Baptism compromise

[yessisan]

Thanks for all your support and kind words you guys! It helps to be here even though sometimes I hear things I wouldn’t want to hear, BUT they are things I need to hear, or should I say, read?

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Don’t think for a minute that I think the eternal salvation of one’s children is anything less than the most serious of issues, but I think everyone so far has been far to quick to assume that the religious danger posed by the father’s faith is a sufficiently grave reason (on its own) to delay pregnancy. Sure, JW is probably worse than plenty of other possibilities, but from a theological perspective the Church wouldn’t allow anyone to marry a JW in the first place if this *automatically *precluded bringing children into the mix. The begetting and education of children is, after all, a fundamental component of marriage. I would advise making sure to consult a solid confessor before making the judgment call to postpone children due to solely the religious issue.

 

[yessisan]

Don’t think for a minute that I think the eternal salvation of one’s children is anything less than the most serious of issues, but I think everyone so far has been far to quick to assume that the religious danger posed by the father’s faith is a sufficiently grave reason (on its own) to delay pregnancy. Sure, JW is probably worse than plenty of other possibilities, but from a theological perspective the Church wouldn’t allow anyone to marry a JW in the first place if this *automatically *precluded bringing children into the mix. The begetting and education of children is, after all, a fundamental component of marriage. I would advise making sure to consult a solid confessor before making the judgment call to postpone children due to solely the religious issue.

I have been thinking about speaking to a priest. I did not too long ago regarding doing the baptisms w/o telling DH, but he only said that’d be deception. He didn’t mention anything else.

And yet, the CC did allow my marriage to be valid and sacramental (since he used to be Catholic). They Tribunal took over 4 months to decide whether or not to allow us to have our marriage blessed. They sure didn’t see such serious dangers as to deny it.

Thanks for your comment. You do make a lot of sense. I still do think it’d be a grave sin if we avoided the children but still think it’d be a hard cross to carry if DH stays a JW, but yet, not an impossible one. I did marry him knowing he was a JW, didn’t I? I accepted him as he was, and vice versa. But still, I have to speak to a priest about this issue. I just wish the priest from Retrouvaille wasn’t in Spain. I do have his numbers from Spain, but I think it’d be very rude to bother him on his vacation, regardless of him giving us those numbers. That priest was so wonderful… I wish he was the pastor of my parish, bad thing is that his parish is about 65 miles away from my house.

 

[kamz]

And if you do have kids the biggest fight will be that you will be raising them Catholic and he must never take them to the JW church and also you must be free to teach your children about what it means and is to be Catholic with Mass every week and living a Catholic life in the home, if your husband ever undermines that your work will be at risk, kids can’t have that kind of confusion, look at your husband, he is very confused, would you want that for your child? Kids can’t go to two different churches and not get confused, it is one or the other and no in between, it is not something that can be reached with a deal… it is Catholic or Catholic and you have to be solid and firm and if your husband says "ok, Catholic All the way and no JW church EVER then you can go ahead but until he makes that promise you have a lot of things to deal with.

 

[yessisan]

The fact the my DH isn’t Catholic doesn’t mean my marriage will fail. If we have children, it doesn’t mean the marriage will be a disaster. There are many Catholics married to non-Catholics that do great. Some of those marriages bring up their kids as non-Catholics, some as Catholics. It is my obligation to TRY all in my power to raise them Catholic but the CC doesn’t forbid having children if they won’t be Catholic.

Of course I want them to be Catholic, but of course, regardless of DH agreeing 100% to raise them Catholic, the children will be wondering about their father’s beliefs. A couple in Retrouvaille said to me they brought up all their kids as Catholic, but now, one of their sons, at age 25 is becoming a Protestant and is being baptized as such because he says he doesn’t remember choosing to be baptized, and for all he knows, he wasn’t baptized.

I know God will help me out on this, and if DH doesn’t agree to not take them to his KH, I cannot say no to having children.

Catholic Update Here it says the Church believes preserving the marriage is of utter importance but it doesn’t say to not welcome children into the marriage. That is why they require the Catholic party to promise they’ll do what they can to raise them Catholic and it doesn’t prohibit the couple from letting the children know the other parent’s faith. It does say though, that it’s crucial to upbring them w/the foundation of religion, and that wouldn’t be lacking at my house.

I believe DH is very lenient towards Catholicism now, and as a Catholic, I will not refuse to bring kids to this world.

