Baha'i Returns Thread: Ask Any of Many Baha'i

[arthra]

Rinnie…

I recognize this teaching may be new to you… I respect your views but my only purpose here is to present the best I can what the Baha’i view is…hoping you’ll understand.

Rinnie wrote:

What about the People who did not reject Jesus? The ones who took him at his word and at his promise that he would come down from the sky the same way he went up.

My comment:

The people that recognized Jesus were saved…like the thief who was crucified with the Lord … He’s in paradise.

As to the return of the Lord in the heavens we take this to be allegorical and symbolic…

"…there is the subject of Christ’s coming from heaven: it is clearly stated in many places in the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He will go to heaven. So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it is written: “For I came down from heaven”; and also in verse 42 we find: “And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?” Also in John, chapter 3, verse 13: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 103)

 

[daler]

He is seated at the RIGHT hand of the Father. Does that not give you a hint. Jesus said he will come AGAIN IN GLORY. Who comes in Glory to judge the livng and the dead but GOD. Jesus is GOD.

. The word “Glory” in Arabic (not so different than Aramaic 2000 years ago) is “Baha”

The phrase “Glory of God” in Arabic is “Baha’u’llah”

You are right, that the Bible teaches that Christ shall return in the Glory of God. We believe that “the Glory of God” was a Person, whom we call Baha’u’llah, the Glory of God, and that His coming is in fulfillment of that which was promised in the Holy Scriptures.

Here is a site about the Baha’i Faith. If you want, you can familiarize yourself with some of what we believe from reading a portion of this. It might help the conversation a little better. Thank you

bahai.org.uk/the-bah-faith/the-bah-teachings

 

[rinnie]

. To clarify, Jesus and Baha’u’llah are two different people, born 1800 years apart. Now consider John the Baptist when he was asked if he was Elijah. He said “No, I am not him.” Then they asked, “Art thou that prophet?” Again, he said, “No, I am not”
. Yet when Jesus was asked, He said that John the Baptist was Elijah. How is this reconciled?
. John was not Elijah. They were born many centuries apart, had their own DNA, etc.
But the spiritual essence and station was the same spirit and essence which returned in John the Baptist.
. The example is given of the rose which returns each spring. We could ask the rose, “Are you the rose of last spring?” It would say, “No, I am not”. and it would be speaking the truth. Yet we could also say that the rose has returned, for it brings the fragrance and beauty of last year’s rose back to us again. And what is the purpose of the rose but to give us fragrance and beauty. Hence, this year’s rose is the return of last year’s rose.

. So when we apply this to Jesus and Baha’u’llah, we see two different Roses. Yet, as each is the barer of God’s Message, the fragrance and beauty of the Divine Attributes of God came before and has again returned. That is what is meant.

. The Jews rejected Jesus partly because their Holy Book said that Elijah must come first, from heaven, for he was taken up to heaven. As John did not come down from the physical heaven, they rejected both him and Jesus.
. but as Jesus said that John was Elijah, “If ye will accept it”, the prophecy had in deed been fulfilled. Just not in the literal way expected by the Jews.

. “I testify before God that each one of these Manifestations hath been sent down through the operation of the Divine Will and Purpose, that each one hath been the bearer of a specific Message, that each hath been entrusted with a divinely revealed Book.” Baha’u’llah

No no no. In Luke read he will go BEFORE him in the SPIRIT and POWER of Elijah to win the hearts …

Yes John the Baptist was the forerunner before Christ.

Look how he said I will baptise you of water but HE, will baptise you in the Spirit. John himself said he was not worthy to even strap the shoes of Jesus.

 

[daler]

No no no. In Luke read he will go BEFORE him in the SPIRIT and POWER of Elijah to win the hearts …

Yes John the Baptist was the forerunner before Christ.

Look how he said I will baptise you of water but HE, will baptise you in the Spirit. John himself said he was not worthy to even strap the shoes of Jesus.

Yes, you are correct, and we are in agreement with this. Yet the Jews interpreted that the same Elijah, was to come before the Messiah. They had him beheaded, because they did not accept him. The same reason they crucified Jesus. They got it wrong on both accounts.

Similarly, the Bab (Gate) appeared in 1844 to proclaim the coming of Baha’u’llah (Glory of God) in 1863. These dates correspond to Daniel when he spoke of 1260 and 1280, for these dates correspond exactly with another calendar.
1844 AD = 1260 AH
1863 AD = 1280 AH

You will find the number 1260 in Revelation as well, as 42 months, 42 X 30 (days per month) = 1260
Also, the time (360) times (720) and a half (180) adds up to 1260 from Daniel.
This is also referred to in Revelation as 3 1/2 days (of years), again 1260

This may throw you off at first, but what it brings into play is the Muslims, for it is their calendar year 1260 which is being referred to.

I can present more information on this if you wish.

Thank you, daler

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

This is a lie, again Philo, you make up stuff to suit your own agenda.
Firstly, we are not “scientists”, we are Baha’is, those that take the Word of God, as CLEARLY revealed in the Baha’i Writings as the truth, as provided by God, our Father and Creator. What He says trumps all of science.

Well no, you aren’t scientists, but you do engage in this near scientism to the point where anything supernatural is anathema to you except for two miracles (the creation of the world and the birth of Jesus) and only then you seem to reluctantly admit to those, saying “its not really important that Jesus was born of a virgin, what really matters was his message”, (which you still distort anyway). Scientism is not science specifically, I’ll clarify and say its either verificationism or naturalism, one of these ideas granted the two exceptions i acknowledge bahai believing. You cannot honestly tell me you would prefer a virgin birth over Jesus being a mere creature created and conceived naturally, I can’t believe that from a bahai.

Baha’is, while believing in miracles do not see them as something “supernatural”, Baha’is believe in the absolute connectivity of every single part of Creation, those that are seen and unseen. God is not responsible for miracles, His creation is “designed” to produce them. The Virgin Birth is part of the supreme “unknown-ness” of God’s Creation and is a sign of how the advent of His Manifestation creates circumstances which are FAR removed from the intellect of human understanding, bringing together a renewed vibrancy within EVERY SINGLE ATOM in the known universe, miracles, never before witnessed are an outcome of His Manifestation.

Are you trying to prove that I was right all along? You don’t acknowledge the supernatural character of the virgin birth? Of course the process of How it is done is unknown, no one knows how God interacts with the universe, but the point is that he has the very real ability to do so. Not only with the virgin birth but many times, even to this day I believe, But in denying the supernatural character of the virgin birth what are you saying? Are you saying that via some natural process Mary actually and naturally conceived Christ without the holy spirit indwelling her? This is against what the angel says (despite bahai denying God’s messengers and their existence). That via a certain process of natural and incidental accidents Mary gave birth to Jesus as a result of a random genetic trait? Can we really conclude from that, that we should qualify that a miracle? God had no hand in it? I thought that when a bahai once gave me the idea that mary was a (God forbid me repeating it) transvestite something of an attempt to answer from being so desperate, I didn’t know it could be considered as plausible in bahai. So bottomline, the virgin birth is not a miracle, it is a genetic accident that happened somehow, that God always intended, mary was not a normal woman it seems.

So, you’re now saying that the story of Elijah and Jezebel is a historical fact, word for word??? Really?

I certaintly believe it is, there is no hint of it being this deeper allegorical tale. But here we come again to the realiable bahai ability to interpret anything they don’t like as being representative of something. Tell me what it represents in reality when Elijah is portrayed as killing the priests of Ba’al and then fearing for his life, or that when the bones of Elisha are touched they raise someone to life again. Did these prophets actually exist? Or are they imaginary figures who never really existed? What did Moses do to egypt? Was all that fiction? Did Moses just lead a few hundred out of egypt, they lived int he desert for forty years because Moses was hopelessly lost and they scavanged on what they could while constantly being attacked by pagans and then finally migrating to the promised land? No wonder the israelites complained huh?

