Baptism in the Spirit and Contemplation

  • Thread starter Thread starter InLight247
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
He served as a spiritual director, as it were, for me during a time of great trial in my life. His writings clarified a lot of what I was then experiencing first-hand. They reassured me that I wasn’t simply going insane. They made sense of the seemingly senseless things that were befalling me, and helped me come to terms with them even as I was experiencing them.
Hi Gabrielis and welcome! 🙂

Many wise words in your post but these in particular stood out. Isn’t this the experience for so many of us? 👍

I’m still a newbie in Carmel having just made first promises. During my interview with the council leading up to this one of the things they asked me was, “What would you be doing now if you weren’t part of the secular order and had no knowledge of the writings of the Saints?” My response was that I fear I probably would have drifted away from all the work God was doing in my soul thinking it just an illusion. Somehow the Richard Dreyfuss character from “Close Encounters of a Third Kind” came to mind. :o

I can’t tell you how important St. John, St. Teresa, St. Therese, Bl. Elizabeth, Br. Lawrence et. al. have been to me as well as getting to know other like minded people in secular community and here on these forums!

Dave

PS - Inlight, I second what Joysong says! 😃
 
Gabrielis,
welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing!

In Carmel 🙂
Jim OCDS
 
On my way to work this morning, I was reflecting how interesting the way God has been leading me. (And what a busy work day today is!)

I was baptized in college. For all four years, I developed my faith under bunch of Jesuit priests’ guidance. After I came to States, I was alone on my faith journey for many years. During that extra long period, I was like an island with no one to discuss deeper faith matter. I totally relied on books, tapes, TV programs and constant prayers for my spiritual growth. I read a lot, and quite a few of my readings are from Protestant writers. Then I was blessed with a spiritual director who used to be a Benedictine monk and now my parish pastor. The formation of my faith journey so far surely includes interesting combinations. But that’s the way it is, they are all from God. All different approaches put together led me to be who I am.

As I get into more writings of Carmelite Saints, I realize my love sick “symptoms” are so much in line with Carmelite spirituality. I find Carmelite spirituality so attractive.(Little Flower is my favorite Saint.)

Though I am a free bird and not belong to any order, I do agree with your saying of the “in spirit” part.🙂
 
Originally by Gabrielis
Due to my own life’s experiences at a certain stage, I began reading The Collected Works of St John of the Cross. Oddly, or perhaps not so oddly, I had little difficulty in understanding him. He served as a spiritual director, as it were, for me during a time of great trial in my life. His writings clarified a lot of what I was then experiencing first-hand. They reassured me that I wasn’t simply going insane.
Originally by DBT
During my interview with the council leading up to this one of the things they asked me was, “What would you be doing now if you weren’t part of the secular order and had no knowledge of the writings of the Saints?” My response was that I fear I probably would have drifted away from all the work God was doing in my soul thinking it just an illusion.
How I can relate to the above two quotes!

Before joining CAF, I had little exposure to Carmelite Spirituality, though I have read St. Therese, and her little way is my all time appreciation.

I have heard about the seven mansions of St. Teresa but I have never really read them. When I learned about Fr. Dubay’s “Fire Within” on CAF spirituality forum, I quickly bought it.

I remember when I read Fr. Dubay’s teaching on the two Saints (Teresa and John) and saw how the explanations of the prayer state fully described myself, I was so excited and had hard time to fall into sleep at night. I literally had to put the book down for couple weeks so I may sleep and engage in my daily life.

Had I not read it and understood I was not insane, had I not learned that all I have experienced was actually normal, where would I be? I would be very miserable for sure.
Many thanks to you guys, really. God is so good. I feel so blessed.
 
Thanks to everyone for their kind words of welcome.

InLight, since you are so attuned to Carmelite spirituality perhaps you ought to look into formalizing things by considering entering a chapter of the OCDS. Discussions on the internet are fine as far as they go, but our spiritual life is meant also to be lived in community, and although there is a certain measure of that even in cyberspace, it would be better to actually belong to a group of like-minded people whose bodies are present along with their spirits, where one can undergo proper formation, discuss things with others face to face, worship and learn together, and yes, teach each other. It is good discipline, if nothing else.

The Carmelite vocation is not for everyone, but if one is called to it, as with any other vocation, the wise thing to do would be to heed the call. It’s something to consider, anyway, but there is only one way to discover whether it is for you, and that is to check it out. Just a suggestion.
Code:
"The center of every man's existence is a dream. