Balancing career with Faith

[LilyM]

For some reason I keep thinking of St Thomas More. His job as a lawyer and politician required him to buddy buddy with all sorts of people, many of whom he really disagreed with, some of whom (including his boss Henry VIII) had moral compasses and characters that must have made it enormously difficult to begin to get along with them.

But he did it, for as long as he could. And did it with good grace and good humor - even cracking jokes on his way to his execution when he surely would’ve been forgiven for being glum - combined with a wisdom that made even his enemies respect him. He put on his best smile and his finest silk robes (although with a hairshirt underneath) time after time and attended all the pointless and frivolous parties at henry’s court - and Henry loved a party - when he surely would rather have been home with his God and his dearly beloved family.

I think the trick is to try truly to see Christ in everyone, as He is, even in the least of men. And remember that part of loving our enemies is to make little sacrifices for them, especially when we would rather not. There is a merit and grace to trying to love the unlovable that just cannot be found when we associate only with those who are easy to love.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I AM a female. I was simply responding to jmcrae because I think he is male

Ah. OK, never mind then.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

For the first time in my life I’m in a position to hire, fire, and promote. Honestly, the person who puts forth effort and excels at their job but doesn’t make an effort to connect with their coworkers or even occasionally show up for happy hour will be cut before the person who excels a little less but puts in the face time after work and makes an effort to bring the office together. I can teach someone sales and management techniques, send them to the IT department to get their computer skills up, and give them reading material to improve their understanding of the industry. I can’t teach them to be dedicated to the company or how to work well with their coworkers. I can’t teach them to motivate others or to even just have good people skills. I can’t teach them to properly and effectively communicate with others in the company.

The person who puts in the extra face time shows me that they are willing to do a bit extra and shows off those skills I listed above. That’s the person that will be promoted and that’s the person I will fight to keep in the company.

And I see nothing wrong with this. Why wouldn’t I want the person who goes above and beyond and plays well with others?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Extroverts have a hard time believing that introverts and/or very private people have a right to be that way, let alone, that they are just as valuable as the more outgoing and sociable. I would not want to be at a company that would force me to do happy hour as a condition of my employment. It’s one thing if employees themselves, or a team, decide to get together after work. IMO it is wrong for a supervisor to demand it or favor one type of person over another.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Extroverts have a hard time believing that introverts and/or very private people have a right to be that way, let alone, that they are just as valuable as the more outgoing and sociable. I would not want to be at a company that would force me to do happy hour as a condition of my employment. It’s one thing if employees themselves, or a team, decide to get together after work. IMO it is wrong for a supervisor to demand it or favor one type of person over another.

In my industry, extroverts are valued more, because that’s what we need. I work in real estate. If you can’t relate to others and be outgoing and personable then you are not going to do as well. If you can’t click with your coworkers and work as a team and be an effective leader, you won’t do well. Happy hour is not a condition of employment, but when its time for layoffs and promotions the personable, charismatic employee who fits in to the corporate culture and goes above and beyond by putting in extra time with his coworkers will have a definite advantage over the introvert who hasn’t put forth the effort and shown a vested interest in the company outside of his 9-5 day.

And here’s a secret: some of the best ideas are thought up over drinks and nachos at the bar. If you aren’t there when the rest of your team comes up with effective ideas, you won’t get credit.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Sure, that makes sense, you are in sales. People in sales need people skills.

As for good ideas at happy hour…if you say so. In my experience there are good ideas, and there are bar ideas. Sometimes there’s an overlap, but not as much as drinkers like to believe.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Sure, that makes sense, you are in sales. People in sales need people skills.

As for good ideas at happy hour…if you say so. In my experience there are good ideas, and there are bar ideas. Sometimes there’s an overlap, but not as much as drinkers like to believe.

Even outside of sales doesn’t it make sense that putting in the extra time and effort pays off? Why keep someone around when someone else is showing more interest and dedication?

The nice bonus that we received for our first quarter marketing plan proves that good things can happen at happy hour

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Even outside of sales doesn’t it make sense that putting in the extra time and effort pays off? Why keep someone around when someone else is showing more interest and dedication?

The nice bonus that we received for our first quarter marketing plan proves that good things can happen at happy hour

It all depends upon how you (and the company) evaluate interest and dedication. For you and your company, socializing shows interest and dedication. For other companies, producing results during the working day is primary. For other companies, maybe they want their employees on site 24/7/365, like many of the gaming software companies who hire primarily young unmarried males. It all depends on the corporate culture.

 

[cmscms]

And I see nothing wrong with this. Why wouldn’t I want the person who goes above and beyond and plays well with others?

Because different people have different ideas of what kind of play is fun. I have a weight problem so eating nachos is not play to me. And I like to read Christian books and I can not do that around co-workers.

Not to mention that as an introvert, I can only take some people in small doses. I am better off goingo home and getting a break from them than seeing them after work, having them get on my nerves on MY time and them being a crab apple around them the next day at work. Perhaps it doesn’t look good on the outside but trust me, it is the less of 2 evils.

Also, if I become friends with people at work, if ever there is a downsize, it becomes personal and I loose all my friends and have no support. Not to mention, I would HATE to go to work everyday thinking I have to be someone’s friend to hold my job. Some boundaries are not appropriate

CM

 

[AllSeasons]

That is my point. They are only doing it to increase profits, yet they want us to think it is because they care. I don’t like the hypocrisy

I agree in the sense that for some companies, they’re just paying lip service to CSR, the environment, etc. However, I think calling it “hypocrisy” is going a little too far when you’re talking about companies who for instance uses recycled materials or sources from responsible suppliers who don’t mistreat their workers. There’s nothing hypocritical for a company to market these positive things they’re doing.

Again, that is my point. I want to be able to enjoy life and not constantly look over my shoulder to see who heard what I said and worry it will affect my career

But you’re only seeing the negative parts. If you don’t engage in social activities, they won’t get a sense of who you are, and they are not going to promote someone they don’t know into a more important position. And the social activities can be fun, too. It’s also a chance for you to see what your coworkers are like outside of work. So it’s both ways. Having a good relationship with your coworkers outside of work can oftentimes make things easier at work. At big corporations, things get done through informal networks. And these informal networks are oftentimes formed through these outside-of-work activities. If you just keep to yourself, it will make your actual work much tougher.

 

[cmscms]

But you’re only seeing the negative parts. If you don’t engage in social activities, they won’t get a sense of who you are, and they are not going to promote someone they don’t know into a more important position. And the social activities can be fun, too. It’s also a chance for you to see what your coworkers are like outside of work. So it’s both ways. Having a good relationship with your coworkers outside of work can oftentimes make things easier at work. At big corporations, things get done through informal networks. And these informal networks are oftentimes formed through these outside-of-work activities. If you just keep to yourself, it will make your actual work much tougher.

Well, then I guess I will just have to accept that they won’t promote me because I like my privacy and genuinly don’t care to get to know a co-worker outside of work. I have been in too many offices with gossip and can afford to risk it.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I highly recommend the “Novena for Work” from St Josemaria Escriva. It is wonderful for both job seekers and those wanting to do better at the jobs we have.

Doing volunteer work when you are unemployed is a good practice, something that employeers see as positive and a good thing for you to do when you have more time. You should also consider it a good way to get used to working easily alongside lots of different kinds of people.

We don’t have to be chummy with everyone at work, but we should learn to work smoothly with all kinds of people. Find a way to graciously turn aside political talk. Certainly we are called to defend true Catholic positiions, but we don’t need to be belligerent or refuse to speak to people politely about innocuous topics because we disagree with their politics.

If you consider your work a “career” and hope to advance in your field, you’ll need to work out ways to get your job done successfully, and that almost always includes coorperation from the people you work with.

 

[ryecroft]

Can you find another ride???
God Bless
Rye

 

[cmscms]

We don’t have to be chummy with everyone at work, but we should learn to work smoothly with all kinds of people. .

I am all for working smoothly with people at work. However, I really don’t see the necessity in hanging out with these people outside of work. Unless I meet someone I really hit it off with, then I see it as a waste of both our times to pretend we enjoy each other’s company

I work to live. I do NOT live to work and I value my time where I can be myself. Sometimes I think it is jealousy on other people’s part that I have a life away from the office.

