Balance in Sexual Morality (avoiding ridiculous extremes)

[TLM08]

I am coming to the conclusion that living in total compliance with church teaching in the area of sexual morality is something that I will never achieve in this lifetime.

My fear is that there are many people here that torture themselves daily with guilt and fear due to their perceived failings in this area at even the slightest “impure” thought. It’s hard to understand why God would give us this extremely powerful drive inside of ourselves then expect us to deny it at all times unless your goal is to create a child. Equally rediculous is the common attitude often heard that says that whenever a man sees an attractive woman clothed or unclothed and has even the slightest sexual thought that he is somehow “guilty” of something.

On the other hand, when I see the depths of deparvity and destroyed lives that can result when the sexual capacity is misused, such as the evils of hard core pornography, abortion and rape it’s also obvious to me that God never intended for human sexuality to be allowed to run amok. There are real and incredibly horiffic consequences when sexuality is allowed to get out of control.

Somewhere between Hugh Heffner and the teachings of Holy Mother Church balance and sanity can be found. Too many good people are feeling worthless because they cannot live up to these nearly impossible standards. Many of them wind up going off the deep end into complete depravity or total despair.

Single people, widowed, and even the social misfit need some form of an outlet for their sexuality, but they must deny it completely in order to aviod hell… If this isn’t crazymaking, I don’t know what is.

 

[Paul1961]

TLM,

Thank you. Well said.

 

[1ke]

Somewhere between Hugh Heffner and the teachings of Holy Mother Church balance and sanity can be found.

Only within Holy Mother Church can balance and sanity be found.

Too many good people are feeling worthless because they cannot live up to these nearly impossible standards. Many of them wind up going off the deep end into complete depravity or total despair.

They are not “nearly impossible” standards. Holiness is what we are all to strive for. We are called to the Kingdom, not to sin. Original Sin has ruptured our nature, and this is very evident in the realm of sexuality-- what we see around us is not God’s plan for sexuality. If we strive to live authentically as God has designed sexuality, there we find peace and holiness.

Single people, widowed, and even the social misfit need some form of an outlet for their sexuality

This is untrue. This is Original Sin talking.

 

[Paladin_V]

Only within Holy Mother Church can balance and sanity be found.

I completely agree with you here. To be sane is to perceive reality as it actually is; therefore to know, love, and follow God as He truly is (and not as we think He is) is sanity. Only within Holy Mother Church can we know, love and follow God as He truly is.

Not that anyone within Holy Mother Church can claim to know, love and follow God as He truly is until they reach heaven. We know, however, that the Church is more than the sum of the people within. It is the living body of Christ, live-giving and sustaining, the instrument through which the triune God brings about our perfect holiness and hence our perfect sanity. Therefore we can say that only within Holy Mother Church is our one and only hope of holiness, sanity, peace, and salvation.

Too many good people are feeling worthless because they cannot live up to these nearly impossible standards. Many of them wind up going off the deep end into complete depravity or total despair.

Perfect holiness is asked of us, indeed it is a requirement for entry into heaven, however it would not be asked of us if it were impossible. We have the means… consider that we have the very body of Christ available every day and that we can go to Christ himself through the priest to confess our sins to him. We have holy matrimony in which sexual desire can be expressed as it ought to be… towards one person only in total commitment, expressing the love of the triune God.

I have my share of persistent sins and sometimes it seems impossible that I will overcome them. Christ tells us not to despair (although at times I have). It always helps me to remember this passage from 2 Peter:

Consider that our Lord’s patience is directed toward salvation.

 

[mystified]

And another sad factor in our society is the perception that anyone who does control his/her sexual drive vis a vis the opposite sex in “obviously gay”.

 

[tampagrl]

I don’t think I’ve ever replied to a post on here, but I just feel so compelled to respond to this topic. Maybe b/c to me, it speaks to more than just sexual morality. You touch on our everyday stuggles, really; the balance between living a faithful life and the pulls of our sinful world. But I believe that a significant portion of those stuggles begin with sexual immorality.

