Baha'i Returns Thread: Ask Any of Many Baha'i

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The Catholic Church already leads the world in the areas of taking care of the poor, educating the uneducated, providing health care, standing up for the dignity of every person and, most importantly, bringing the hope of Christ to the world. We are happy for you to join us in any of these endeavors. What, specifically, is the Baha’i faith doing that is so unique? I know we have been through this before but I am still waiting for an answer.
I’ll post this again for you Steve 🙂 …(I asked a question at the end, which I would love you to answer please)

It’s taking a long time simply because too many people in the world are so distracted and engrossed by the thick veils which they have surrounded themselves with.

As the Universal House of Justice wrote, only yesterday, to the long-suffering Baha’is of Iran:

“Moreover, you know well that establishing the Kingdom of God in this turbulent world is no easy task. It requires unshakeable faith, complete reliance on God, high endeavour, an indomitable spirit, constant striving, and infinite patience and long-suffering.”

I posted a video called “Frontiers of Learning” on this thread a while back. Can you tell which other religious organization is doing the same thing as what is being shown in that video?
 
We do not believe that hell is a physical place. It is a state of being; a state in which one is separated completely from God and from every attribute of God; beauty, goodness, love, compassion, mercy, understanding, warmth, light… Hell is a very real “place”, but not physical. We believe the same about heaven. It is a state of being; of complete oneness with God. Does it rule out the physical? No. We may very well interact with the physical, but it will be a new heaven and a new earth. But like heaven, hell is not located in some specific place in the physical universe.
Steve,
. I like your definition and clarification here. One thing I was thinking today was that when we think of God as Love, and we turn away from God, then we deny ourselves the Love of God, which is essentially “not” being able to be in Heaven. Hence, we are in a state or condition of Hell, or remoteness from God.

O SON OF BEING!

Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
 
In my opinion, however, there is no need to dwell on any other aspect of the Baha’i faith until the claim that Baha’u’llah is the second coming of Christ is adequately explored; questioned and defended. If everything else that the Baha’i faith taught was true, it would not matter. I would hold Jesus Christ to the same standard. If Jesus has not been resurrected and has not defeated sin and death then nothing else that he said matters. We are to be pitied among all men.

We have touched upon this subject and when I challenged the Baha’i interpretation of the first 30 verses of Matthew 24, which in a nutshell claims that Jesus’ second coming will be subtle, obscure, and many people will, or have missed it, just as they missed his first coming, I never received a response to my specific points…
Steve,
. This is the first that I read of your request concerning Matthew Chapter 24, which I think should include the whole chapter, and probably the next.
. Please let us stay on track awhile and explore the claims of the Baha’is that Baha’u’llah was the One prophesied in the Bible because, as you say, if He was not, then nothing else matters. Nothing!
. As we know, there have always been many “false Christs” and Messiahs, both in Jesus time and since, including Baha’u’llah’s time, when many made such claims, even unto to today, such as Jim Jones, David Koresh, Sun Myung Moon, etc, etc…
. As there is much information on this to consider, let us begin where we can, from a few verses of Matthew, where he says
1 "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”
2 "“Therefore when you see the Abomination of Desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),”
  1. that He “is” coming
  2. That He refers us to Daniel
Also, specifically, Matthew 25:13, which can be paired to Matthew 24:36
. and Mark 13:32/33

Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.”

Mark 13:32-33 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come."

Matthew 25:13 ““Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.”
So a couple of things stand out here.
1 Jesus says that “we” don’t know the day and hour of His coming.
2 Jesus says that “He” does not know the day and hour of His coming.
3 He tells us to “Watch”

. On the third point, He says to us “Watch” in many places in the Bible

Hebrews 9:28

. “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
It would appear to me that He will appear to those who fulfill the conditions of His admonition to “Watch!”
and to “look for Him”
He will appear.
2 Peter 3:10 “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief”
Rev 3:3 "Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. "
Thes 5:2 “For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.”
When do we find out that a thief has come in the night? After he has come and gone. At least to those who are not watching, for they are asleep.
24:40 “Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”

24:41 “Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”
From this, we can conclude that one was “Watching” and one was not, in each case.
Steve, please forgive me for stopping here, but it is nearly 1 am… zzzzzzz

. (to be continued…)
 
Hi Servant. So that’s the reason for the questions, which, honestly I thought you knew already.