 

[kamz]

When my cousin who was Lutheran at the time married his Catholic wife in a full Catholic ceremony the Priest asked them during their vows if they would raise any and all children in the Catholic faith and they both said WE WILL, thankfully my cousin has since become Catholic but when they went through marriage counseling and even when I went through it 15 years ago, the Priest asked the one that was not Catholic… “do you understand that all children born of this marriage MUST be raised Catholic”
I don’t want to rain on your parade and I know that you greatly desire children but don’t fool yourself, as a Catholic it is your responsibility to raise your kids Catholic… sure, tell them about their dads faith, I know I told my kids about their daddy’s faith but NEVER did they enter that Lutheran church and my husband respected me and the promises he made in our marriage in the beginning that these kids would be raised Catholic and after 14 years my husband wants to be Catholic… 14 years of no compromise on the fact that these kids would be Catholic and nothing else… has it been easy for me? No way but it is a promise I made to God and his Church. Of course you can have kids and you can tell them about their dads beliefs but are you willing to tell your husband if he pressures you to let those kids go to the JW that you will not allow it?

Of course it is up to you but for me, I could never do it, as I said God first and family second, I guess I’m just one of those “fanatic Catholics”

 

[yessisan]

When my cousin who was Lutheran at the time married his Catholic wife in a full Catholic ceremony the Priest asked them during their vows if they would raise any and all children in the Catholic faith and they both said WE WILL, thankfully my cousin has since become Catholic but when they went through marriage counseling and even when I went through it 15 years ago, the Priest asked the one that was not Catholic… “do you understand that all children born of this marriage MUST be raised Catholic”
I don’t want to rain on your parade and I know that you greatly desire children but don’t fool yourself, as a Catholic it is your responsibility to raise your kids Catholic… sure, tell them about their dads faith, I know I told my kids about their daddy’s faith but NEVER did they enter that Lutheran church and my husband respected me and the promises he made in our marriage in the beginning that these kids would be raised Catholic and after 14 years my husband wants to be Catholic… 14 years of no compromise on the fact that these kids would be Catholic and nothing else… has it been easy for me? No way but it is a promise I made to God and his Church. Of course you can have kids and you can tell them about their dads beliefs but are you willing to tell your husband if he pressures you to let those kids go to the JW that you will not allow it?

Of course it is up to you but for me, I could never do it, as I said God first and family second, I guess I’m just one of those “fanatic Catholics”

You do understand though that my marriage was not in a CC, right? It was sanated and it took over 4 months to get the petition approved. DH didn’t want a Catholic wedding, this is why the marriage was sanated. Also, my understanding is that the non-Catholic party doesn’t have to promise anything any more. It is the Catholic party who does; and I did.

It isn’t his responsibility, it’s mine. I know people might not like it that mixed marriages are allowed, especially because of the children issue, but they are, and I’m more than sure the CC knows not all Catholics will raise the children Catholic. I’m pretty sure they look at the dangers of this not happening, they must do this, otherwise, how could they allow such marriages to take place? I, on the other hand, will try all I can to raise them Catholic. As long as I try my best, I’m doing what the CCC is telling me to do.

Hopefully DH will come back to the CC, and hopefully he won’t change his mind after our talk 2 nights ago. Aside from all this, I do have it on paper that they will be raised catholic, and he did see this paper. As far as the JWs getting involved if never leaves the WT, all I have to do is show them this paper and they’ll see that I didn’t make it up.

Anywho… this topic exhausts me. I think I’m going to call it quits. I will have children one day and God willing, DH will not interfere with their religious upbringing. BUT I will speak to a priest before we even think about having any.

Thank you all for your answers and concerns.

 

[leonie]

I’ve noticed a lot of women do better spiritually in marriages in which they are somewhat persecuted for their faith. When they divorce, they fall apart spiritually. . I’m making a generalization, but I’ve observed this in several family members and a few friends/acquaintances. Because of this, I think most women are better off staying in a marriage like this (as long as there is no abuse, of course).

You need to make an appointment with your priest to discuss this matter. Really, you need expert guidance.

The truth is that children generally follow their father’s example. I discussed a study with a Legionary priest. He told me that in families where the mother practices the Faith and the father does not, less than 20% of the children practice as adults. Where both practice, 50% of the kids practice as a adults. Where only the father practices, 80% of the kids do!

But, at the same time, to *not *have children… I couldn’t do it. I would be realistic, but hopeful. St. Monica was married to a pagan and had pagan children, but was able to convert them through prayer and example. If she had never had children out of fear, we wouldn’t have St. Augustine.

Be like the Cure of Ars. He converted a whole town–a large part of France solely through fasting and prayer. At one point, he didn’t see much progress as a result of his fasting, so he began to get up in the middle of the night to pray. Be the Cure of Ars for your family.

I know you pray, but do you fast?

God bless you. I can really sympathize. My dh didn’t know what hit him when I went from being a nonpracticing, uncatechized Catholic to an on fire, devout Catholic. It really threw him for a loop. I’m impressed that your dh is cooperating with NFP. That’ makes him more Catholic in practice than 90% of Catholics.

Be hopeful. Don’t give in to discouragement.

 

[yessisan]

I’ve noticed a lot of women do better spiritually in marriages in which they are somewhat persecuted for their faith. When they divorce, they fall apart spiritually. . I’m making a generalization, but I’ve observed this in several family members and a few friends/acquaintances. Because of this, I think most women are better off staying in a marriage like this (as long as there is no abuse, of course).

You need to make an appointment with your priest to discuss this matter. Really, you need expert guidance.

The truth is that children generally follow their father’s example. I discussed a study with a Legionary priest. He told me that in families where the mother practices the Faith and the father does not, less than 20% of the children practice as adults. Where both practice, 50% of the kids practice as a adults. Where only the father practices, 80% of the kids do!

But, at the same time, to *not *have children… I couldn’t do it. I would be realistic, but hopeful. St. Monica was married to a pagan and had pagan children, but was able to convert them through prayer and example. If she had never had children out of fear, we wouldn’t have St. Augustine.

Be like the Cure of Ars. He converted a whole town–a large part of France solely through fasting and prayer. At one point, he didn’t see much progress as a result of his fasting, so he began to get up in the middle of the night to pray. Be the Cure of Ars for your family.

I know you pray, but do you fast?

God bless you. I can really sympathize. My dh didn’t know what hit him when I went from being a nonpracticing, uncatechized Catholic to an on fire, devout Catholic. It really threw him for a loop. I’m impressed that your dh is cooperating with NFP. That’ makes him more Catholic in practice than 90% of Catholics.

Be hopeful. Don’t give in to discouragement.

I said I was done w/this topic but I wanted to answer and thank you for your wonderful post.

I’m not sure where you got those numbers, but I grew up w/o my dad and I do follow the faith, but then again, that’s 1 of 3 children of that marriage. I did, however, become more God directed when I met DH. I was not attending Mass, I was not leading a good Christian life, but when I met him, I made the choice to be confirmed and here I am, being a catechist, attending Mass every Sunday, already fixed the invalidity of our marriage, am receiving communion… because of him, I’m a better Catholic.

And yes, St. Monica is my hope. I didn’t know about Cure of Ars… but I do not really fast. I do sometimes, more like rarely (aside from Sundays). I don’t eat anything on Sundays until after Mass, which is in between 11 & 1.

I’ll try the fasting, and more praying. I’ve been neglecting it a little. I don’t know if I’m praying correctly either… God knows my intentions regardless of how I pray. But I do have hope on DH’s conversion.

I know children will come along whether he converts or not. And that’s just something I’m not willing to deny my marriage of… he’s wonderful w/kids, he loves kids, so do I. Having him agree w/NFP means he also is open to life. He’s 100% agaist ABC and abortion (of course after I came along because JWs believe in ABC - now he is against it)… so how could I say no to making him a father? It’s not happening now but it will happen one day.

 

[kamz]

I tell you one thing, I NEVER thought my hubby would be Catholic… I hoped and I Prayed and sometimes I figured “I don’t care anymore” even though deep down I did, I think it was when I finally said “Ok, Lord, I can’t make this happen, this is in your hands and not mine” that was 8 years ago… before that time I nagged and worried etc. over it but 8 years ago I said, I can’t change him on my own Lord and all I can do is show him, show him about Catholics and what our faith is all about and slowly he started asking questions and then for many years he came to church with me and the kids and then went to his own church after… and this last year he totally stopped going to his church and I just stayed very quiet and Prayed and fasted and two months ago he contacted My Priest to get enrolled in the RCIA classes and he told me “I’m ready now” and I just said “Praise the Lord” It can happen and I think it will happen for your husband too, maybe not for 1 yr or 50 but it will happen… just keep doing whatever your doing… baby steps are better than nothing, believe me And don’t nag… I was really, really a bad nagger about it and I really regret that.

 

[Marian_Carroll]

As the OP has indicated the topic is now concluded, the thread is closed.

Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion.