Baptism in the Spirit and Contemplation

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I read several St. John’s poems tonight. They are so beautiful.

The Spirit Canticle is a love groaning, reminds me of Song of Songs.

The Dark Night, to my surprise, is everything beautiful and profound, nothing distressful.
It appears to be a glad night! It leaves me an impression of brightness.

The Living Flame of Love is short and sweet, I especially love the ending paragraph.

“How gently and lovingly
you wake in my heart,
where in secret you dwell alone;
and in your sweet breathing,
filled with good and glory,
how tenderly you swell my heart with love.”


It is a good idea to start with his poems. I love them very much so far.
Thanks Dave, for good recommendation. My Bookmarks is getting longer and longer.
 
InLight247

The poems of St. John of the Cross are awesome!

I prefer the works published by ICS, translated by Kieran Kavanaugh OCD.

FYI, ICS publications = Institute of Carmelite Studies. It is run by the Discalced Carmelites.

Jim
 
The poems of St. John of the Cross are awesome!

I prefer the works published by ICS, translated by Kieran Kavanaugh OCD.

FYI, ICS publications = Institute of Carmelite Studies. It is run by the Discalced Carmelites.

Jim
Yes, Jim, thanks.
I see how awesome they are just by savoring a tiny bit of them.
I cannot wait to read more.
But I have to caution my self not to fall into my tendency of devouring good spiritual food lest I should get Indigestion. 😛
 
I read several St. John’s poems tonight. They are so beautiful.

The Spirit Canticle is a love groaning, reminds me of Song of Songs.

That’s his inspiration!

Here’s one tip on the “reverse engineering” I mentioned earlier for when you get to the point to dig into his commentary. Stanzas 13-21 refer to the spiritual betrothal . . . what St. Teresa discusses in dwelling 5 of “Interior Castle.” Stanzas 22-40 refer to the spiritual marriage, aka the transforming union. This is St. Teresa’s 7th dwelling. The transition between the two groups of stanzas, of course, is the night of spirit . . . what John speaks at much greater length about in his commentary of “Ascent” and “Dark Night” and Teresa in the 6th dwelling of “Interior Castle.”

The Dark Night, to my surprise, is everything beautiful and profound, nothing distressful.
It appears to be a glad night! It leaves me an impression of brightness.

See, nothing to fear! 🙂 Be not afraid . . .

It is a good idea to start with his poems. I love them very much so far.
Thanks Dave, for good recommendation.

Glad to hear it!
40.png
JimR-OCDS:
InLight247

The poems of St. John of the Cross are awesome!

I prefer the works published by ICS, translated by Kieran Kavanaugh OCD.

FYI, ICS publications = Institute of Carmelite Studies. It is run by the Discalced Carmelites.
Good to see you again, Jim!

For anyone interested, here’s a link to ICS:

www.icspublications.org

All of St. John’s works can be purchased in a single volume.

Dave.
 
Hi InLight,

I was not too surprised that you found beauty in these poems of St. John, since you are a lovely poet yourself. Such a sensitive heart! That seems to be God’s way of speaking to both you and John. I have little doubt that you will readily absorb his profound teachings. 👍

Since you spend many hours in silent prayer with the Lord, I expect He will lead you to the most perfect food for your soul at the time you most need it. My own feeling is that you will find it easily in Spiritual Canticle, from all that I have read of your progress in prayer.

Hi Dave,

I was greatly edified to read that I have been helpful to you, but as I thought about it, it struck me that your own deep fervor and piety was open to hearing those tidbits. Isn’t it a tribute to the listener that their openness reveals the integrity of their heart? Thank you so much for your vote of confidence.

Re which book to recommend first, I would say it depends on the spiritual age of the reader. If they have read nothing yet, and are earnestly desiring to begin the arduous climb up the mountain to God, then I suggest the Ascent, for John teaches the necessity of bringing our inordinate desires into right order. The latter two sections of the book are really too advanced for a beginner, but I did treasure the section on Joy in Bk. III, which may help someone at any stage.

Dark Night is probably helpful to study the chapters dealing with the spiritual capital vices of “proficients” and to realize that only God can completely deliver us from these through deep purification. Hopefully, the message inspires charity for our neighbor who likewise cannot heal his own imperfections. But the rest of the book, uh-uh. Few would understand it, as we see so often on the internet when some innocent person thinks every form of suffering is their “dark night.”

I read Living Flame rather early in my walk, and instantly realized it was waaaay beyond my readiness. It was truly inspiring, and maybe someone might receive their initial conversion from the magnificence of this poem.

But I agree with your comments many months ago, and would begin with Spiritual Canticle if I were experiencing the longings of love, like the hart thirsting for God. Didn’t St. Therese spend most of her reading from this book after entering Carmel? John is truly a seraphic Doctor! Who could read this and not come alive with new devotion!
 
But I agree with your comments many months ago, and would begin with Spiritual Canticle if I were experiencing the longings of love, like the hart thirsting for God. Didn’t St. Therese spend most of her reading from this book after entering Carmel? John is truly a seraphic Doctor! Who could read this and not come alive with new devotion!
I seem to recall reading from “John & Therese: Living Flames of Love” that St. John was the only source of spiritual nourishment, outside scripture, for St. Therese in the years leading to Carmel and her time while there. And by a very wide margin, “Spiritual Canticle” was the text she quoted most often.

Probably a pretty good recomendation in itself 😃

Dave.
 
