Baha'i V

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What about just plain online misinformation which occurs on anti-religion websites? I consider myself moderately informed on religions and some “information” should simply be off-limits because it is not information at all. I’m thinking about an anti-Islam website that seemed to be making up Ahadeeth and accusing Mohammed of things that never actually happened. Stick to legitimate sources. Find a resonable critique of Islam or read something non-Islamic that disagree with Islam but doesn’t directly attack it. Another thing is tre availability and accessibility of information. How easy will it be to find a refutation of misinformation? Sometimes it’s difficult and you won’t know it is wrong. Hate websites directed at anyone shut down conversation and encourage hatred. We all have biases and we may subconsciously lean to one side. Keep in mind I do stay off anti-catholic websites because I don’t want to hate the Catholics and I hope nobody is seeking to hate me.
How does one determine what is and is not a legitimate source? I certainly agree that sites that encourage hatred and suspicion are not useful in a dialogue, but surely not all sites that are critical of a religion are filled with lies and hatred?
 
how is a person to know whether the information on a web site is untrue without reading it?
 
I’m in complete agreement 👍 The “pitch” of the salesperson would fall under what I’m meaning too. That would be a “review” unduly favourable to the religion which is the other side of the coin. The best thing is to look at objective literature that tries to keep away from “taking a side” so to speak.

Obviously one should consider anti and pro literature/websites. I’m only suggesting that one should not base one’s understanding of a religion on either of these, since an element of propaganda and half-truth is present in both.

What you say though is very true. Catholics certainly don’t fear criticism or anti-Catholic websites. We simply consider what is said in them and rebut the arguments with what we know to be the case after some deep reflection.
you are very eloquent in your writing voulton,and understanding i could not put my point over so nicely as yourself,but within your post you say this…
Obviously one should consider anti and pro literature/websites. I’m only suggesting that one should not base one’s understanding of a religion on either of these, since an element of propaganda and half-truth is present in both.
and that is my point… the bahais contradict every thing the Catholic faith holds…

the websites that have been supposedly put up have shown this by the author who has exposed them for what it is…this is not finger pointing at a single person,but at the faith they have chosen to follow.is half truths and propaganda…
 
let me get this straight…

you are saying people have had a bad turn in being a bahai for what ever reason,and you dont want people on here to post them for others to see? is it because they expose some thing that is terribly wrong within the bahai religion? i dont know you tell me…

then these same people come on to a Catholic forum and contradict the Gospels,the crucifixion,the resurrection i could go on and on,every thing really…and star to moan and shout out people are dissecting you?

ive heard it all now… please.this is what happens,other threads are getting hijacked and spun and woven into the same thread…

ah well,ill leave it up the the mods to sort this one out…
No, I simply wish people would not just accept hate websites. I don’t get what about this remains difficult to understand. I was talking about a few users posting literally websites making accusations against the Bahais for example accusing Baha’is of being evil, seeking word domination, alcoholism, homophobic, secretly Muslims, persecuting other people, liars, and hateful. There was a website I suspect you did not see and all this and more was contained in it.
 
No, I simply wish people would not just accept hate websites. I don’t get what about this remains difficult to understand. I was talking about a few users posting literally websites making accusations against the Bahais for example accusing Baha’is of being evil, seeking word domination, alcoholism, homophobic, secretly Muslims, persecuting other people, liars, and hateful. There was a website I suspect you did not see and all this and more was contained in it.
could you put it in the post and show us/me it please…
 
How does one determine what is and is not a legitimate source? I certainly agree that sites that encourage hatred and suspicion are not useful in a dialogue, but surely not all sites that are critical of a religion are filled with lies and hatred?
Look at who created and runs the website. Look at the content on the website. We cannot still be so accepting as to think every person who criticizes something does not lie, is entirely truthful, and objective. That’s simply not the case. Take everything with a grain of salt.
 
Look at who created and runs the website. Look at the content on the website. We cannot still be so accepting as to think every person who criticizes something does not lie, is entirely truthful, and objective. That’s simply not the case. Take everything with a grain of salt.
I haven’t seen the website in question. Could you provide me with a link?
 
still, the bahai post on the internet that what the RCC teaches about the resurrection of Jesus Christ is not true.

also, they post that what the RCC teaches about the teachings of Jesus Christ are not true.

are the bahai posting vicious lies about the RC faith?
 
I would prefer not to.
Then could you perhaps refer us to the post number in which the website was linked?

There is surely nothing to fear from viewing it. If it is biased, unfair and unduly deprecatory of the Baha’i Faith then it should speak for itself.
 
I’m in complete agreement 👍 The “pitch” of the salesperson would fall under what I’m meaning too. That would be a “review” unduly favourable to the religion which is the other side of the coin. The best thing is to look at objective literature that tries to keep away from “taking a side” so to speak.

Obviously one should consider anti and pro literature/websites. I’m only suggesting that one should not base one’s understanding of a religion on either of these, since an element of propaganda and half-truth is present in both.

What you say though is very true. Catholics certainly don’t fear criticism or anti-Catholic websites. We simply consider what is said in them and rebut the arguments with what we know to be the case after some deep reflection.
Vouthon, and others concerned with this topic,

. If one wants to form an opinion as to the palatability of a certain source of grapes, and while on the way to the vineyard, various characters crop up along the way, handing out this and that grape for you to sample, “claiming” it be from the vineyard, it would certainly be most admirable to pass by these characters who pop up and proceed directly to the vineyard, for it is there that one will find the true sample.

. Even as the RCC in its earliest years set aside certain letters and traditions, some adulterated or unsubstantiated, so too there has been an authentication process invested in the Administrative Order of Baha’u’llah under the supreme auspices of the Universal House of Justice.

. That the occasional ego-maniac appears with a distortion here or there for self-serving motives is due to the human condition, and is part of the landscape, of which the wise are generally wary. One enters a hospital for the purpose of being healed, trusting that it be free of contagion due to the integrity, care, and professionalism of the well-credentialed doctors and their staff.

. Should the negligent blindly court contagion among the back-alley drug users, sharing their dirty needles, and later complain of his illness, then wonder why the healthy ones shun his vile companionship due to the foulness of the acquired offensive disease, so be it to him to taste of the wine of sin and lay intoxicated in the gutter of his adulterated and degenerate understanding.

. "Think not that We have revealed unto you a mere code of laws. Nay, rather, We have unsealed the choice Wine with the fingers of might and power. To this beareth witness that which the Pen of Revelation hath revealed. Meditate upon this, O men of insight!…

. Whenever My laws appear like the sun in the heaven of Mine utterance, they must be faithfully obeyed by all, though My decree be such as to cause the heaven of every religion to be cleft asunder. He doth what He pleaseth. He chooseth; and none may question His choice. Whatsoever He, the Well-Beloved, ordaineth, the same is, verily, beloved. To this He Who is the Lord of all creation beareth Me witness. Whoso hath inhaled the sweet fragrance of the All-Merciful, and recognized the Source of this utterance, will welcome with his own eyes the shafts of the enemy, that he may establish the truth of the laws of God amongst men. Well is it with him that hath turned thereunto, and apprehended the meaning of His decisive decree."

from the Most Holy Book written by Baha’u’llah
 
how is one to faithfully interpret the writings of bahaullah since tens of thousands of them are unavailable to english reading people?

there could be teachings in those untranslated writings that make current bahai interpretations completely erroneous.

for that matter, how many scholars are there in the bahai world that have read all that bahaullah had written?

if there is even ten, are we to suppose that these ten are faithfully understanding bahaullah’s writings?

it seems that the bahai place their faith in writings that they have never read, much less understand.
 
(…) That the occasional ego-maniac appears with a distortion here or there for self-serving motives is due to the human condition, and is part of the landscape, of which the wise are generally wary. One enters a hospital for the purpose of being healed, trusting that it be free of contagion due to the integrity, care, and professionalism of the well-credentialed doctors and their staff. (…)
You have not shown that all people who criticize your faith are ego-maniacs who distort the truth for self-serving motives. EDIT: proving that would be rather difficult, since it is a universal negative. Could there be anyone, in your opinion, who have left your religion for reasons that seemed reasonable to them, and who are not hate filled liars and ego-maniacs?

Hospitals are based on the science of medicine. We have laws against quackery that protect us from those who falsely claim to be doctors and healers. We have no such protection against religious truth claims, and so we must to the research ourselves before we decide to join a religion. Just like we look at both criticism and recommendations when we decide to buy a new car, mobile phone, computer or anything else…
 
it seems that the bahai place their faith in writings that they have never read, much less understand.
Quite the contrary, Eddie,
. That which we put our trust in is that which we have. A cow does not graze on tomorrow’s grass. That you are eating from a field which has long since dried up should in fact cause your hunger to be so strong that you should find yourself running through fences to get to the fresh new grass which God has bountifully provided.

. I grew up on a farm, my friend. Those old haystacks filled with dried, brown bales do not fatten cattle. They are kept only in reserve for the worst of droughts. What you want is fresh alfalfa, but in due proportion.

. One time a herd of cattle unaccustomed to an abundance of fresh alfalfa broke through the fence, fattened themselves on more than they could digest, became so bloated that their very death was possible from the experience of so much nutrition.

. My old man, born on the prairie homestead in 1905 knew well what could happen, watched over them carefully, ready at one point to plunge a knife into the bloated belly of a calf to release the gas. We watched. We waited. The calves survived, and the knife was not used.

. Bloated egos are sometimes the effect of spiritual adolescence when feeding upon the fields of one’s own vain imaginings. Mistaking pride for knowledge, taking Lucifer for his lord, and suffering the consequences of disobedience is an ancient tale, full of wisdom to the wise and a warning to others.

. Fresh fields of alfalfa have a certain tempting smell, almost intoxicating when a field is fresh cut. Cattle are drawn to it as moths to a lamp. How many wings are burnt in the fire of heedlessness. The Cherubim protects the inner sanctuary, my friend.
 
reportedly, bahaullah wrote hundreds of thousands of pages.

knowing this, who would not question that essential elements of bahaullah’s teachings have not been perused by any bahai?

is there any information available as to who and how many have read and understood those hundreds of thousands of pages?

perhaps there is nothing of significance in the pages not read?

or, perhaps there is great significance in the pages not read and that significance remains hidden from mankind?
 
You have not shown that all people who criticize your faith are ego-maniacs who distort the truth for self-serving motives. EDIT: proving that would be rather difficult, since it is a universal negative. Could there be anyone, in your opinion, who have left your religion for reasons that seemed reasonable to them, and who are not hate filled liars and ego-maniacs?

Hospitals are based on the science of medicine. We have laws against quackery that protect us from those who falsely claim to be doctors and healers. We have no such protection against religious truth claims, and so we must to the research ourselves before we decide to join a religion. Just like we look at both criticism and recommendations when we decide to buy a new car, mobile phone, computer or anything else…
Veeder,
. When people are sincerely searching for the truth, they may indeed encounter a few souls, as an example, who are not fully developed pr spiritually mature, and the sincere seeker may in this instance form a negative impression of the Faith, in this hypothetical example, perhaps due to some hypocrisy encountered. Another scenario is that of the seeker himself, as to whether, having stumbled upon the truth, he rises against it, as did Judas, opposing his Lord, and rebelling against Him. That a few of us may warn others against the Judas of this day is all that is intended.

. Fortunately we have long established institutions of medicine which certify doctors and protect us from quacks. Still, from time to time, we read of incompetent doctors exploiting patient’s trust, but there are measures in place to protect us even from those, when once they are discovered and exposed for what they are. We then return to Harvard for treatment, if the cancer has not been too prolonged.

. You are absolutely correct that we should thoroughly research a religion before aligning ourselves with it. In fact, to do otherwise would expose our own insincerity, undue reliance upon others, and spiritual weakness. This is a fundamental tenant of the Baha’i Faith, expressed in the words, “Independent Investigation of Truth”.

. I cannot rely upon you, nor you upon me, nor either of us upon anyone else, whether an authority figure, parent, or priest. We can, in the stage of search, ponder the writings of anyone, but in the recognition that the words of men are merely the words of men, whereas the Words of God appear heaven sent: “No man spake like this.”

. Indeed, were not the Words of God able to stand by themselves, what power and authority would they hold over us? What effect would they have upon the world if they were merely pretentious sophistry of intellectuals? It is only through one’s reading of the words of any Prophet that one comes to a valid conclusion as to whether or not such words are from God.

. "Immerse yourselves in the ocean of My words, that ye may unravel its secrets, and discover all the pearls of wisdom that lie hid in its depths. Take heed that ye do not vacillate in your determination to embrace the truth of this Cause—a Cause through which the potentialities of the might of God have been revealed, and His sovereignty established. With faces beaming with joy, hasten ye unto Him. This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.

. Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth. Say: Through it the poor have been enriched, the learned enlightened, and the seekers enabled to ascend unto the presence of God. Beware, lest ye make it a cause of dissension amongst you. Be ye as firmly settled as the immovable mountain in the Cause of your Lord, the Mighty, the Loving."

. Baha’u’llah

.
 
A cow does not graze on tomorrow’s grass. That you are eating from a field which has long since dried up should in fact cause your hunger to be so strong that you should find yourself running through fences to get to the fresh new grass which God has bountifully provided.
I have refrained form posting on this thread for quite some time now, but I cannot let you get away with such an offensive statement. You do realize that what you are saying is that those of us who place our trust in Jesus Christ are eating from a field which has long since dried up. You are speaking of our God and Savior, daler, not to mention that you are on a Catholic forum. I am convinced that you are here for no other reason than to proselytize and tear down Christianity. Your message is clearly; “leave the dried up fields of Christianity and come to the fresh new grass found in Baha’u’llah”. If you are going to post here then at least be respectful.
 
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