It almost sounds like you have a sense of hopelessness right from the start when you say that you don’t think you can ever be totally compliant in this area. I can relate to that feeling. Not necessarily with this particular issue, but with a lot of other things. But then I think, what would’ve happened if the Saints before us or those who may be among us now, just shrugged their shoulders and said, “I just can’t do it anymore, Lord! I’m never gonna be ‘this’ person you want me to be”?
Isn’t that a little selfish to say? I mean, it’s real convienent for us to be able to say, “yeah, okay, I give” and then fall into the welcome arms of the world.

Oh, how the devil must rejoice when he hears that! But it’s at that point when *I *get mad. I refuse to let the devil bring me to those places where I know nothing good awaits me.
To me, sexual immorality goes FAR deeper than picking up a sleezy magazine or engaging in a sexual act outside of marriage. It is the proverbial snowball. It’s waiting, and perhaps more importantly, it has the power to change every aspect of our lives.

As a woman, I know that God didn’t make me to be used. He didn’t make me to let me use myself. Yes, God created me with sexuality, as He created all of us with that, but is that what drives us? Is that all we are? Just drones looking to pro-create or act out in a sexual way? If we feel “tortured” or “guilty” like you say, then I suggest we are simply giving in to how the world is telling us we ought to behave.

When I step out of that way of thinking, I can easily recognize that I am SO much more than my sexuality.
I don’t think God expects us to, “deny it at all times, unless we’re creating a child,” like you suggest; hence, Natural Family Planning, completely supported by the Church for married couples.

As we get ready to host the Super Bowl here in Tampa, you wouldn’t believe the amount of women who are coming here for the sole purpose of allowing themselves to be used in order to make “some serious money”. The scary thing is that there was a time in my life where I would’ve thought, “hey, whatever, good for them!” Now, it makes my stomach turn. Some of these women say, “it’s just my body, it’s not like I really care”. But they fail to see how “just” letting our bodies be used, or by us deliberatly using our bodies in this way, will change who we are as people, and it’s a slap in the face of God for allowing His creation to just be torn down like that. Just like we are more than our sexuality, we are more than just our bodies.

I think maybe the key here is in understanding that the sin lies in the action, not the temptation. Because we were created with free will, we DO have the power to resist the things that tempt us. When we fall, God has given us the Sacrament of Confession, so that we can pick ourselves up, and get back into a state of Grace.

The world is not right, my friend, the Church is. If that’s “ridiculously extreme”, then so be it. It’s just semantics.
The Church was given to us by Christ Himself and He would never mislead us. It’s not some sick tease to create us with sexuality and then institute a bunch of rules to keep us from experiencing it. That’s what the world would LOVE for you to believe. When we feel like that, we’re misunderstanding God’s purpose for us. Those that “wind up going off the deep end into complete depravity or total despair” have been captured by the world, and they need other Christians to help rescue them. We need each other. The devil is alive and well in the world and he uses our sexuality to tear us down, to destroy the family, to twist everything around so that somehow instead of seeing our sexuality as the gift it was meant to be, we start to see it as burden.

We are called to holiness in whatever our vocation, and I think we really can achieve it.

 

[Ender]

I am coming to the conclusion that living in total compliance with church teaching in the area of sexual morality is something that I will never achieve in this lifetime.

I’m sure this is true. I’ll note also that it is true in most other areas as well; our failures are not limited to sexuality although I’ll agree that sexual temptations can be mighty hard to control.

Some time ago I read a book by Jeremiah Denton, one of the long term residents of the Hanoi Hilton. In it he recounted what he and the other prisoners learned about living with themselves when they broke under torture and gave up information they were trying to withhold from the enemy. So long as they resisted to their utmost each time, they were not broken as men. Sometimes they succeeded and sometimes they failed but being broken once was not the end. They went into each interrogation with the determination to endure as much as they could. That is, it was not the succeeding that was key, it was the will to continue to try. I think the same is true in your situation.