As I already said and I made a stance here, and to your invitation, thanks, but no thanks.

I don’t dispute that Baha’is don’t do good things which Catholics would find admirable. But so too are other religions and charitable organizations.

But Baha’i is not Catholicism. The spiritual dimension that governs us differs. I cannot be a Catholic and also a Baha’i but I can work with you in many things to do good as I could with any organizations depending on my disposition and availability.
Very good points here.
With regard to the assertion that the Baha’i Faith is doing something really new with regard to to social development in certain parts of the world, I have to agree with the Catholics here that the Church has done wonderful things for centuries, I personally worked closely with Caholics and Anglicans when in the Peace Corps.

The ultimate difference is the vision of the world and particularly the future, which can distinguish Baha’i activities, but they are far les developed than Christian activities, in general.
 
Social Development Projects are the term we use for Baha’i inspired projects around the world…

Examples include the following on a thread I had started a year ago on another forum:

bahaiforums.com/social-practices/9054-social-development-projects.html

Also see the following:

Social and Economic Development
Code:
**Links**
 
 
Very good points here.
With regard to the assertion that the Baha’i Faith is doing something really new with regard to to social development in certain parts of the world, I have to agree with the Catholics here that the Church has done wonderful things for centuries, I personally worked closely with Caholics and Anglicans when in the Peace Corps.

The ultimate difference is the vision of the world and particularly the future, which can distinguish Baha’i activities, but they are far les developed than Christian activities, in general.
With respect here jcc, I actually do not believe what is being striven for and being achieved in all Bahai clusters globally has been witnessed in ANY Catholic diocese.

ESPECIALLY, what is witnessed in the Frontiers of Learning video, and how Baha’is are empowering people of other religions even to be coordinators for Bahai activities in a community. This is unheard of, in my opinion, and speaks volumes for the uniting spirit of Baha’u’llahs Revelation and the validity of His claim to bring about total and complete ONENESS of the human race.

Labeling ourselves Baha’is, Christians, Muslims, etc etc speaks of divisions. Oneness has no label. Unity has no label. Bahai activities do not require anyone to be labelled a Bahai, it unites under the all-embracing shelter of the One God

THAT is the difference, and its a MONUMENTAL difference …
 
Labeling ourselves Baha’is, Christians, Muslims, etc etc speaks of divisions. Oneness has no label. Unity has no label. Bahai activities do not require anyone to be labelled a Bahai, it unites under the all-embracing shelter of the One God

THAT is the difference, and its a MONUMENTAL difference …
That is fine, until you want to talk about God and our relationship with Him.

Then, unity at the expense of truth is a FALSE oneness. It is illusory.
 
That is fine, until you want to talk about God and our relationship with Him.

Then, unity at the expense of truth is a FALSE oneness. It is illusory.
Nice try PR, but if the whole world comes together under one Fold, worshipping the one God of Abraham, it automatically IS Truth, no questions asked.
 
Besides, I’m still looking for some “reasoned explications” from you, regarding the progress of the soul after death

Whenever you’re ready…
 
Nice try PR,
Again, sarcasm is the protest of the weak. I rarely use it.
but if the whole world comes together under one Fold, worshipping the one God of Abraham, it automatically IS Truth, no questions asked.
On this, we are agreed.

However, what does this One God of Abraham say about His Son’s resurrection? Was it just a spiritual one? Is Jesus’ body rotting in the ground somewhere?

What does this One God of Abraham say about divorce and re-marriage? Is it just a life choice? Or is it adultery?

What does this One God of Abraham say about baptism? Does it save you? Or is it just getting wet?
 
Besides, I’m still looking for some “reasoned explications” from you, regarding the progress of the soul after death

Whenever you’re ready…
It’s already been explicated.

Do you have a specific question that hasn’t already been addressed?
 
