Baptism compromise

[kamz]

Well, I’m glad to know that you will always stay Catholic but can you understand how easily we all get confused? One need only go and look at your past posts to see that one day your marriage is up and the next it is down, one day he says you’ll raise the kids Catholic the next day he says no way and these posts are all in the same month sometimes.

And the time he hit you and your dog? I’m sorry but for me, that would have been the last straw, my husband would rather chop off his hand than strike a woman.

Do I think your husband is making some strides? Yes he is but this is so early on in the game, when you have reached five years then I will say “wow, this looks like he really may change” like you say the JW is a cult and they are not going to let him go so easily and when you have a baby the JW’s are going to look at your baby as a “new member” and they are going to come a calling to your hubby and play on his emotions, they will say all the right things to try to convince him to raise that child JW and your husband is very weak in his spiritual life and that is where you must step up and say NO Way, No How this child is 100% Catholic and it will not ever be going to the JW church until it is 18 and can decide for itself, are you willing to do this? A Catholic must be willing to lay it all down for their child, I know I would, if your hubby was mine and he ever, ever said that the child should go to both churches I would say “over my dead body”

I have no doubt that you will remain Catholic but I do have doubts that your husband will stay true to any promises that your children will be 100% Catholic and that is just from going back and reading all your previous threads on these topics, your husband flip flops a lot .

But again, in the end, it is up to you and in the end if you have kids and he decides he wants them to attend the JW… that is for you to deal with.

But, do you see how confusing it can be for some of us reading your posts? It is a new story each day, and sure, marriage has its ups and down but in 14 years I have never had this many but I guess I’m just really blessed, Good Luck and God Bless!

 

[foxc1]

I have not yet read all the posts, so I hope I’m not repeating anything. yessian, you and your hubby are the only ones who will have a say on how you raise your children. I don’t know why you let all of this bother you so much. God will only give you children if he thinks you can bear the load, otherwise, He would never give you a child. If it’s for your salvation, as granny always says, it will happen.

Have you seen the new page for married people from the USCCB? I believe it’s foryourmarriage.com or .org There is a Catholic Update that talks about interfaith marriages and it touches on children and how to live in an interfaith marriage. I believe it says you have to show the children both faiths. I’d go with what the Church says. Just remember that you were the one to make the promise of raising any and all children Catholic, your hubby didn’t have to promise that. You have to come to an agreement on how to raise them.

May God bring your home some peace of mind.

 

[yessisan]

One more thing… I greatly appreciate all of your concerns. I really do. I don’t want you guys thinking I’m ungrateful. I just feel I’ve made DH look like a mean ogre, when he’s really not that bad.

 

[yessisan]

And the time he hit you and your dog? I’m sorry but for me, that would have been the last straw, my husband would rather chop off his hand than strike a woman.

Do I think your husband is making some strides? Yes he is but this is so early on in the game, when you have reached five years then I will say “wow, this looks like he really may change” like you say the JW is a cult and they are not going to let him go so easily and when you have a baby the JW’s are going to look at your baby as a “new member” and they are going to come a calling to your hubby and play on his emotions, they will say all the right things to try to convince him to raise that child JW and your husband is very weak in his spiritual life and that is where you must step up and say NO Way, No How this child is 100% Catholic and it will not ever be going to the JW church until it is 18 and can decide for itself, are you willing to do this? A Catholic must be willing to lay it all down for their child, I know I would, if your hubby was mine and he ever, ever said that the child should go to both churches I would say “over my dead body”

I have no doubt that you will remain Catholic but I do have doubts that your husband will stay true to any promises that your children will be 100% Catholic and that is just from going back and reading all your previous threads on these topics, your husband flip flops a lot .

But again, in the end, it is up to you and in the end if you have kids and he decides he wants them to attend the JW… that is for you to deal with.

But, do you see how confusing it can be for some of us reading your posts? It is a new story each day, and sure, marriage has its ups and down but in 14 years I have never had this many but I guess I’m just really blessed, Good Luck and God Bless!

Thank you for your concerns, you always have great things to say to me.

I know I’ve been thru many ups & downs w/Dh, & I hope it all ends up my way. I do want my children to be Catholic, & I was even willing to baptize them against his will or even behind his back, but my priest said not to do that, so I had to find a different way to do it…

You are right that one day my posts say something, & the next something else, I feel like I’m playing ping-pong. I think I worry too much, even DH says so, but I do believe my children’s souls are at sake. Well, I don’t even know if we can physically have children or not, but I’m assuming we do, & if we do, I am willing to put up the fights for their souls. He knows I don’t like the JWs. He knows I am very opinionated & I’m very hard headed. When I get something in my head, you can’t get it out, especially that of religion. I know I will have my family’s support on this, & I think I could handle it if we were to have a child, but then again, I don’t want to have arguments about the children when they would be here already.