Ender

 

[distracted]

ISingle people, widowed, and even the social misfit need some form of an outlet for their sexuality, but they must deny it completely in order to aviod hell… If this isn’t crazymaking, I don’t know what is.

I’ve been single for many years… and i have felt waht you write here… believed it on some level…

Celibate people DO have an outlet for their sexuality if they know how to channel it… by thinking of other things, getting involved with activities… or what you …

Sometimes my body wants “it” even when i am not even thinking about related things… but i’ve learned just to ignore the body’s desires… think about other things… The consequences of giving in are horrendous… Self-grattifcation is a mortal sin with dire consequences… I’m not going to mess up my intimacy with Christ for a moment’s worth of pleasure…

Yes, God gave us these desires… but it is a simple fact of life that giving in to them in a disordered, sinful way is NOT going to do us any good… There are a lot of uncomfortable facts of life we just have to accept… No choice… I don’t like the fact that we have you know who for Pres… but i am powerless over that & many, many other things…

It seems that Americans just don’t get it, generally speaking, that there are some things they cannot change, that they just have to accept…

I am an American, so i speak of myself as well…

but i just hadto conclude that… life involves hard choices… (etc)…

 

[distracted]

And another sad factor in our society is the perception that anyone who does control his/her sexual drive vis a vis the opposite sex in “obviously gay”.

or worse: repressed…

translated: crazy… stupid…

 

[distracted]

I’m sure this is true. I’ll note also that it is true in most other areas as well; our failures are not limited to sexuality although I’ll agree that sexual temptations can be mighty hard to control.

Some time ago I read a book by Jeremiah Denton, one of the long term residents of the Hanoi Hilton. In it he recounted what he and the other prisoners learned about living with themselves when they broke under torture and gave up information they were trying to withhold from the enemy. So long as they resisted to their utmost each time, they were not broken as men. Sometimes they succeeded and sometimes they failed but being broken once was not the end. They went into each interrogation with the determination to endure as much as they could. That is, it was not the succeeding that was key, it was the will to continue to try. I think the same is true in your situation.

Ender

i totally appreicat what you say in the second paragraph… but i am here to say that the 1st part is not necessarily true. I am not going to say it is easy to live up to the Church’s teachings… It definitely is NOT and failure can be expected… but i have overcome this particular temptation & feel that i will not be “downed” by it again… because i know just how WRONG it is to give in to disordered sexual desires… Well, scratch that… desires are not disordered… the fulfillment of them can be…

Sex is only for holy matrimony…

That is the truth… and nothing can change the Truth…

 

[distracted]

Ial despair.

Single people, widowed, and even the social misfit need some form of an outlet for their sexuality, but they must deny it completely in order to aviod hell… If this isn’t crazymaking, I don’t know what is.

at least one saint has said that the sin(s) that gets people to Hell the most often is sexual sin…

 

[EvelynEVF]

TLM08, have you read the Theology of the Body or heard any of the talks (free online)?

TotB takes all this messy stuff and sets it into the context of divine love, which requires a really big paradigm shift.

I am coming from a place of grave injury in this realm, and TotB has been deeply healing to me. All the difficulties I endured, while devastating, were misuse of the shadow of what sexuality really is. Now that I am more aware of the Real deal, and how God loves through these means, everything is different.

I have a feeling you would find it very encouraging, at least.

 

[wjp984]

My guess is either in this lifetime or the next, (if we are fortunate to make it to Puragtory,) we will all eventually learn to control our desires.

Whatever suffering there is in our life to attempt to achieve this surely helps us achieve Heaven. Whatever failures we have will be forgiven by God and we have the sacrament of Reconciliation as well as the Eucharist. I don’t know if I’ll ever be free of certain sins but I do know that whatever I am unable to do here will be achieved in Purgatory though ways I could not possibly understand and that is comforting.

The only thing I do know is that an attitude of despair which seems to be the topic of this thread is the only sure way of disaster and the important thing is to just keep trying and God, who understands us all, will take care of the rest.

