Baltimore priest removed for liturgical abuse

  • Thread starter Thread starter awalt
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
johnstown_johnn said:
I really do not think the matter of reading the Gospel is off topic since it is reported the Protestant Woman Minister did read the Gospel at that “Mass.”

It is very much a part of the “liturgical abuse” and undoubtedly one of the many reasons the Catholic priest was fired. I don’t think this is a “derailment” since the abuses are the focus.

Do you agree?
Click to expand...
Well, we both agree that a member of the Catholic clergy is required to read the Gospel, and that is one of the major issues in this case. I was suggesting a thread in L&S to find out which member of the Catholic clergy is the one designated as the ordinary person to read the Gospel, the deacon or the priest. To me, that part is off-topic here, as neither Catholic deacon nor Catholic priest can be replaced by clergy of another denomination.

Betsy
 
tiggeriffic said:
YES!!!

We are way too worried about the small stuff folks,
Click to expand...
Abuses of The Liturgy of The Mass, and Canon Law are NOT small stuff. Believing that they are therin lies the problem! and why so many Catholic souls are in great danger!

The Liturgy, Canon Law, Doctrine, Dogma cannot be melted down to make this a feel good world.
 
I’m glad to hear that this priest was removed for his violation in allowing an Episcopal “priest” to join in the Mass. However, can one really blame him for thinking this kind of behavior is acceptable? Take a look at some of John Paul II’s papal Masses! Mother Teresa’s beatification Mass featured Hindu rituals. Pope Paul VI gave the “archbishop” of Canterbury an episcopal ring, which symbolizes governing authority over the faithful! Talk about scandalous! John Paul II invited an episcopal “bishop” to “bless” the crowd at an event in Rome.

Anyway, the point is, it’s silly to pile on this priest for what he did-- the Vatican has given plenty of scandal to make it seem like this sort of thing is okay.
 
We moved from the Baltimore Archdiocese 9 years ago, but this kind of cafeteria Catholicism has been going on for a long time. The Church is very liberal and libertine there in a traditionally “Catholic” state. I’ve had people who direct parish ministries tell me that some rules do not apply because we are the American Catholic Church. It’s sad that Fr Martin could not be pastoral and obedient.
BTW pastoral to me means that the priest relates well to people and is the kind of priest you can trust to seek out for council, who will give sound advice and direction. I’ve seen lots of priests who are pastoral but not great teachers or preachers. They have been very faithful priests who took the sacraments and teaching of the Church seriously, but not the kind of teachers you would want to take a course from. It takes all kinds to make up God’s Church. Anne
 
Nohome said:
At least one story says a walk out occurred:

It does not say how many. Was anyone on this thread there?
Click to expand...
Not I, but I have been following a blog on InsideCatholic and several of the posters attend a church from which Fr. Martin was removed. Not surprisingly what you would have seen depended on which mass you attended. At one there was very little reaction but at a later mass there apparently was a major demonstration.

The archbishop had written a letter to be read after all the masses but it seems that not a lot of people stuck around after this one particular mass to hear it. I’m sure we’ll hear more about this situation.

Ender
 
This looks like a small window of what is in progress within the Church. We are seeing some Catholics siding with a maverick priest and one can’t help but see a division/separation of the flock.

Even some of the “elect” will fall into error. Not a good portent of things to come.

However, on the other hand, maybe this is a good thing inasmuch as it could be a form of “purging” and yet being done by the free will of “these” and “those.”

It comes down to CHOICE.
 
I knew Father Ray. I had a chance to meet him just two weeks ago. He was a very loving and kind gentleman. He spoke with my kids in such a loving and caring way. Despite that rules are rules and he broke them. Some of the other offences that were stated in the press were allowing his dogs into the sanctuary, and various administrative failings. The worst offence was hiring a man that was found to have a criminal background. He was told by the archdiocese to have him removed and a month after that meeting the man was still employed. If I was told by my boss to handle a situation and didn’t handle it then I would be let go. Before some one flames me about forgiveness to man that was hired, forgiveness is one thing but placing someone in a place of trouble is another. If a child molester accepted Christ there would be forgiveness but as a leader in my children’s ministry, no he would be barred from working in a place of trust.

I am new to the catholic faith yet but I have been taught by my parents and my uncle that one is to obey the rules.
 
Don’t allow deviate behavior by some priest(s) derail your advance into the Church. You have come into the Church at a very tumultuous time and your entrance at this time could be one of reason in that you are able to see through the facades of some who are supposedly doing “God’s work.”

I’ve known Catholic converts in my lifetime and many of them display more fortitude than many cradle Catholics.

You’ve been gifted it appears.
 
rebusrms said:
The worst offence was hiring a man that was found to have a criminal background. He was told by the archdiocese to have him removed and a month after that meeting the man was still employed.
Click to expand...
Dan Rodricks, the *Baltimore Sun *columnist, complained that the Church was not being forgiving to the employee. If that employee had harmed any parishioner, especially a child, I’m quite sure there would have been a major uproar about how the parish endangered the people by hiring this person.

Betsy
 
“Father Martin’s received advice and counsel on numerous occasions from the archdiocese, and he has repeatedly violated church teaching,” Caine said. His major offense was not complying with hiring and screening policies, but he also allowed dogs in the sanctuary and did not show up for a baptism, Caine said.

This is pretty petty. Hiring and screening policies are not during the Liturgy. I know many priests who have let animals run in the church and no harm has been done (usually accidentally got loose and then moved back). And not showing up for a Baptism is not an abuse but a scheduling conflict.

What a joke.
 
UKcatholicGuy said:
I’m glad to hear that this priest was removed for his violation in allowing an Episcopal “priest” to join in the Mass. However, can one really blame him for thinking this kind of behavior is acceptable? Take a look at some of John Paul II’s papal Masses! Mother Teresa’s beatification Mass featured Hindu rituals. Pope Paul VI gave the “archbishop” of Canterbury an episcopal ring, which symbolizes governing authority over the faithful! Talk about scandalous! John Paul II invited an episcopal “bishop” to “bless” the crowd at an event in Rome.

Anyway, the point is, it’s silly to pile on this priest for what he did-- the Vatican has given plenty of scandal to make it seem like this sort of thing is okay.
Click to expand...
Having another clergy member up there in a show of ecumenicism? Hardly an abuse. Having or not having the Episcopal Priest (man or woman) does not diminish or change the other parts of the mass. Transubstantiation will still happen, and will probably be enhanced by the spirit of the other holy person.
 
What we are seeing on this thread is an example the division between Catholic people judging by the divergent attitudes.

This could be a good thing because we will see the “whore” church as spoken in the Apocalypse and the “True Church” holding fast until He comes from the clouds.

Pray that you walk in the Ways of the Lord.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
*“Father Martin’s … has repeatedly violated church teaching,” Caine said. *

This is pretty petty.
What a joke.
Click to expand...
Ahhh new_ulm, watch out for superfluous words and bias in the reporting. I’ve known people ‘misquoted’ in the press, and it can be ugly.

Of course, you’re well disposed towards his type of “openness”, aren’t you? Your posting history shows your heterodoxy and it’s no surprise to find you on this thread.

Criticizing the Bishop for making sure his shepherds treat the flock as they should be treated is the only joke here.
 
Sheeniac said:
Ahhh new_ulm, watch out for superfluous words and bias in the reporting. I’ve known people ‘misquoted’ in the press, and it can be ugly.

Of course, you’re well disposed towards his type of “openness”, aren’t you? Your posting history shows your heterodoxy and it’s no surprise to find you on this thread.

Criticizing the Bishop for making sure his shepherds treat the flock as they should be treated is the only joke here.
Click to expand...
My precieved “heterodoxy” has nothing to do with this debate. Regardless of what the true story is, “liturgical abuse” is not the reason he was removed. It appears the hiring practices were an issue, but those are actions outside the liturgy.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
Having another clergy member up there in a show of ecumenicism? Hardly an abuse. Having or not having the Episcopal Priest (man or woman) does not diminish or change the other parts of the mass. Transubstantiation will still happen, and will probably be enhanced by the spirit of the other holy person.
Click to expand...
“Hardly an abuse”? The sacredness of the Holy Mass demands absolute adherence to the rubrics. They are not guidelines. Any deviation is abuse and an offense against God and His Church. The proclamation of the Gospel is not a joke and it is reserved to an ordained minister of the Holy Catholic Church alone.
 
francesco920 said:
“Hardly an abuse”? The sacredness of the Holy Mass demands absolute adherence to the rubrics. They are not guidelines. Any deviation is abuse and an offense against God and His Church. The proclamation of the Gospel is not a joke and it is reserved to an ordained minister of the Holy Catholic Church alone.
Click to expand...
Some see the Mass with flippancy.

Every part of the Mass has to be observed with discipline and reverence.

From all the data gathered here IMO, the bishop caved in by reistating this maverick.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top