You know, I am not making excuses for DH & that time he hit me & our dog. I never knew he would dare to do that. But I know it won’t happen again, & I won’t let it happen again. & if it ever did, he knows it better than he knows the bible that I will be out the door 2 seconds after that.

He’s only a JW by name, he doesn’t live out as one. Have you ever seen a JW who doesn’t preach? One who has Catholic friends? DH is a bit weak spiritually, well, more like a lot, but he has his doubts but is afraid to look for the truth. I have seen it in his eyes when we go to Retrouvaille. He just stares at Jesus on the cross non-stop, & he tries to hide it when he notices I’m looking at him. He asks why certain things are where they are on the wall, ie, the ways of the cross. You know, to my surprise, he spoke to the priest at Retrouvaille one the first weekend. He refused to speak to a priest before the radical sanation, yet he already did at Retrouvaille. No JW ever steps on those grounds, it’s 110% forbidden. He just needs more time I think, & less pressuring from my side, even though I have never pressured him to becoming Catholic. All I’ve told him is that he only knows what the JWs say about the Catholics but he has seen a very different example at home. In fact, he tells me he hates to be at the meetings listening to them bad-mouthing the Catholics. He says it makes him very uncomfortable, that he never noticed before, but now that he’s married to me he says he’s been wanting to tell them to stop doing it because it’s disrespectful.

I know God will take him out of that cult. God works in great ways. I don’t know when he’ll come out of that box, but he will someday. I leave it to God’s hands and trust He will take him out of there, whether it’s in a yr or 10 yrs from now.

 

[kamz]

Thank you for your concerns, you always have great things to say to me.

I know I’ve been thru many ups & downs w/Dh, & I hope it all ends up my way. I do want my children to be Catholic, & I was even willing to baptize them against his will or even behind his back, but my priest said not to do that, so I had to find a different way to do it…

You are right that one day my posts say something, & the next something else, I feel like I’m playing ping-pong. I think I worry too much, even DH says so, but I do believe my children’s souls are at sake. Well, I don’t even know if we can physically have children or not, but I’m assuming we do, & if we do, I am willing to put up the fights for their souls. He knows I don’t like the JWs. He knows I am very opinionated & I’m very hard headed. When I get something in my head, you can’t get it out, especially that of religion. I know I will have my family’s support on this, & I think I could handle it if we were to have a child, but then again, I don’t want to have arguments about the children when they would be here already.

You know, I am not making excuses for DH & that time he hit me & our dog. I never knew he would dare to do that. But I know it won’t happen again, & I won’t let it happen again. & if it ever did, he knows it better than he knows the bible that I will be out the door 2 seconds after that.

He’s only a JW by name, he doesn’t live out as one. Have you ever seen a JW who doesn’t preach? One who has Catholic friends? DH is a bit weak spiritually, well, more like a lot, but he has his doubts but is afraid to look for the truth. I have seen it in his eyes when we go to Retrouvaille. He just stares at Jesus on the cross non-stop, & he tries to hide it when he notices I’m looking at him. He asks why certain things are where they are on the wall, ie, the ways of the cross. You know, to my surprise, he spoke to the priest at Retrouvaille one the first weekend. He refused to speak to a priest before the radical sanation, yet he already did at Retrouvaille. No JW ever steps on those grounds, it’s 110% forbidden. He just needs more time I think, & less pressuring from my side, even though I have never pressured him to becoming Catholic. All I’ve told him is that he only knows what the JWs say about the Catholics but he has seen a very different example at home. In fact, he tells me he hates to be at the meetings listening to them bad-mouthing the Catholics. He says it makes him very uncomfortable, that he never noticed before, but now that he’s married to me he says he’s been wanting to tell them to stop doing it because it’s disrespectful.

I know God will take him out of that cult. God works in great ways. I don’t know when he’ll come out of that box, but he will someday. I leave it to God’s hands and trust He will take him out of there, whether it’s in a yr or 10 yrs from now.

Well, you have my prayers and I know others as well here on these boards, and we will never stop storming the Heaven’s for your husband to be saved and shown the truth. You are very strong and maybe right now this is your cross and I admire the fact that you take it up and carry it without question, that really shows your faith and trust in the Lord over this-my very best wishes!

 

[yessisan]

I have not yet read all the posts, so I hope I’m not repeating anything. yessian, you and your hubby are the only ones who will have a say on how you raise your children. I don’t know why you let all of this bother you so much. God will only give you children if he thinks you can bear the load, otherwise, He would never give you a child. If it’s for your salvation, as granny always says, it will happen.

Have you seen the new page for married people from the USCCB? I believe it’s foryourmarriage.com or .org There is a Catholic Update that talks about interfaith marriages and it touches on children and how to live in an interfaith marriage. I believe it says you have to show the children both faiths. I’d go with what the Church says. Just remember that you were the one to make the promise of raising any and all children Catholic, your hubby didn’t have to promise that. You have to come to an agreement on how to raise them.

May God bring your home some peace of mind.

Thanks for your words. I know God will only give us a child if we’re ready for one. I always tell DH the same thing over and over again. If God gives us one, it’s because He knows we can handle it.

About that site, I’ve seen it, in fact, I think 1ke posted it not so long ago. I even ordered that Catholic Update you’re speaking of. I just cannot remember all it says. I’ll have to take another look at that. I know the other posters are worried about me. CAF is like another family for me. I cannot discuss any of these things w/anyone in my family or my friends because they think I’m too young to have children, or that I am just TOO involved in the CC. I don’t want to look like a 2 face. Before I nevr cared about the CC, I even asked my grandmother to not ever talk about God to me because in this country we’re not supposed to bother others with God this or God that. i broke my grnadma’s heart, but because of how she is, I chose her to be my sponsor for my confirmation since my godparents for my baptism are not good Catholics at all.

I want my children to be Catholic and don’t even want them to know Jehovah. I want them to know Yahweh - God the Father, Jesus -God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I want them to think as I did when I was a child. I even thought I’d become a nun when I was in Catholic grade school. I want my children to go to Catholic school, I want them to be involved in the CC, be altar boys, choir girls, dress as Our Lady of Guadalupe and Saint Juan Diego… I want them to celebrate Jesus’ birth and death, I want them to have a childhood, not rob them of all those precious things JW kids are robbed of.

I need to put both feet on earth, I need to let God do it His way. It’s just hard when I know I’m getting to close to being 30 and when I love children so much.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Yessi,
your DH may not live up to his promise about the children but that does not relieve you of your promise. Even if he takes them to the meetings and does not want them baptized, you still have to make sure they are baptized and properly catechized. Are you willing to do what you may have to do? JWs require obedience from the wife to the husband exclusively—you cannot give that to him in the way they require it. I have seen some very sad situations where the wife had to secretly have the children baptized and had to insist–even being beaten for it in one instance–that the children were raised Catholic.
I am sorry you are going thru this. There is no way I would be, I would wait on the children until DH grew up himself.

 

[yessisan]

Yessi,
your DH may not live up to his promise about the children but that does not relieve you of your promise. Even if he takes them to the meetings and does not want them baptized, you still have to make sure they are baptized and properly catechized. Are you willing to do what you may have to do? JWs require obedience from the wife to the husband exclusively—you cannot give that to him in the way they require it. I have seen some very sad situations where the wife had to secretly have the children baptized and had to insist–even being beaten for it in one instance–that the children were raised Catholic.
I am sorry you are going thru this. There is no way I would be, I would wait on the children until DH grew up himself.

Hi Ravyn! Haven’t seen you around for a while. Hope your situation has gotten better!

Thanks for your post. You know, I am willing to do it all to get them baptized if we had children before getting him to promise they’ll be Catholic. The only problem I see there though, is that my priest said I couldn’t do it behind DH’s back or w/o his consent. He said it’d be deception so I am stuck in that one.

Oh, and they’ll be properly catechized, I’m a catechist, and if it means I have to be their catechist, then, so be it.

About the wife being obedient to their husbands, DH and I just had a bit of an argument on this because I pointed out to him what the Church says on that topic, and he said everyone interprets the Bible in different ways. But he did go on saying he doesn’t expect me to obey him, and that he wouldn’t tell me what to do, even though he’s tried 2 or 3 times. Before we married he mentioned the submissive wife thing, and I couldn’t help it but laugh in fornt of him. Finally I had a good Catholic book to explain the CC’s position on that. I just got Good News about Sex and Marriage on the mail yesterday and that was the one thing I read aloud for him. We ended the small argument with “I don’t expect you to obey me and I won’t tell you what to do. I’ll ask for your opinion…” so, the more literature I have there, the more tempted he wil be to read it (I hope). He already read the NFP book cover to cover and went to the classes w/me, and it is a Catholic book full of Catholic references. And again… Retrouvaille… gotta love that program!!

 

[yessisan]

Oh, one thing I forgot to say too… I have a paper from the marriage Tribunal saying we will raise any and all children of this marriage Catholic. kamz would this count as having it on writing? He didn’t sign anything but it does say that that’s one of the 3-4 reasons they granted the sanation… is that a legal paper?

 

[kamz]

Oh, one thing I forgot to say too… I have a paper from the marriage Tribunal saying we will raise any and all children of this marriage Catholic. kamz would this count as having it on writing? He didn’t sign anything but it does say that that’s one of the 3-4 reasons they granted the sanation… is that a legal paper?