Yes, there was a time when miracles were needed to establish divinity for certain populations. While miracles, as attested by daler, were performed by Baha’u’llah, not once was it used to establish His Divinity. He has revolutionized the hearts and souls of ALL peoples, and His Throne will be established, with or without any of us:

What miracles? That he wasn’t shot? See Mirza hussain did not revolutionise all hearts, the only argument you can legitimatelly say is that he was against slavery. But anti Slavery sentiments had been established as law in britain when he was twenty, and I don’t think he had established himself as a “prophet” at such a point. But the point that still has not been addressed is that miracles were what the apostles used int heir arguments against the jews (see peter’s speech to the jews in acts 2) to prove Christ jesus to them. Jesus was a man attested to by God by miracles. The text is quite clear, there was no excuse the jews rejecting him and Jesus himself points this out to the jews that he has done many miracles and they can find no fault in him.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I think if you follow the news today Steve you’ll note that more and more people are coming around to accept the principles of Baha’u’llah … The equality of men and women…A represenattive world government …peace of earth… An international court of arbitration…abolishing prejudice…

so while there may be only seven million Baha’is and we’ve only been around for oh a hundred and seventy years there’s a lot of our teachings being adopted.

But hey the church has been around a lot longer and is far more numerous…!

I would suggest the teachings being adopted come from liberal people in western europe, there is no way you can prove a link between these ideas like one world government (the same people who also advocate as much abortion as possible) originate solely from your prophet. The other sentiments like peace on earth are hardly original to bahai, there has always been a vision by the various religious authorities and people in any given society of a utopia and ultimately that has never amounted to anything. The muslims would soon see you dead and the Christians would soon die before accepting the bahai gospel.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie…

I recognize this teaching may be new to you… I respect your views but my only purpose here is to present the best I can what the Baha’i view is…hoping you’ll understand.

Rinnie wrote:

What about the People who did not reject Jesus? The ones who took him at his word and at his promise that he would come down from the sky the same way he went up.

My comment:

The people that recognized Jesus were saved…like the thief who was crucified with the Lord … He’s in paradise.

As to the return of the Lord in the heavens we take this to be allegorical and symbolic…

"…there is the subject of Christ’s coming from heaven: it is clearly stated in many places in the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He will go to heaven. So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it is written: “For I came down from heaven”; and also in verse 42 we find: “And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?” Also in John, chapter 3, verse 13: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 103)

But wait a minute the thief on the cross repented. Remember he said I deserve what I got. I did wrong. Then he said Jesus remember me when you come into YOUR KINGDOM.

Yes he knew and accepted Jesus as God. There is only ONE KINGDOM of God do you not agree? How could Jesus remember the good theif when he comes into the kingdom of God if he is not God himself? Or did Jesus have another kingdom we did not know about.

Yes as far as the people who knew Jesus and grew up of course they did indeed reject him.

And the Jews began to gumble when Jesus said.(Listen closely what I am going to say here) Jesus said I AM get it I AM AGAIN, Jesus said I AM the bread that comes down from heaven.

Then he tells the same Jews I TELL you the TRUTH before Abraham was even born I AM.

How could that be if he were not God.

Jesus said. I have brought YOU glory on EARTH not Father glorify ME in your presence with the GLORY I HAD WITH YOU before the WORLD BEGAN!!

Think and pray on this.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Yes, as a part-time magician and psychological illusionist, I can attest to the fact that framed correctly, “wonders” and “sorcery” can account to something, I’ve seen it. Were to choose to I could easily perform miracles of an ilk to start my own religion.

But the intellect and human soul demand more than these things. Depth of spiritual message has a much more profound effect than any “wonder”, Jesus warned us of it Himself

So are you comparing yourself, a magician to the Lord of all creation, Jesus Christ, your creator and the sole reason for your salvation, by which no other name you can be saved by. Mirza HUssain’s name will not save you, Jesus’s name will and this is attested to by a book you supposebly believe, to a magician. You are comparing the apostles, Jesus, MOses, Elijah, and others beyond reckoning, to magicians. Have you thought through what your saying? But there has been no attempt to answer the examples I have given from the scrripture. I would say the one thing Jesus warned us about was snakes and vipers who come in sheeps clothing but are inwardly ravenous wolves, I say your prophet fits that desciption.

 

[rinnie]

Yes, you are correct, and we are in agreement with this. Yet the Jews interpreted that the same Elijah, was to come before the Messiah. They had him beheaded, because they did not accept him. The same reason they crucified Jesus. They got it wrong on both accounts.