Steve,
. This is the first that I read of your request concerning Matthew Chapter 24, which I think should include the whole chapter, and probably the next.
. Please let us stay on track awhile and explore the claims of the Baha’is that Baha’u’llah was the One prophesied in the Bible because, as you say, if He was not, then nothing else matters. Nothing!
. As we know, there have always been many “false Christs” and Messiahs, both in Jesus time and since, including Baha’u’llah’s time, when many made such claims, even unto to today, such as Jim Jones, David Koresh, Sun Myung Moon, etc, etc…
. As there is much information on this to consider, let us begin where we can, from a few verses of Matthew, where he says
1 "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”
2 "“Therefore when you see the Abomination of Desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),”
From this we know
I have no idea how anything you have quoted supports your position. Yes, we are all aware of the fact that no one knows when that day will come and that we must keep watch. But we are keeping watch over our own souls because that day will come like a thief in the night, when we least expect it and we must be prepared. We should live everyday as if it is our last.

But Matthew 16 makes it very clear that when that day does come, all the world will know. He will come in glory, with a loud trumpet call and all will know that he is Lord.
 
Steve,
. I like your definition and clarification here. One thing I was thinking today was that when we think of God as Love, and we turn away from God, then we deny ourselves the Love of God, which is essentially “not” being able to be in Heaven. Hence, we are in a state or condition of Hell, or remoteness from God.

O SON OF BEING!

Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
👍
 
It’s taking a long time simply because too many people in the world are so distracted and engrossed by the thick veils which they have surrounded themselves with.

As the Universal House of Justice wrote, only yesterday, to the long-suffering Baha’is of Iran:

“Moreover, you know well that establishing the Kingdom of God in this turbulent world is no easy task. It requires unshakeable faith, complete reliance on God, high endeavour, an indomitable spirit, constant striving, and infinite patience and long-suffering.”
What happened to the “new heaven and new earth”. It seems nothing has changed with this second coming. We are still having to deal with “this turbulent world”, are we not?

But what I am interested in is the “plan”; this new, unique plan that the world has never before seen, that will leave us all in “awe”. What is that, in your own words, if you don’t mind.
I posted a video called “Frontiers of Learning” on this thread a while back. Can you tell which other religious organization is doing the same thing as what is being shown in that video?
Well, I would probably have to go back and review it again, but to be honest I couldn’t tell what they were doing that was even remotely new or unique. The theme was basically “community building”, with videos of various groups of people studying, or carrying water, or riding bicycles, or singing songs. What is new about helping people build communities? We have been doing this for 2000 years. Please tell me what I have missed because if this video is suppose to make me go “wow”, it fell very, very short. Now, I will admit that I did not devote an entire hour and 26 minutes of my life to watch this thing. I did jump around so it is quite possible that I missed the “aha” moment somewhere.

If you would be kind enough, would you please explain what is so wonderful and unique about what the Baha’i are doing in this video? Just kind of boil it down for us.

Thanks.
 
Steve,
. This is the first that I read of your request concerning Matthew Chapter 24, which I think should include the whole chapter, and probably the next.
. Please let us stay on track awhile and explore the claims of the Baha’is that Baha’u’llah was the One prophesied in the Bible because, as you say, if He was not, then nothing else matters. Nothing!
. As we know, there have always been many “false Christs” and Messiahs, both in Jesus time and since, including Baha’u’llah’s time, when many made such claims, even unto to today, such as Jim Jones, David Koresh, Sun Myung Moon, etc, etc…
. As there is much information on this to consider, let us begin where we can, from a few verses of Matthew, where he says
1 "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”
2 "“Therefore when you see the Abomination of Desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),”
 
“What happened to the “new heaven and new earth”. It seems nothing has changed with this second coming.”

Well from where I am a lot has changed in the past hundred and seventy years…

We don’t see the world or the universe the way we did before so in a real sense we live today in a new heaven and new earth…

With improved communications and the view of the interrelatedness of the planet we are far more closer to uniting the planet than our great great grandparents…

Today we have an International Court of Arbitration and the U.N. maybe not the best yet but far better than we had before!

👍

Principles of Baha’u’llah include

equality of men and women…

oneness of humanity

end of slavery

universal education

a world parliament

international court of arbitration

We’ve come a long way but much work is left before us!

👍
 
“What happened to the “new heaven and new earth”. It seems nothing has changed with this second coming.”