I am just so sick of society placing one’s value on their income. I don’t want to fall into that trap and that is the main reason I make sure career does not intrude on social time

CM

 

[AllSeasons]

Well, then I guess I will just have to accept that they won’t promote me because I like my privacy and genuinly don’t care to get to know a co-worker outside of work. I have been in too many offices with gossip and can afford to risk it.

I’m not saying that you won’t get promoted if you don’t socialize with your coworkers outside of work, but I will say that it will be a career-limiting factor. If you’re okay with that, then to each his/her own.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I am all for working smoothly with people at work. However, I really don’t see the necessity in hanging out with these people outside of work. Unless I meet someone I really hit it off with, then I see it as a waste of both our times to pretend we enjoy each other’s company

I work to live. I do NOT live to work and I value my time where I can be myself. Sometimes I think it is jealousy on other people’s part that I have a life away from the office.

I am just so sick of society placing one’s value on their income. I don’t want to fall into that trap and that is the main reason I make sure career does not intrude on social time

CM

I’m not advocating spending hours after work hanging with your fellow employees. I do think it is important in many situations to be able to exchange small-talk and learn to graciously change the subject when heated political or religious subjects come up.

There are plenty of threads on this forum about folks needing exactly those skills when getting together with extended family, parents of other kids on the little league team, etc. To me being able to chat comfortably with all different kinds of people is a life skill, not just something valuable for getting ahead at work.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am all for working smoothly with people at work. However, I really don’t see the necessity in hanging out with these people outside of work. Unless I meet someone I really hit it off with, then I see it as a waste of both our times to pretend we enjoy each other’s company

I work to live. I do NOT live to work and I value my time where I can be myself. Sometimes I think it is jealousy on other people’s part that I have a life away from the office.

I am just so sick of society placing one’s value on their income. I don’t want to fall into that trap and that is the main reason I make sure career does not intrude on social time

CM

I realize it’s no help to you right now, but if I owned or ran a business, I would make NO demands upon employees to socialize in any way on their own time. Nor would I reward people for doing so, even if they said they were working or “team-building” or whatever. In fact I would be inclined to look askance at that type of fraternizing. I believe that everything employees need to do, should be accomplished during the business day, not after hours, not on weekends. If you can’t get your work done during an average business day, then something is wrong, and socializing after work isn’t going to solve the problem.

I hate today’s work environment, it is more like slavery since most people are hooked into their offices 24/7/365 thanks to cell phones and computers.

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

I feel there are subtle pressures to fit into a click to remain employed. I was never into cliques and my concern is my honesty and insistence everybody be accountable for their behaviour is going to harm me career wise.

I made a big discovery about 2 year ago: If you work for an employer (private, government, non-profit) of any size (say, over 10 or 15 employees), then you are NOT really employed the employer, you are empl0yed by a CLIQUE within the employer.

The larger the employer, the bigger factor the whole CLIQUE thing is.

The main activity in most large employers is the endless CLIQUE WARS that go in within the organization. These wars are ruthless and full of treachery. There is nothing “Christian” ab0ut any of this.

This all is not some aberration. This is just human nature as it is in this world. This is that it always has been.

You CANNOT fight or resist CLIQUE-dom. If you try, you WILL harm your career.

If you don’t want to be a member of a CLIQUE, you must be self-employed, or be employed doing highly specialized, very important work in the organization that no one else does and no one else really understands (say, a computer networking technician, or something).

You are worried about preserving your integrity while at the same time NOT harming your career. Impossible! All organizations are made up of mainly of people with the ethics and morals of pirates. That is true of the top executives and the janitors. This is just life as it is. If you want to pure, you must join a convent, or you must accept that you will never really fit in at organizations out in the world (nonprofit, private, or government).

Sorry, but I think you are VERY NAIVE about how harsh and brutal this world of ours is in general.

That doesn’t mean that an ordinary devout Catholic cannot have nice, happy life down here on earth. It just means that one must have no illusions about how thing are in workplaces, and not seek or expect to find meaning, companionship, and fulfillment “at work.”

Or maybe I’m wrong! You decide! I’'m just trying to spare you more suffering.

Best wishes.