Baptism compromise

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yessisan

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I wanted to see if some of you could help me decide wether or not this is a good idea.

DH is a JW who is refusing to raise our children Catholic despite of promising to raise them Catholic when we got our marriage “blessed” by the CC. We did agree they would get to know both faiths but he refuses to introduce Catholicism now.

He was raised in a JW/Catholic home. His dad was Catholic and made all the kids do their first communions and confirmations. They were all baptised when DH’s mom was Catholic. DH attended the JW meetings when his mom converted to JWism, but still went thru catechism for his first communion and confirmation. So his dad did what he was supposed to do as a Catholic parent.

Now that we’re faced with this topic (because we want to start having a family soon), DH says he doesn’t want to go thru w/it. My fear is to bring children to this world and not be able to baptize them and to give the to our Lord. DH fears that we bring children to the world and give them to the devil by baptising them in the CC.

So, I was thinking maybe I could bring up to him that it would be a good idea to do what his parents did with him. DH says the kids are going to go w/him to the JW meetings when they are of age of reason and can read and write and understand that religion. Well, as a Catholic, you enter the CC since you’re a baby, so do you think it’s a good approach? Ask him if we can baptize them and prepare them for first communion and confirmation and have them attend the JW meetings when they can read and write? I pray every day for DH’s conversion, so maybe by the time our future children are to go thru catechism, he could be back in the CC. Any ideas?

Just to let those who haven’t read my previous posts know, he was a JW when we married, he was Catholic till the age of 7-8. I’m a craddle Catholic. We were married by a JP but had a radical sanation to bless our marriage. We did talk about the upbringing of children before we married but I guess we didn’t speak of it enough, so now I’m faced w/this situation. And no, I don’t want to divorce him even though this could be grounds for an annullment.
 
Sounds like, in my opinion, you have three solid issues to work on:
  1. he thinks members of the catholic church are bound for hell. this does not bode well for how he thinks of his wife and (therefore) how he is likely to respect her opinions
  2. The dishonesty of the situation… in that he mislead his wife to believe something which he later changed.
  3. The hypocracy of the situation… HE wants to take the kids to JW churches as prescribed by HIS church law and according to HIS will for the children. It appears that he has lost all respect for the fact that his wife wants to take the chldren to her church following the manner prescribed by her church law and according to HER will for the children.
Pray for your husband, these issues will take MUCH work to resolve.
 
No, yessian, you cannot agree to that. You cannot compromise on the faith of your children. You must raise them as Catholics, not as Catholics who go to JW meetings.

Look where that has gotten your DH-- he was raised as a “Catholic” but his faith was undermined by going to JW meetings.

It’s not acceptable.

I don’t know what to tell you, other than postpone a family until you can agree on raising the children exclusively Catholic.
 
I was afraid I’d be told that… I’m just looking for a way to be able to start a family. I don’t want to deny my marriage of children. I love my DH, but I really, really want to have a family. I’ve gotten away w/Catholic things at home, maybe this could be another. I mean, he didn’t want to marry in the CC, yet, we already are. He didn’t want me to celbrate Christmas by decorating our house, yet at the end I got my way. He didn’t want to go to Retrouvaille, yet he did and is even entering a Catholic chapel every wk for the post-sessions.

I’m hopeful about the fact he’ll return to the CC, I know God works miracles (but who knows how long it will take for DH to return, *IF *he returns)… how can I deny children for this marriage? I am a Catholic. Catholics cannot deny bringing children to the world. We have to be open to having a family.

My post was just to see if he’d let me, I’ve gotten away w/so many Catholic things. He had told me I couldn’t put a cross/crucifix at home, yet I have two up, a picture of Jesus a scapular and a rosary hanging by 2 angels, and he didn’t agree w/me having a cross pendant, yet I have all those things.

I might be wanting a fantasy… :crying:
 
I was afraid I’d be told that… I’m just looking for a way to be able to start a family. I don’t want to deny my marriage of children. I love my DH, but I really, really want to have a family. I’ve gotten away w/Catholic things at home, maybe this could be another. I mean, he didn’t want to marry in the CC, yet, we already are. He didn’t want me to celbrate Christmas by decorating our house, yet at the end I got my way. He didn’t want to go to Retrouvaille, yet he did and is even entering a Catholic chapel every wk for the post-sessions.

I’m hopeful about the fact he’ll return to the CC, I know God works miracles (but who knows how long it will take for DH to return, *IF *he returns)… how can I deny children for this marriage? I am a Catholic. Catholics cannot deny bringing children to the world. We have to be open to having a family.

My post was just to see if he’d let me, I’ve gotten away w/so many Catholic things. He had told me I couldn’t put a cross/crucifix at home, yet I have two up, a picture of Jesus a scapular and a rosary hanging by 2 angels, and he didn’t agree w/me having a cross pendant, yet I have all those things.

I might be wanting a fantasy… :crying:
 
I would say that under the current circumstances, having children would create an inordinate amount of serious difficulties, both in the short and long terms.
 
yessisan said:
I wanted to see if some of you could help me decide wether or not this is a good idea.

DH is a JW who is refusing to raise our children Catholic despite of promising to raise them Catholic when we got our marriage “blessed” by the CC. We did agree they would get to know both faiths but he refuses to introduce Catholicism now.

He was raised in a JW/Catholic home. His dad was Catholic and made all the kids do their first communions and confirmations. They were all baptised when DH’s mom was Catholic. DH attended the JW meetings when his mom converted to JWism, but still went thru catechism for his first communion and confirmation. So his dad did what he was supposed to do as a Catholic parent.

Now that we’re faced with this topic (because we want to start having a family soon), DH says he doesn’t want to go thru w/it. My fear is to bring children to this world and not be able to baptize them and to give the to our Lord. DH fears that we bring children to the world and give them to the devil by baptising them in the CC.

So, I was thinking maybe I could bring up to him that it would be a good idea to do what his parents did with him. DH says the kids are going to go w/him to the JW meetings when they are of age of reason and can read and write and understand that religion. Well, as a Catholic, you enter the CC since you’re a baby, so do you think it’s a good approach? Ask him if we can baptize them and prepare them for first communion and confirmation and have them attend the JW meetings when they can read and write? I pray every day for DH’s conversion, so maybe by the time our future children are to go thru catechism, he could be back in the CC. Any ideas?

Just to let those who haven’t read my previous posts know, he was a JW when we married, he was Catholic till the age of 7-8. I’m a craddle Catholic. We were married by a JP but had a radical sanation to bless our marriage. We did talk about the upbringing of children before we married but I guess we didn’t speak of it enough, so now I’m faced w/this situation. And no, I don’t want to divorce him even though this could be grounds for an annullment.
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This post and similar ones over the years as well as personal friends that I have known in similar situations have led me to believe that such marriages are a mistake from the start and in all liklihood should still be forbidden by the Church. It never ceases to amaze me how people, in the interest of modern thinking or maybe even love, think that major religious and’/or philosophical differences just will not matter when children come on the scene.

How many times have we seen similar threads, ie: why my ex wife or husband promised, no they swore they would raise the children as Catholic and I just can’t believe it now. And what happens usually as a result?

Either Catholicism is not practiced or taught at all or in such a watered down version that it is not even recognizable as Catholicism. Doesn’t past experience teach people anything these days? Why do we persist in keeping our heads buried in the sand about these issues.

If religion is important, then our continued indifference and acceptance of beliefs other than our own is dishonest to ourselves and our faith, to our friends or partners etc and their faith and hurtful in the end result to all concerned…

Especially to the kids, who come away not knowing what to believe.
 
Postpone kids and start dealing w/ the fact that he’s changed his mind about something very serious. --KCT
 
Current Canon Law places the responsibility of raising children in the Catholic Faith, solely on the shoulders of the Catholic party, in a mixed marriage. The 1917 Code of Canon Law, required a non-Catholic party in a mixed marriage to enter into a written agreement to raise any children in the Catholic Faith. As a practical matter, this requirement was unenforceable. That fact accounts for the change in Canon Law. In your case, any Baptism of your children would have to be in the Catholic Church. Anything less, would be unacceptacle from the Church’s perspective. I would urge you to discuss your situation with a Priest or Deacon for any further advice they might offer.
 
The “getting away with” is very telling, sweetie. Why should you have to “get away” with things Catholic?
 
I have some friends who are atheists becasue of the so called compromise you are talking about. Confusion with relgion in children usually leads to atheism in my opinion.
 
I am sitting here and wondering if I am going to be going through the same things myself…
My husband is currently agnostic, but seems to enjoy making snide comments about Catholicism. He does attend Mass with me, but I guess that might be better than the alternative (service with his parents) in his eyes. He doesn’t enjoy either, as he feels they are silly. He thinks I am crazy and have gone off the deep end, religiously (in all fairness, I was a moral less pagan when we met).

I wonder what type of home my children will be raised in. As he has no religion, he defers to mine. But what if he “finds” his, and it’s not the Church?

Since he has deceived you before, and has revealed his deception as of late, I would be greatly concerned about deception later on. As people have recounted, children raised in mixed-religious households end up getting the short end of the stick from both religions. You have to make a choice, and you have to make it now, whatever that decision may be.
And I wonder why you point out to us that his behaviors are grounds for an annulment? Is your heart speaking to you?
 
I’m sorry Yessian, I do feel for you but I don’t think your head is on right, either you insist they be raised Catholic or you don’t have kids until that is a promise. I love my husband but God must come first and before we had kids (my hubby is Lutheran) I made it very, very clear that all kids must be raised Catholic or we would not be having kids and I would have seriously considered annulling my marriage, I love my Lord that much. God and his church come first over my wants. Maybe it would be different if you had kids already but you don’t have them yet, I can see this already, you’ll get pregnant and have your baby and then you’ll post that your husband and his family insisted the child be raised JW and you’ll give in and next you’ll also be JW… I know how the JW work, there is NO WAY that they will let you raise that child Catholic and you are fooling yourself big time… I’m sorry to be harsh but I am greatly and I mean greatly worried about you… your letting your emotions take over the reality in this situation… you have some serious choices to make… either you are going to insist that these future kids be raised Catholic 100% with NO going to the JW church or you need to consider if bringing children into this marriage is the right thing. Can you really believe your husband will allow you to raise this child Catholic? After all you have told us I don’t believe he can be trusted, he has broken so many promises already to you. Yes you love him but do you love God more?
I love my husband very much but I tell you now that if he tried to make me raise my kids in any faith beside the Catholic faith I would leave and take these kids with me and insist on serious help and if I didn’t have kids and he did this I would have my marriage annulled. That may be harsh but God and the church come first for me, I need to be with a man who is as much committed to the faith as I am and after 14 yrs of marriage my husband is taking RCIA classes this fall:) but I tell you that before I had kids this was already crystal clear… catholic kids or no kids at all.

I worry very much for you Yessian, you want so badly to believe this will be ok that you have your rose colored glasses on, but the rest of us can read between the lines and it just does NOT look good.

I will continue to Pray that things will change but please don’t compromise and please don’t bring innocent children into this until you have written agreement that your husband will never ever make your kids attend the JW church… I guarantee that if you have kids when this is not clear between you and your husband… you’ll post that the child will a JW and we will all weep with grief.
 
Yessian - it breaks my heart when I read that you “get away with” Catholic things in your home. That is NOT what a marriage should be. Prayers for you! Many many prayers for you.

And advice from my heart - to bring a child into this situation would be piling heartache on top of heartache. Children tend to see God in their earthly father, and to follow the earthly father’s example. Your children DESERVE a good Catholic faithful practicing man, as do you.
 
kage_ar said:
Yessian - it breaks my heart when I read that you “get away with” Catholic things in your home. That is NOT what a marriage should be. Prayers for you! Many many prayers for you.

And advice from my heart - to bring a child into this situation would be piling heartache on top of heartache. Children tend to see God in their earthly father, and to follow the earthly father’s example. Your children DESERVE a good Catholic faithful practicing man, as do you.
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:amen:
 
PatienceAndLove said:
And I wonder why you point out to us that his behaviors are grounds for an annulment? Is your heart speaking to you?
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Some people here on CAF have suggested I annull my marriage and just wanted to make it clear I’m not willing to do that. I’m not thinking that at all.
 
I posted this at another thread and just wanted to post it here twith some editing…

kamz, 1ke, kage_ar, I know I have posted some not so nice things about DH. We are all human beings and he struggles just as any of us do. He has thought about his sisters before me, but that has been worked on at Retrouvaille, and it shows he’s trying his best. He did stay at home instead of go to that trip w/his sisters. He already confronted his sister, the one who hates me about treating me the way she does, otherwise, I wouldn’t have had her over at my house for diner 2 wks ago.

When I post here, I don’t post all the nice things about him, I post the bad things because I have no one to talk to, and of course I cannot run to my mom telling her how things are in my marriage.

Back to the children thing… when we married civilly, we talked about bringing them up in both religions, but then when I wanted to have our marriage blessed, I had to promise to raise them Catholic, which in fact is what I’ve been wanting all along. Now that I changed that in our vows he is a bit upset. But he seems to be more lenient. Yesterday, I went home all depressed because of what I read on this thread. I spent some of my evening crying. I didn’t really want to talk to DH about it, but he insisted many times and I ended up telling him how I was afraid to have children and how it would bring more problems to our relationship. He was so comforting. He asked “Is it about baptism them? Because if it is, don’t worry. We’ll have kids, and you’ll see how you won’t have to worry at all”. Then we hugged and he kept on saying that because we both want to have me be a SAHM, that I was the one who’d teach the kids about God, that because I was the one who followed a faith and abide by it’s laws, that what better way to do it that the Catholic way. He’s failing his faith, he’s not attending his meetings, he misses 1 every week on Fridays because we go to Retrouvaille, and Wednesdays he rather stay home with me. He’s only going on Sundays if he’s not too tired. He’s not preaching, he’s not giving bible studies. On the other hand, I attend a catechist institute, I teach catechism, I go to Church every Sunday, and go to confession regularly. He sees I’m not giving up my religion and that it’s a good thing after all.

I feel bad for coming here and only posting the bad things about DH. He’s loving, caring, and kind. He loves to help others when in need, he loves his parents and his sisters, he loves his nephews and nieces, he loves my parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, siblings, and especially all my little cousins. Yes, he has his bad things, and yes, we’ve gone thru some tough times, but Retrouvaille is helping us deal with all the tough times. Even last Friday, one of the leader couples was telling us how amazed and proud they were to have a couple like us, fighting for our marriage despite of religious differences. They were impressed how we can still get along when some can’t do it both being Catholic. All marriages have ups and downs, and some do work, some don’t. But I do see mine succeeding. We’re not giving up.
 
Well, good luck then, I feel that you will need a miracle so I guess that is what we pray for… a miracle.
 
kamz said:
Maybe it would be different if you had kids already but you don’t have them yet, I can see this already, you’ll get pregnant and have your baby and then you’ll post that your husband and his family insisted the child be raised JW and you’ll give in and next you’ll also be JW… I know how the JW work, there is NO WAY that they will let you raise that child Catholic and you are fooling yourself big time… I’m sorry to be harsh but I am greatly and I mean greatly worried about you… your letting your emotions take over the reality in this situation… you have some serious choices to make… either you are going to insist that these future kids be raised Catholic 100% with NO going to the JW church or you need to consider if bringing children into this marriage is the right thing. Can you really believe your husband will allow you to raise this child Catholic? After all you have told us I don’t believe he can be trusted, he has broken so many promises already to you. Yes you love him but do you love God more?
I love my husband very much but I tell you now that if he tried to make me raise my kids in any faith beside the Catholic faith I would leave and take these kids with me and insist on serious help and if I didn’t have kids and he did this I would have my marriage annulled. That may be harsh but God and the church come first for me, I need to be with a man who is as much committed to the faith as I am and after 14 yrs of marriage my husband is taking RCIA classes this fall:) but I tell you that before I had kids this was already crystal clear… catholic kids or no kids at all.

I worry very much for you Yessian, you want so badly to believe this will be ok that you have your rose colored glasses on, but the rest of us can read between the lines and it just does NOT look good.

I will continue to Pray that things will change but please don’t compromise and please don’t bring innocent children into this until you have written agreement that your husband will never ever make your kids attend the JW church… I guarantee that if you have kids when this is not clear between you and your husband… you’ll post that the child will a JW and we will all weep with grief.
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There is no way in heck I would ever turn JW! No way, I know it’s a false religion and I know they lie their guts out to get people in their cult. That’s what they are, a CULT! I am too smart to fall for a cult, I’m educated well enough to know not to fall for that brainwashing group.

That said, DH only has **1 **sister here who is a JW. The other JW in his family lives over 300 miles away. His other 2 sisters are Catholic, his parents are Catholic. My ENTIRE family is Catholic. Do you think all those Catholics would let me fall for the JWs or even let me give up my children to the Watchtower? No way that’d ever happen, at least not while my parents are alive and live close to me. I have more than 50 adult Catholic family members close by against 1 JW to try and influence how we live and how we raise our future family.

My family already has won him over. He “hangs out” with my Catholic uncle all the time, he goes to play soccer with him and my Catholic cousin every week at least once a week. He doesn’t attend his JW meetings, he enters a Catholic chapel for Retrouvaille, he didn’t even come into Churchwhen it was my grandparents’ 50th anniversary or my uncle’s 3 yr anniversary of his death, but he did do it for our marriage. DH has soften up his heart a lot compared to how he used to be when we first met. The only reason why he still goes to his meetings when he does go, is because of his sister. He’s only afraid to let people think I “control” him. He did celebrate Christmas with me, not with my family, but he did with me at home, we celbrated New Years, my birthday, Valentines, Thanksgiving (with my entire family). He hides it from the JWs but he does these things. He is attending Retrouvaille, a Catholic program. Any real JW would’ve never done any of those things. I know of many JWs who won’t even speak to their children because they are disfellowshipped (DF’d) or because they aren’t JWs, yet, DH isn’t that way. He talks to his DF’d sister, who is now a Catholic. He has more Catholic friends now than JW friends.

The only reason we’re still married is because he didn’t oppose me to going thru with the radical sanation. The only time he had changed his mind about it is when I thought the Tribunal wanted to speak to him, and he thought it was to convert him. When they said they wouldn’t even bring him onto this, he didn’t oppose. Besides, do you think the Church would’ve allowed my marriage to be sanated if the Tribunal saw danger of losing my faith or of divorce? They saw it was a legitimate marriage that was open to children and did allow the sanation to be granted.

Anyway, I think I have made my point across about me never being a JW… sorry I went off like that.
 
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