Originally by Joysong
I was not too surprised that you found beauty in these poems of St. John, since you are a lovely poet yourself. Such a sensitive heart! That seems to be God’s way of speaking to both you and John. I have little doubt that you will readily absorb his profound teachings.
Thanks for your encouragement.
I have never linked “poet” with myself. It almost made me laugh. Seriously.
Before the vision came to me as I wrote in the first poem, I have never written any. I didn’t know I could write any. I am surprised I have written so many. But I do know what I have written so far are from God. It is simply His inspiration. All the credits belong to Him.
Originally by Joysong
Since you spend many hours in silent prayer with the Lord, I expect He will lead you to the most perfect food for your soul at the time you most need it. My own feeling is that you will find it easily in Spiritual Canticle, from all that I have read of your progress in prayer.
Originally by DBT
I seem to recall reading from “John & Therese: Living Flames of Love” that St. John was the only source of spiritual nourishment, outside scripture, for St. Therese in the years leading to Carmel and her time while there. And by a very wide margin, “Spiritual Canticle” was the text she quoted most often.
Probably a pretty good recomendation in itself
Thanks, along with the poems, Spiritual Canticle it is then.
 
Here’s another must have item to put on your Christmas list.

If you want to hear some of the poems of St. John of the Cross put to music, John Michael Talbot does it best.

“The Lover and The Beloved,” is absolutely beautiful!

johnmichaeltalbot.com/Albums/index.asp?id=53

In Carmel
Jim
 
In Light,

We have had a delightful shopping spree! I ordered yesterday, Prison to Praise, and Power in Praise. 😃 They are already shipped.

Jim,

John Michael is wonderfully inspiring. I tried to listen to the audio in your link, but the file is missing, they say. I guess that means I’ll have to order that, too. 😛

Carole
 
Tonight I re-read “Fire Within” from p. 161 - 167 about Night of Sense. Even with so many yellow and green highlights, and written notes on the margin, I didn’t remember them when I raised my question the other day.

I find my own own pencil note said:
“Sounds like I have passed this stage without realizing the night of sense. Is this possible?”

So Dave and Joysong, you are right with your assessment that according to what I wrote, I “know” about night of sense. I just didn’t know I know. And now I Just want to let you know I know. 😃
 
I am new here, and have for over the last two hours or so been reading this thread with interest, and am still not done, but thought if I was going to say anything I’d better do it now as it’s getting way past my bedtime.

Briefly, I am a secular Carmelite and am happy to see that there are other fellow-OCDS members here. I am also a product of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, first having gotten involved in the early seventies, not very long after its inception. However, I have long since not been actively involved in the movement for reasons I will not get into now. Let me just say that my long Christian pilgrimage has eventually led me into the Carmelite Order.

Due to my own life’s experiences at a certain stage, I began reading The Collected Works of St John of the Cross. Oddly, or perhaps not so oddly, I had little difficulty in understanding him. He served as a spiritual director, as it were, for me during a time of great trial in my life. His writings clarified a lot of what I was then experiencing first-hand. They reassured me that I wasn’t simply going insane. They made sense of the seemingly senseless things that were befalling me, and helped me come to terms with them even as I was experiencing them. It was not long after I had largely finished reading his works for the first time that I entered the order which he co-founded.

I realize that lots of people are intimidated by St John of the Cross, including many Carmelites, as someone else mentioned. Let me recommend a book by Iain Matthew, a Discalced Carmelite priest, called “The Impact of God” subtitled “Soundings from St John of the Cross” which may serve as a useful guide to anyone interested in getting past their apprehensions about reading St John’s works. It is published by Hodder & Stoughton, London, 1995 and may be out of print, but a determined search on the internet may yield some used copies.

And to those who may have little or no use for contemplative prayer, these words from the Mystical Doctor may help them to reconsider:

"You will not take from me, my God, what you once gave me in your only Son, Jesus Christ, in whom you gave me all I desire. Hence I rejoice that if I wait for you, you will not delay.

"With what procrastinations do you wait, since from this very moment you can love God in your heart?

“Mine are the heavens and mine is the earth. Mine are the nations, the just are mine, and mine the sinners. The angels are mine, and the Mother of God, and all things are mine; and God himself is mine and for me, because Christ is mine and all for me. What do you ask, then, and seek, my soul? Yours is all of this, and all is for you. Do not engage yourself in something less or pay heed to the crumbs that fall from your Father’s table. Go forth and exult in your Glory! Hide yourself in it and rejoice, and you will obtain the supplications of your heart.”
Code:
Not content with crumbs,

Gabrielis, OCDS
 
Mine are the heavens and mine is the earth. Mine are the nations, the just are mine, and mine the sinners. The angels are mine, and the Mother of God, and all things are mine; and God himself is mine and for me, because Christ is mine and all for me. What do you ask, then, and seek, my soul?
Welcome among family Gabrielis! As I read your words from St. John of the Cross, the thought of the Father’s words to the elder brother came to mind from the parable of the Prodigal Son.

But he said to him: Son, thou art always with me, and all I have is thine.
Lk. 15:31

How true it is, in Christ Jesus. Thanks for sharing your insights with us, and come back soon.

Carole
 
Hi InLight,
So Dave and Joysong, you are right with your assessment that according to what I wrote, I “know” about night of sense. I just didn’t know I know. And now I Just want to let you know I know.
Ahh! Lightbulb moment! :newidea: Isn’t it great to recognize what you know you knew? 😃

I don’t have Fire Within, but I trust you are in good hands with Fr. Dubay.
 
Gabrielis, welcome on board and thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Though I am not a Carmelite, I have been helped much by the writings of Carmelite Saints and Carmelite friends here on CAF. It is good to have a Carmelite join discussion.
 
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