Similarly, the Bab (Gate) appeared in 1844 to proclaim the coming of Baha’u’llah (Glory of God) in 1863. These dates correspond to Daniel when he spoke of 1260 and 1280, for these dates correspond exactly with another calendar.
1844 AD = 1260 AH
1863 AD = 1280 AH

You will find the number 1260 in Revelation as well, as 42 months, 42 X 30 (days per month) = 1260
Also, the time (360) times (720) and a half (180) adds up to 1260 from Daniel.
This is also referred to in Revelation as 3 1/2 days (of years), again 1260

This may throw you off at first, but what it brings into play is the Muslims, for it is their calendar year 1260 which is being referred to.

I can present more information on this if you wish.

Thank you, daler

Hold on here. Now you were saying even Jesus said John the Baptist was EliJah.

Thats not what Jesus said. They asked Jesus if John was Elijah and Jesus said if you are WILLING to accept it. he has come and will come.

When Jesus said John was Elijah he was saying in the Sprirt and power as I stated.

When John was asked he was saying no I am not Physically him because he was not. John was born to Elizaveth and Zacharia.

Go back to when Elizabeth saw Jesus and John leaped with Joy with the Holy Spirit. Making more sense now?

 

[rinnie]

Yes, you are correct, and we are in agreement with this. Yet the Jews interpreted that the same Elijah, was to come before the Messiah. They had him beheaded, because they did not accept him. The same reason they crucified Jesus. They got it wrong on both accounts.

Similarly, the Bab (Gate) appeared in 1844 to proclaim the coming of Baha’u’llah (Glory of God) in 1863. These dates correspond to Daniel when he spoke of 1260 and 1280, for these dates correspond exactly with another calendar.
1844 AD = 1260 AH
1863 AD = 1280 AH

You will find the number 1260 in Revelation as well, as 42 months, 42 X 30 (days per month) = 1260
Also, the time (360) times (720) and a half (180) adds up to 1260 from Daniel.
This is also referred to in Revelation as 3 1/2 days (of years), again 1260

This may throw you off at first, but what it brings into play is the Muslims, for it is their calendar year 1260 which is being referred to.

I can present more information on this if you wish.

Thank you, daler

But the Glory of God has not come again in Glory. when he does he will raise the dead from the tombs and we will have judgement day. And a new heaven and New earth.

And the Mormans God bless their soul have predicted the comming of God for years and got it wrong every single time.

Again to predict the day the Lord is comming is to be in direct conflict with the true word of God himself.

He said no one know but God himself. He said he will come like a thief in the night. If the man of the house knew when the thief would come he would wait up and catch him.

No one know but the Father and the Son, and they are like the dog on the beans commercial they ain’t telling!

 

[rinnie]

That is why we are told to repent, confess and get things right with God and one another right now.

Time is indeed running out.

My Mother said one time, today is the last day for someone. And is that not true. The world will end at this second I write this and the second you read this for someone. Let us just pray for them that they got it right with God while here on this earth. And let us pray for that soul to reach heaven.

THe world as we know it will end for someone. But may we all let the words of God reach our ears today before its too late.

May we confess our sins, eat and drink of eternal life. Live out the commands given to us the best we can.

And above all Love one another as God has loved us.

 

[rinnie]

Above all do not be afraid when the world ends.

Rejoice and be glad. For that is the day our dear Lord comes down from the Sky and takes us to our eternal life in Christ.

there will be some people in this world not only Spiritually but also body and soul. They will not experiece death. How great is the mercy of God.

For my soul I pray, real merciful and ask for prayers, and to thank him to be given the grace to just write this and to praise his name.

In the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit Amen.

 

[daler]

But the Glory of God has not come again in Glory. when he does he will raise the dead from the tombs and we will have judgement day. And a new heaven and New earth.

And the Mormans God bless their soul have predicted the comming of God for years and got it wrong every single time.

Again to predict the day the Lord is comming is to be in direct conflict with the true word of God himself.

He said no one know but God himself. He said he will come like a thief in the night. If the man of the house knew when the thief would come he would wait up and catch him.

No one know but the Father and the Son, and they are like the dog on the beans commercial they ain’t telling!

Rinnie,
. Raising the dead is referring to those who are spiritually dead, or asleep. When Jesus said, “Let the dead bury the dead”, He was talking about letting those who are “spiritually” dead bury the dead man. Right? He wasn’t talking about some dead people burying other dead people. Right?

. The “tomb” of unbelief follows. People may appear outwardly to be alive, but they are spiritually “dead”, in their graves (spiritually).
. It is the same as when He says, “Eyes they have, but see not. Ears they have, but hear not.” The guys he was talking about had physical eyes and ears, but could not recognize Him or accept His Words. Right?