 

[Et_Cetera]

The original poster made sense. Too many people on this site are driving themselves insane. You need to find a balance. Using other people for sex is wrong and hurtful, but you shouldn’t have to run the risk of an unwanted kid every time you have sex with someone.

 

[Newbie2]

The original poster made sense. Too many people on this site are driving themselves insane. You need to find a balance. Using other people for sex is wrong and hurtful, but you shouldn’t have to run the risk of an unwanted kid every time you have sex with someone.

“Have sex with someone”?

May I suggest that if anyone does not want to run that risk, that they not get married or maintain strict celebacy.

Using your logic here, EC, aren’t there people who “need to find a balance” in other areas of morality as well?

How about gluttony? People should be able to eat without having to run the risk of obesity amd the risk to their health and maybe by extensin their family’s welfare. Why, it just isn’t fair that some people cannot control their own eating!

Or stealing. Taking other people’s stuff is wrong, but you shouldn’t have to take the risk of getting caught every time you take something that, say, belongs to the company that you work for.

Or Pedophilia. Molesting children is wrong (only if they object). Pedophiles need to find a balance, perhaps only molesting kids that they can cajole, bribe or frighten into compliance. One shouldn’t have to risk getting incarcerated every time they have sex with a child.

Christ’s command is “Be Holy”. Not “Be kinda Holy” or “Try to find a balance in the extremes of really Holy and Evil”.

Yes, following Christ is insane. Why follow some common sap who was crucified like the rest of the common criminals?

 

[goofyjim]

What about all those who experience their sexuality without ever giving into behavior? They are told by the liberals that they are jsut conforming and thereofre not being themselves. The fundamentalists are telling them by their very nature they won’t make it to heaven. Both sides are wrong. A celibate homosexual, if he remains so, can celebrate his sexuality just like anyone can. He doesn’t have to feel shame or remorse for sin until he acts on it in a relationship. I would think today we could get over this hurdle.

 

[EvelynEVF]

One would think so, especially since there isn’t that much difference between those of us who are heterosexual but not allowed to do anything about it, and those who are homosexual and also required to be abstinent. Yeah, one is disordered, but how abstinence plays out in real life isn’t all that different.

 

[eichenb2]

TLM08, have you read the Theology of the Body or heard any of the talks (free online)?

TotB takes all this messy stuff and sets it into the context of divine love, which requires a really big paradigm shift.

I am coming from a place of grave injury in this realm, and TotB has been deeply healing to me. All the difficulties I endured, while devastating, were misuse of the shadow of what sexuality really is. Now that I am more aware of the Real deal, and how God loves through these means, everything is different.

I have a feeling you would find it very encouraging, at least.

Didn’t JPII say something about feeling lust for you wife being wrong in theology of the body. That sounds crazy to me. My physical desire for my wife is good and wholesome, in my opinion. The problem is in semantics. Making a semantic difference btwn lust and love, withing the context of marriage seems overly pietistic. Thankfully, I don’t thing he was speaking “ex cathedra”.

 

[eichenb2]

What about all those who experience their sexuality without ever giving into behavior? They are told by the liberals that they are jsut conforming and thereofre not being themselves. The fundamentalists are telling them by their very nature they won’t make it to heaven. Both sides are wrong. A celibate homosexual, if he remains so, can celebrate his sexuality just like anyone can. He doesn’t have to feel shame or remorse for sin until he acts on it in a relationship. I would think today we could get over this hurdle.

Physical attaction for the opposite sex is NATURAL, although it can be disordered if outsite the context of marriage.
Physical attraction for the Same sex is UNNATURAL and DISORDERED, intrinsically.
What do you mean, “celebrate your sexuality”?

 

[EvelynEVF]

When theology of the body condemns lust in marriage, it is not talking about desire. It is talking about wanting only the wife’s body, and the rest of her be darned. I think we would all agree with that! The point is just that desire can be twisted even within the marriage relationship. He doesn’t have any problem with knock-you-over raging desire. He even talks about the benefits of simultaneous orgasm. That’s the part I always think about when someone says something about celibate men making rules about sex. . .