Well, show it to him and see what he says, all you can do is keep trying and let him know that when it comes to kids you simply will not be backing down and hopefully if he really wants kids he will agree.

My kids go to Catholic school… it is AWESOME

 

[Aramis]

Do NOT Compromise.

His refusal to adhere to the religious promise is indicative of far deeper problems that can and will arise later on. He quite obviously feels that he can lie to you with impunity, at least on one issue.

Bringing children in to such a situation is not healthy.

 

[KCT]

I know the desire for a child is strong! But please pay attention to what folks here are saying. Don’t let emotions (and hormones get in the way.

If your hubby has been violent, and has changed his mind about important issues, you might want to hold off on kids. At least for a while. —KCT

 

[1ke]

I must comment on the “God will not give you a baby unless he wants you to have one” thing. This is a serious distortion of the way God works in the world. He allows us FREE WILL.

If you have sex during your fertile phases, God will allow the natural consequences regardless of whether or not that was in His will for you at the time.

To say otherwise is to say that God directly wills crack babies to be born of their addicted, unwed, prostitute mothers. Which is, of course, nonsense.

God has a Divine Will for all of us. But, he has a Permissive Will too. One that allows us free action, and the resulting consequences. So, do not go around thinking you will **only **get pregnant if it’s “God’s will”.

 

[yessisan]

I must comment on the “God will not give you a baby unless he wants you to have one” thing. This is a serious distortion of the way God works in the world. He allows us FREE WILL.

If you have sex during your fertile phases, God will allow the natural consequences regardless of whether or not that was in His will for you at the time.

To say otherwise is to say that God directly wills crack babies to be born of their addicted, unwed, prostitute mothers. Which is, of course, nonsense.

God has a Divine Will for all of us. But, he has a Permissive Will too. One that allows us free action, and the resulting consequences. So, do not go around thinking you will **only **get pregnant if it’s “God’s will”.

I was talking about being careful and observing my NFP charts… we’re extra careful, we abide by rule C of STM, meaning we use the most conservative rule… and if I read my charts correctly and abstain till phase 3 starts under rule C, then it’d be God’s work, not my free will.

 

[1ke]

I was talking about being careful and observing my NFP charts… we’re extra careful, we abide by rule C of STM, meaning we use the most conservative rule… and if I read my charts correctly and abstain till phase 3 starts under rule C, then it’d be God’s work, not my free will.

I was actually referring to the other poster who brought up this idea, not specifically posting to you… sorry for any confusion.

I think it’s good that you are postponing until you get this worked out with your DH.

 

[yessisan]

I was actually referring to the other poster who brought up this idea, not specifically posting to you… sorry for any confusion.

I think it’s good that you are postponing until you get this worked out with your DH.

Sorry if I got confused, but I did say that too, so I took the comment because it fit me…

We are waiting, I’m just so afraid the children will never happen for us.

 

[kamz]

Sorry if I got confused, but I did say that too, so I took the comment because it fit me…

We are waiting, I’m just so afraid the children will never happen for us.

One thing at a time. God wants those kids to belong to his Church and he knows very well that you are waiting to make sure that happens, you are being so responsible. It will happen but it will happen in God’s time, God wouldn’t want you to bring a child into this right now, trust him on this and just keep all your focus and prayers on changing your husband, once that happens the rest can fall into place.

 

[yessisan]

One thing at a time. God wants those kids to belong to his Church and he knows very well that you are waiting to make sure that happens, you are being so responsible. It will happen but it will happen in God’s time, God wouldn’t want you to bring a child into this right now, trust him on this and just keep all your focus and prayers on changing your husband, once that happens the rest can fall into place.

It’s just taking so loooong… I know, St. Monica prayed for years and her DH and DS converted. It’s just that I don’t want to wait 10 yrs and miss out on having children

 

[KCT]

It’s just taking so loooong… I know, St. Monica prayed for years and her DH and DS converted. It’s just that I don’t want to wait 10 yrs and miss out on having children

It is hard. But the heartbreak of not having kids may be less than the heartbreak of having kids and your hubby not agreeing about Catholicism. By that time you’ll have kids involved in the mix rather than just 2 adults. —KCT

 

[kamz]

It’s just taking so loooong… I know, St. Monica prayed for years and her DH and DS converted. It’s just that I don’t want to wait 10 yrs and miss out on having children

I know, but you must know in your heart that until you have your husbands 100% agreement that the children will never enter a JW church and will be raised Catholic and he must also tell you that he won’t suddenly “change” his mind, until all this is promised, you would be taking a huge risk. Yes, your hubby is making progress but with progress does also come a few steps back every now and then, you know the saying “one step forward and two steps back”? This might be your cross to carry, so ask the Lord to help you carry this cross and even when the cross is heavy just keep thanking him for it.