Baptism/Confirmation before marriage

[QuasiCatholic]

I was raised by Methodist parents who did not regularly attend church and did not have any of us children baptized, preferring instead to teach us right from wrong themselves and then let us find our own spiritual paths in our own time.

(I know a lot of people think parents have to “make” their kids religious, but honestly I think their system worked pretty well, all things considered.)

Anyway – flash forward 30 years and I’m dating a devout Catholic who has convinced me to become a regular attendee at his church. I’ve decided I would like to be baptized, and since I’m attending a Catholic church, it seems like that would be the place to do it. I DO NOT, however, intend to fully convert to Catholicism as I have several philosophical differences with the Church.

Here’s my question: I’ve read that if you are a baptized Catholic, you are required to finish confirmation before you can be married. Is this true even if the other party is a full Catholic? I don’t understand why it would make a difference since he could get a dispensation to marry me even if I weren’t baptized at all. If it is true, it seems like I’d be better off getting baptized as a Methodist…

Anyone know what the real rules here are? Thanks!

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

When adults are baptized in the Catholic Church they actually receive all of their sacraments of initiation at the same Mass – they are baptized, confirmed, and receive their First Communion. This generally happens at the Easter Vigil, the glorious Mass on the night before Easter. So you don’t need to worry that you might have to do further preparation to be confirmed.

What is more of a concern is your statement, “I DO NOT, however, intend to fully convert to Catholicism as I have several philosophical differences with the Church.” You can’t become partially Catholic. If you are baptized you will be as fully Catholic as the Pope!

I wouldn’t reject baptism based on this idea. Going through the RCIA process (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults) will give you a chance to learn what it means to be Catholic. At the very least, you will have a better understanding of your fiance’s beliefs. If you go into it with an open mind, you may find those philosophical differences aren’t as great as you think.

 

[jen197577]

You should talk to a priest regarding your questions. Make an appointment to do so and get their help.

When you are baptized into a Faith, it is very important to follow thru and practice that faith. Don’t rush into anything without really knowing what it is all about.

Marriage should also be forever. A family that prays together, stays together. My husband and I have been together for 43 years and we attend Church every Sunday and pray together regularly and I can tell you God has blessed us and has helped us get through the hard times.

Good luck to you and yours,

 

[QuasiCatholic]

Baptism is universal across all Christian denominations provided it follows the “in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the holy spirit” format. That’s why, if I were baptized as a Methodist, and THEN converted, the Catholic church would not re-baptize me.

So clearly baptism is not what makes you “as fully Catholic as the Pope.” If that were true, you wouldn’t need the confirmation at all.

It seems to me that it’s more accurate to say that baptism is what makes you Christian – regardless of who performs it for you – and as such I would think the Catholic church would be happy to help people out with that, and not be creating more roadblocks along the way. But that doesn’t seem to be the case…

 

[QuasiCatholic]

I guess what I’m saying is that I’m currently living (and plan to continue living) as a nondenominational Christian who happens to attend a Catholic church. Given those circumstances, how am I supposed to go about getting baptized? I don’t know how a Methodist minister would feel about baptizing someone who had no intention of attending their church; and it seems like Catholic priests don’t want to do it unless I’m willing to give up my nondenominational status.

 

[Corki]

Baptism is universal across all Christian denominations provided it follows the “in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the holy spirit” format. That’s why, if I were baptized as a Methodist, and THEN converted, the Catholic church would not re-baptize me.

So clearly baptism is not what makes you “as fully Catholic as the Pope.” If that were true, you wouldn’t need the confirmation at all.

It seems to me that it’s more accurate to say that baptism is what makes you Christian – regardless of who performs it for you – and as such I would think the Catholic church would be happy to help people out with that, and not be creating more roadblocks along the way. But that doesn’t seem to be the case…

Baptism is what makes you Christian, on that you are correct. But if you are Baptized a Catholic, it also makes you Catholic. There is no way to be Baptized into the Catholic Chuch without becoming Catholic. The ordinary form would be to be Baptized, Confirmed and receive your First Communion all at the same Mass fully completing the Sacraments of iniitation. But if some circumstance, such as danger of death, caused you to only recieve the Sacrament of Baptism - you would still be Catholic.

 

[jmcrae]

I guess what I’m saying is that I’m currently living (and plan to continue living) as a nondenominational Christian who happens to attend a Catholic church. Given those circumstances, how am I supposed to go about getting baptized? I don’t know how a Methodist minister would feel about baptizing someone who had no intention of attending their church; and it seems like Catholic priests don’t want to do it unless I’m willing to give up my nondenominational status.

Why do you want to be baptized, if not to practice the form of Christianity into which you would be baptized?

Baptism is a Sacrament of Conversion - you become the thing into which you are being baptized. If into a Catholic Church, then you become a Catholic. If into a Methodist Church, then you become a Methodist. Etc. It’s supposed to change your life in a real and material way - it should change how you wake up in the morning, how you do your daily work, how you rest and relax, how you eat, how you sleep, how you pray, and how you worship God.

If not, then what’s the point?

 

[Used2beSherryG]

I guess what I’m saying is that I’m currently living (and plan to continue living) as a nondenominational Christian who happens to attend a Catholic church. Given those circumstances, how am I supposed to go about getting baptized? I don’t know how a Methodist minister would feel about baptizing someone who had no intention of attending their church; and it seems like Catholic priests don’t want to do it unless I’m willing to give up my nondenominational status.

Why would you not be open to learning more about the catholic faith through attendance at RCIA classes? Sounds like your mind is snapped tightly shut against the catholic faith. If you are marrying a devout Catholic, you should at least LEARN about the faith, giving some thought to the idea that you may be prejudiced against the Catholic Church for no real good reason. If you are willing to keep an open mind in this matter for the good of your own soul and the good of your marriage, you will be pleasantly surprised when you learn the full truth about the beauty and truth of the Catholic faith as handed down through the ages since Jesus walked among us.
You mentioned that your parents theory of raising you with no faith turned out so well…if by that you mean that you are happy to have been denied the possibility of the grace of Baptism, then I urge you to at least attend RCIA with an open mind and a loving heart, for the good of your own soul and a happy life with your devout Catholic spouse. May God grant you the grace to be willing to learn.

 

[QuasiCatholic]

Why do so many Catholics assume that someone who has philosophical differences with the Church is simply ignorant of the church’s positions?

I’ve been attending Catholic church on a weekly basis for nearly a year now. I’ve been there every weekend and on every holy day of obligation. I abstained from meat on Fridays during Lent in a show of solidarity with my boyfriend. I had a pretty good grasp on the Church’s beliefs before ever meeting my SO, and I’ve since read “Catholicism for Dummies” from cover to cover and am about halfway through the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I give financially to the church I attend and support its charitable works, not out of a sense of religious obligation but because I respect the service they provide for the community – just as I would if I were at a Protestant church.

My boyfriend has told me repeatedly that I’m probably a better Catholic than most people who actually identify as such.

That being said – I’m still not interested in converting – and he’s fine with that. I attend a Catholic church because it is fairly easy for me to practice my faith within the confines of a Catholic Mass, but it would not be possible at all for my boyfriend to practice his faith at a Methodist service – and reinforcing what’s similar about our beliefs by attending church as a couple is more important to us than focusing on the (relatively minor) differences by going to separate churches.

I’m frustrated by the fact that my efforts at bridging that gap may actually stop me from being baptized, however. And more frustrated that many of you seem to be more worried about my denomination than my overall relationship with God.

 

[RoseMary131]

I guess what I’m saying is that I’m currently living (and plan to continue living) as a nondenominational Christian who happens to attend a Catholic church. Given those circumstances, how am I supposed to go about getting baptized? I don’t know how a Methodist minister would feel about baptizing someone who had no intention of attending their church; and it seems like Catholic priests don’t want to do it unless I’m willing to give up my nondenominational status.

Maybe we can help better if we understood your idea on Baptism better so we are all on the same page.

If you don’t mind answering maybe this would be helpful for us to answer your concerns.

Why are you seeking the gift of Baptism?

What does the gift of Baptism mean to you?

What are you asking of the Church with your desire for Baptism?

Have you been to a Baptismal service in the Catholic Church and do you know what all the parts of the Sacrament are for?

Do you know what you would be entering when you accept the gift of Baptism?

Do you have a Sponsor or Godparent to stand with you as you receive this Sacrament?

May the Holy Spirit give you Peace today in your Faith Journey.

 

[McMcMe]

Sounds like you are clear on what you want (to be baptized) and don’t want (to be a Catholic) but you have some misunderstandings about what the sacraments are and what it means to BE a Catholic. You are correct that if one is baptized Catholic, it is strongly encouraged that that person be confirmed prior to marriage. This isn’t because the sacraments are multi-level progression plan like pre-requisites in college where you just get your card punched, but because to be married in the church, one should be a committed member of the faith. That is part of what makes you ready to make the commitment to the vocation of marriage. If you were to commit to the vocation of holy orders or consecrated life, you would have to demonstrate the same. Receiving all the sacraments of initiation is an outward way of demonstrating that fidelity to the faith.