. . Consider how parables work, and metaphors. They are “symbols”, representing a reality above and beyond the meaning of the symbol itself. By “Heaven” is meant the Heaven of Revelation and, as the earth receives the rain from the physical heavens, whenever there is a New Heaven of Revelation there is a New Earth of Understanding the meaning of the Words of God which rain down upon the hearts of men.

. I don’t think one can compare the Writings of Baha’u’llah with Mormon literature. The Adventist Movement did begin with the strong belief that the Lord would return in 1844, or thereabouts. The trouble is, people were looking up into the sky, the physical heavens, and it did not happen that way. It happened in “Elam”, where Daniel had his great vision foretelling both the coming of Christ and His crucifixion, and the Bab and Baha’u’llah. Also, Jeremiah said that “The Lord shall set “His” throne in Elam.” Elam is SW Persia, now called Iran.

Yes, we agree that no one would know but God Himself, for Jesus said:

"Mark 13:32 “But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”

Can’t argue with that…

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The problem isn’t that there are parables, allegorical stories or the such in the bible. its that the bahai make every narrative which has a miracle or osmething they do not like, but which would have been perfectly understood by the culture of that day as being serious, and actual, a metaphore. Its simply too convenient of an interpretative framework which is nowhere understood in the earliest orthodox writings, bahais actually relate more to the gnostics who would have gladlysaid Jesus didn’;t actually raise from the dead. Does this not disturb the bahai? That they are more like the gnostics than the legitimate successors of the apostles?

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie,
. Raising the dead is referring to those who are spiritually dead, or asleep. When Jesus said, “Let the dead bury the dead”, He was talking about letting those who are “spiritually” dead bury the dead man. Right? He wasn’t talking about some dead people burying other dead people. Right?

. The “tomb” of unbelief follows. People may appear outwardly to be alive, but they are spiritually “dead”, in their graves (spiritually).
. It is the same as when He says, “Eyes they have, but see not. Ears they have, but hear not.” The guys he was talking about had physical eyes and ears, but could not recognize Him or accept His Words. Right?

. . Consider how parables work, and metaphors. They are “symbols”, representing a reality above and beyond the meaning of the symbol itself. By “Heaven” is meant the Heaven of Revelation and, as the earth receives the rain from the physical heavens, whenever there is a New Heaven of Revelation there is a New Earth of Understanding the meaning of the Words of God which rain down upon the hearts of men.

. I don’t think one can compare the Writings of Baha’u’llah with Mormon literature. The Adventist Movement did begin with the strong belief that the Lord would return in 1844, or thereabouts. The trouble is, people were looking up into the sky, the physical heavens, and it did not happen that way. It happened in “Elam”, where Daniel had his great vision foretelling both the coming of Christ and His crucifixion, and the Bab and Baha’u’llah. Also, Jeremiah said that “The Lord shall set “His” throne in Elam.” Elam is SW Persia, now called Iran.

Yes, we agree that no one would know but God Himself, for Jesus said:

"Mark 13:32 “But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”

Can’t argue with that…

Well on the last day is when Jesus comes again in his glory. Now some will have reached heaven. Meaning the soul have risen and are with God in heaven.

But on the LAST day which is when the world ends the soul will be RE-UNITED with the physical body.

See death of the soul means sin. If you are in a state of sin you are considered dead in that sin. You choose sin over God.

Now when God says ear has not heard, eyes has not seen what God has ready for those who love him. That is the beauty and peace of heaven we could not even imagine. They say heaven is SO beautiful that you have no idea what beauty truly is until you see heaven. And the music is supposed to be UN-Real. So no the not heard and not seen means heaven that we can not even imagime until we get there.

Now I am not sure the scripture you are speaking of but I think that is when the people refused to accept the words of Christ. Its not that they truly don’t hear him, they hear him alright but don’t want to.

Its like when you were a kid and your Mom said no,YOU don’t want to hear no. You don’t want to accept it.

Or when someone is told a horrible truth. Maybe a spouse is truly cheating, you choose to deny truth. That is the scripture I think you are speaking of when Jesus said you have ears but do not hear, eyes but do not see. I don’t think its Can’t its won’t;

Like the Jews indeed had the true word of God. But they choose to use it to their benefit not Gods.THat is why Jesus threw a fit. They were taking from the poor for their own wealth and using Gods word.

