-Christ in the sense the Christians do. Anyone who violently and determinedly sought to oppose the Manifestation could be called an “anti-Christ,” such as the Vazir in the Báb’s day, Haji Mirza Aqasi.
Code:
(Shoghi Effendi, High Endeavours -  Messages to Alaska, p. 69)
The word “satanic” can be seen in the Baha’i writings but usually not in the sense it is understood by some who accept a “literal supernatural being” like the fallen angel. Here are some examples of how we use the term “satanic”:

***Peace is the foundation of God; war is satanic institution.

Code:
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 231)
What causes the change in the individuality? It comes through the acquirement of evil habits. God originally endowed man with an individuality which enjoyed that which was beneficial and shunned the drug; but man through his evil habits changes this creation and transforms the divine illumination into satanic darkness.
Code:
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 133)
Baha’u’llah uses the term "satanic as follows:

Perplexing and difficult as this may appear, the still greater task of converting satanic strength into heavenly power is one that We have been empowered to accomplish. The Force capable of such a transformation transcendeth the potency of the Elixir itself. The Word of God, alone, can claim the distinction of being endowed with the capacity required for so great and far-reaching a change.
Code:
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 200)
😉
 
In the other thread Porknpie stated

I would like to state categorically that the Bahai Faith acknowledges that Jesus was the Son of God incarnate, and although the term “Prophet” (a term that Jesus used to describe Himself btw) is used in several places to broadly describe these Unique Individuals, it is not intended to diminish the Sonship of Jesus, or the Friendship of Muhammad, or the station of any of the Founders of Global Religions.

So to base an argument of “contradiction” upon the use of a term used by Jesus itself,seems very unfair to deny Baha’u’llah as being a Voice of God for this Day:)
No disrespect but actually it is not unfair to state contradiction because the word of God states if ANYONE teaches a gospel other then what I have taught stay away from them it is not from God.
 
No disrespect but actually it is not unfair to state contradiction because the word of God states if ANYONE teaches a gospel other then what I have taught stay away from them it is not from God.
Dear friend with no disrespect to yourself, if you study the Word of Jesus concerning false Prophets or even the anti-Christ you will find quite clearly that Baha’u’llah does not fit His (Christ) descriptions, the very opposite.

Also if you feel that the teachings of Baha’u’llah are different to the teachings of Christ, again with respect to you, they must be in your own mind, for millions of people see otherwise.
Such as myself, today I am a stronger and dare I say better Christian through the teachings of Baha’u’llah. And may I also say that no Baha’i leaves their belief in Christ behind just because they now identify as Baha’i. As confirmed by the book of Revelation.
 
Dear friend with no disrespect to yourself, if you study the Word of Jesus concerning false Prophets or even the anti-Christ you will find quite clearly that Baha’u’llah does not fit His (Christ) descriptions, the very opposite.

Also if you feel that the teachings of Baha’u’llah are different to the teachings of Christ, again with respect to you, they must be in your own mind, for millions of people see otherwise.
Such as myself, today I am a stronger and dare I say better Christian through the teachings of Baha’u’llah. And may I also say that no Baha’i leaves their belief in Christ behind just because they now identify as Baha’i. As confirmed by the book of Revelation.
Actually I must disaree with you. The teachings of Christ are not of my own mind. If they were I would be Protestant.

I do not and cannot interpret scripture. Christ left us the Church. Scripture is taught to us by the Church with the mind of Christ by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
 
Example

Jesus told the Jews he would tear down the temple and rebuild it in 3 days. I would see that as the Jews did, Jesus would tear it down brick by brick and rebuild it.

But see the Church is who teaches us the mind of Jesus. His body is the temple that rose again from the dead on the third day.

If I were to define the bible for you it could and probally would seem to be in direct conflict with the word of GOd.

But see scripture does not conflict scripture. If it does it is because of human understanding not divine.

That is why admit I have no authority to define scripture. The Church does.
 
Dear friend with no disrespect to yourself, if you study the Word of Jesus concerning false Prophets or even the anti-Christ you will find quite clearly that Baha’u’llah does not fit His (Christ) descriptions, the very opposite.

Also if you feel that the teachings of Baha’u’llah are different to the teachings of Christ, again with respect to you, they must be in your own mind, for millions of people see otherwise.
Such as myself, today I am a stronger and dare I say better Christian through the teachings of Baha’u’llah. And may I also say that no Baha’i leaves their belief in Christ behind just because they now identify as Baha’i. As confirmed by the book of Revelation.
Also you admited yourself that the word of God clearly defines your faith to be opposite.:confused:

ANd how can you still have the faith of Christ and still identifywith Bahai.

Could you quote revelation for me where it makes this claim. thanks.
 
Actually I must disaree with you. The teachings of Christ are not of my own mind. If they were I would be Protestant.

I do not and cannot interpret scripture. Christ left us the Church. Scripture is taught to us by the Church with the mind of Christ by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
:clapping::tiphat::bowdown:
 
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