I was baptized as a baby and received first holy communion but never confirmed as a child. I received confirmation as an adult prior to marriage. My husband came into the church as an adult through RCIA and had all three sacraments at Easter Vigil.

it seems like I’d be better off getting baptized as a Methodist…

Depending on your definition of “better;” that’s true if what you want is the most expedient way to be baptized. But if you want is to deepen your relationship to Christ in a meaningful and powerful way, that may not be “better” at all. You can choose to be baptized in another Christian denomination (or non-denomination) but I assure you that they will all want you to see baptism as a starting point to becoming a member of their faith community rather than an endpoint, just like Catholics!

I second the suggestion to attend RCIA as a way to learn more about Christianity and clarify how your beliefs may differ from the Catholic Church. It would help you to understand your boyfriend’s faith more (not to mention what the heck is going on during all these masses you have been attending!), and should you decide not to become Catholic, help you determine what sort of faith community you should join. I think a lot of people see RCIA as something you do once you have already decided to become a Catholic–that’s just not the case. It can also be a great way to just learn, from a trusted source, what Catholicism is really about.

I hope this helps!

 

[jmcrae]

I’m frustrated by the fact that my efforts at bridging that gap may actually stop me from being baptized, however. And more frustrated that many of you seem to be more worried about my denomination than my overall relationship with God.

Your denomination is your relationship with God. Methodists have a different kind of relationship with God than Catholics do, and than Lutherans do, and than Baptists do, and than Hindus and Moslems do, and than Buddhists do, and than Moonies do, and than Mormons do, and than Jehovah’s Witnesses do, etc.

There is no such thing as a “me and Jesus” religion, and you cannot “use” the Church (any Church) to facilitate a “me and Jesus” mentality - it would be a fundamental contradiction in terms for a Church (an “assembly of those called forth”) to facilitate an “I’m not being called to any kind of change, and I don’t need to assemble with anyone in particular” idea of religion.

 

[QuasiCatholic]

Maybe we can help better if we understood your idea on Baptism better so we are all on the same page.

If you don’t mind answering maybe this would be helpful for us to answer your concerns.

Why are you seeking the gift of Baptism?

I come from a Christian family, but I was never particularly observant (other than saying nighttime prayers) and always enjoyed learning about other religions and ways of viewing the world. Attending church regularly and talking about the future with my boyfriend, however, has helped me realize that I am a Christian and that I want to raise my family that way.

What does the gift of Baptism mean to you?

It means that I will be publicly declaring my commitment to God (not to a specific church) and it means that when my boyfriend and I get married it will be considered a sacramental union instead of simply a valid union, which I know is important to him (even if he doesn’t like to admit it)

What are you asking of the Church with your desire for Baptism?

I don’t really know the answer to this …

Have you been to a Baptismal service in the Catholic Church and do you know what all the parts of the Sacrament are for?

Yes.

Do you know what you would be entering when you accept the gift of Baptism?

Baptism is when you accept the Holy Spirit and the grace of God. It clears you of past sins and strengthens your relationship with God.

Do you have a Sponsor or Godparent to stand with you as you receive this Sacrament?

My boyfriend would be my sponsor, or my best friend (who is also Catholic) if they wouldn’t allow my boyfriend to do it.

P.S > Thank you for taking my question seriously and trying to help!

 

[QuasiCatholic]

There is no such thing as a “me and Jesus” religion … it would be a fundamental contradiction in terms for a Church (an “assembly of those called forth”) to facilitate an “I’m not being called to any kind of change, and I don’t need to assemble with anyone in particular” idea of religion.

Matthew 6:5-6 (the lead-in to introducing the Lord’s Prayer):

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

 

[jmcrae]

Matthew 6:5-6 (the lead-in to introducing the Lord’s Prayer):

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

Notice that He taught us to say “Our Father,” not “My Father.”

We encounter God in groups of assembled persons (Churches) and from there, we develop a personal relationship, but our personal relationship with God is never “instead of” our Church membership, or in any way outside of it; rather, it is rooted and grounded in our experience as part of the “assembled and called” - the Church.

Edited to add: I have no idea what Jesus’ commentary about hypocrites standing on street corners has to do with becoming a member of the Church. We don’t see very many Catholics standing on street corners pretending to pray.

 

[McMcMe]

I seemed to have cross posted with you earlier, so my apologies if it seemed as if I wasn’t listening to you! You’ve obviously done quite a bit of independent study and practical observation of what it means to be Catholic and are firm in your objections.

I feel your frustration in your words: both with us on this board and with the way the Catholic Church goes about baptizing adults. It does not make it easy for someone in your position: wanting to be a Christian but not Catholic. It may be possible to find a priest or deacon willing to baptize you but I seriously doubt it as part of the rite of baptism in the Catholic Church includes asking to be received in the Catholic Church and your sponsors vowing to help you grow in your Catholic faith. I just don’t think you are going to get what you want here.

Of course, as a Catholic myself, I would love nothing more than to welcome you into the Catholic faith! I went to mass for many years without agreeing with the teachings of the Church and just muddling through or transposing their words to beliefs I found more acceptable. It was exhausting, so I prayed for faith, and it was granted. I realize that sounds like a lot of anti-intellectual hooey, but that’s just the truth of my experience.

But barring becoming a Catholic, perhaps you would benefit from finding a Christian church community that reflects your own beliefs to be baptized in. You could still attend Mass with your boyfriend but would have a community with whom you could share your walk with Christ.

 

[QuasiCatholic]

I feel your frustration in your words: both with us on this board and with the way the Catholic Church goes about baptizing adults. It does not make it easy for someone in your position: wanting to be a Christian but not Catholic.

Thank you for understanding, McMcMe. I would love to wake up one day and be OK with the idea of being 100% Catholic. It would make a lot of things a lot easier. But I know at the one confirmation rite I attended that the converts had to publicly proclaim that they believed everything the Catholic Church believes – and I don’t think that’s something I could do.

It’s kind of funny, really, because I actually really like our church and the priest there. I just don’t agree with The Church (with a big C)

 

[RoseMary131]

I’m looking on line for the entire Baptismal service.

I thought maybe if you read the entire service it would explain a bit more on Baptism.

Maybe someone else knows where to find this information on the Sacrament of Baptism.

This is a small portion: stisidore-yubacity.org/faqbaptismvows.html

When a person is Baptized in the Catholic Church, it is a bit different than a Baptism in some Christian settings.

The Church, the people, have a role in each person’s Baptism. That’s way a parish will often not Baptize the child of non-practicing Catholics. As a community, we are welcoming the Newly Baptized into our Faith Community and they are joining into our Faith Community.

While some Christians may go to another country and “Save” or “Baptize” the people, then go back home… the Catholic Church does not do this. Baptism is part of a Community.

Baptized Catholics walk the Faith Journey with each other, a sharing in One True Church, One True Faith.

In the Sacrament of Baptism in the Catholic Church, the person makes their Baptismal vows, they are anointed with oil, they are Baptized with water, they put on their Baptismal Garment (usually a white bib for a baby or a white robe for an adult), and they receive their Baptismal Candle. There is meaning in each step.

The newly Baptized person is not only a New Creation, a new Child of God, they become an Official Member of Christ’s Church - the Holy Catholic Church.

Baptism in the Catholic Church is the first Sacrament of Initiation - Initiation into the Church - the Catholic Church.

The other two Sacraments of Initiation are Holy Communion and Confirmation.

For a child, they normally receive Baptism at Birth, their second Sacrament of initiation being Holy Communion around age 7 (2nd grade), and their final Sacrament of Initiation during their Teen Years when they receive the Sacrament of Confirmation.

When a child or an adult comes into the Church later, they normally receive all three Sacraments of Initiation at Once. This is often during the Easter Vigil Mass.

In the Catholic Church when Baptism is offered, it is not just between the person receiving Baptism and God, it is about the Community of Believers - a Common belief - we all walk together.

Baptism is offered as a walk or Sacrament within the Church - not something that can be separated from the beliefs of the Church.

Maybe God is calling you to the Gift of the Sacrament and at the same time leading you to the Church - a specific Church - not a journey alone, but with an entire Community.

May you feel at Peace as you travel this journey. Keep your heart open, even when your mind might be confused.

Please do not be offended that the Sacrament of Initiation, the Sacrament of Baptism is offered to anyone who believes in the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church. Believing in the Trinity is only a part of the Sacrament of Initiation. - Accepting Christ and His Holy Church is necessary before asking the Church for the Sacrament of Baptism.

Peace to you.

 

[RoseMary131]

May God bless you in this amazing walk with your boyfriend in the Church.

You sound like a wonderful girlfriend looking for the best spiritual life for your boyfriend and yourself.

What a blessing you two must be to each other.

 

[QuasiCatholic]

Thank you, RoseMary. He is definitely a blessing to me (Not so sure about the other way around)