Well from where I am a lot has changed in the past hundred and seventy years…

We don’t see the world or the universe the way we did before so in a real sense we live today in a new heaven and new earth…
Really? So we don’t need God to make a new heaven and a new earth, we just need to learn more about the world around us? Sorry, the fact that we may know more about the world we live in does not change that world. It just means we know more about it.
With improved communications and the view of the interrelatedness of the planet we are far more closer to uniting the planet than our great great grandparents…

Today we have an International Court of Arbitration and the U.N. maybe not the best yet but far better than we had before!
And so God is basically subject to waiting for mankind to develop better communication techniques in order for him to bring unity to the world? What does this have to do with Baha’u’llah or the second coming of Christ?
Principles of Baha’u’llah include

equality of men and women…

oneness of humanity

end of slavery

universal education

a world parliament

international court of arbitration

We’ve come a long way but much work is left before us!

👍
Wonderful. Except that when Jesus truly comes again none of these things will be a concern. That is what a new heaven and a new earth are all about. We will be united under the kingship of Jesus Christ. We will have no need for universal education or international courts or a world parliament. This will be the work of God, not man. The old world will pass away.

When
 
What are we supposed to draw from those teachings? That when Mirza Hussain was created that some of those good things ( think the globalism and downright near communism of bahai is dangerous) were suddenly brought into the world? The British ended slavery within their empire when Mirza Hussain was a young man, insofar as equality of women and men are concerned, what are we talking about here? Women do not qualify for a place on the universal council in bahai, so this equality must be severely qualified as not being the thing I think you want to suggest.
 
I have no idea how anything you have quoted supports your position. Yes, we are all aware of the fact that no one knows when that day will come and that we must keep watch.

But Matthew 16 makes it very clear that when that day does come, all the world will know. He will come in glory, with a loud trumpet call and all will know that he is Lord.
Steve,
I am going to try and take these things one at a time, ok?

In Matthew 24 Jesus said one of the conditions would be that the Gospel would be spread to all nations. So just viewing that one Promise of Jesus, consider the following.

.“Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?” (Matt 24,3)

…Christ then gave His first promise to His disciples in the following words:

“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness… then shall the end come.”… (Matt 24,14)

…By 1844 it was being taught even in the interior of Africa, not by solitary missionaries, but on an organized scale. A commercial history of East Africa states: “Christian missions began their activities amongst the African people in 1844.”… (Year Book & Guide to East Africa - 1953)

…“In 1804 the British and Foreign Bible Society was organized. Students of the prophetic word felt at the time that these agencies were coming in fulfilment of the prophecy…” (Spicer - Our Day in the Light of Prophecy)

Before 1804, the Bible had already been printed and circulated in fifty languages. In 1816 the American Bible Society was formed. George Storrs in the newspaper, Midnight Cry, on May 4th, 1843, stated that these two societies (British and American) with their innumerable branches were spreading the Gospel of Christ in every part of the world.

G.S. Faber in ‘Eight Dissertations’, which was completed in the very year of greatest prophetic fervour, 1844, declares: “The stupendous endeavours of one gigantic community to convey the Scriptures in every language to every part of the globe may well deserve to be considered as an eminent sign even of these eventful times. Unless I be much mistaken, such endeavours are preparatory to the final grand diffusion of Christianity, which is the theme of so many inspired prophets, and which cannot be far distant in the present day.”

M.H. Goyer writes in his book on prophetic fulfilment: “The British and Foreign Bible Society (for one example) has issued, since its foundation in 1804, over 421 million copies of the Scriptures, in practically every country known throughout the globe.”

In ‘Our Day in the Light of Prophecy’, Spicer wrote that the Gospel in his day had been spread “ninety-five per cent of the inhabitants of the earth.” He added: “It was in 1842 that five treaty-ports in China were opened to commerce and to missions-- advance steps in the opening of all China to the Gospel. In 1844 Turkey was prevailed upon to recognize the right of the Moslems to become Christians, reversing all Moslem tradition. In 1844 Allen Gardiner established the South American Mission. In 1842 Livingstone’s determination was formed to open the African interior.”

Dr. A. T. Pierson in ‘Modern Mission Century’ wrote: “India, Siam, Burma, China, Japan, Turkey, Africa, Mexico, South America… were successively and successfully entered… from 1853 to 1858… seven different countries, together embracing half the world’s population.”
The above makes for a pretty strong case that the spreading of the Gospel to all nations prophecy can be marked “Fulfilled”
Then we will go on to another point (cont)
 
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