As I think we can both agree its harder to have the true word of God and accept it and live it, then not to be able to find it.

My dad always said pray for one thing GRACE. IT is the Grace of God that will lead you. Ask him to show you, teach you. When you truly pray for his grace, you will find it. Ask and you will receive.

People pray for the wrong things sometimes, and forget God sometimes say no. And like a kid when you could not see your parents No it was for your own good. God will not give you something so you can destroy yourself.

That the works of the devil. He does have power people seem to deny. God gave it to him. Remember how God said to him you can have anything from Job but his free will.

 

[rinnie]

No, it doesn’t go against the entire teaching of God, any more than Jesus did. He explained things in a non-traditional way to the Jews, who held to their traditional understanding, for their hearts were hardened, and Jesus explanations could not penetrate those whose hearts had been hardened.

No offense but it does if you go by the word of God. Jesus was God made Man who came here for one reason. To free us from sin.

Now if someone denies that sin exists you have to admit Jesus died in vain.

Here is the scripture Romans for the ages of sin death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ.

If we never sinned we would never have a physical death. Jesus saved us from death of the soul by the cross which we discussed.

THe harden hearts I can think of is when the Jews wanted divorce. So they talked Moses to grant them one. But Jesus said no. They did not want to accept Gods word.

That is more less what Jesus was saying you didn’t want to hear it then and don’t now. But I tell you whoever divorces his wife commits adultery.

But more or less Jesus said you pushed Moses into it. but now I tell you no. You won’t push me its a sin. Just my words kinda winding it up quicker.

 

[rinnie]

Good night my love hope to talk to you tommorow.

Have a wonderful peaceful night.

 

[SteveVH]

Steve,
. As to Christian theologians, other than those who have become Baha’is, and there are many, this is like asking a Jewish theologian about the Messiah coming in conformity with Christian interpretation. Would they agree? If they did, they would probably have become Christian somewhere along the way. For those Christian theologians who really study the Baha’i Faith, the hundreds of prophecies fulfilled by the coming of the Bab and Baha’u’llah, which are very specific as to time and place, they tend to become Baha’is.

. Just to know your thoughts on what was posted on 892 and 894, which were in response to your questions, can you comment?

.

Did you read my Post #895? Did you want me to respond to each quote you cited? I have responded in a general sense. It would be much easier to have a discussion if the posts were cut down to a point at a time. Long winded posts make it difficult to adequately respond. Is there a particular point you made that I have overlooked? If so, I will be happy to respond.

 

[SteveVH]

Just some food for thought, as we discuss the second coming of Christ, which the Baha’i faith believes has already happened in Baha’u’llah.

First of all, isn’t Baha’u’llah dead? Cannot we visit his grave? Do you think that Christ died, rose from the dead, ascended into heaven and then came back to die again, with no resurrection this time? Is that how the King of Glory is to reign on earth? From the grave?

I am interested in what you think about these words from the Catechism of the Catholic Church concerning what will happen before the end of this age:

**"Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.

The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgement after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world."** (CCC par 675-677) (emphasis mine)

The Baha’i faith believes that the new heaven and new earth means that the messianic hope will be realized in our history under better government services and world courts and organizations like (God save us all) the United Nations. This describes pretty closely what the Church is talking about. Baha’u’llah was a man, born of human parents, who is now dead in the ground. He has glorified himself in place of the one, true Messiah.

I am not saying that Baha’u’llah is the anti-Christ; if he is then he was not very effective, but his life and his teachings fit the pattern and lead people away from their true Lord and Savior.

 

[PRmerger]

Huh? First you say you agree with the Baha’i understanding that Genesis is symbolic, then you say we don’t understand that it is symbolic? We are in agreement here. It is symbolic.

Yes.

But not ONLY symbolic.

That is where so many errors occur in theology/life. One group always tries to create some sort of line in the sand (Faith ONLY! Science ONLY! Jesus is man ONLY! Jesus is divine ONLY! We speak English ONLY! The Eucharist is symbolic ONLY! Genesis is symbolic ONLY!)

There is no need to create some sort of dichotomy when one need not exist.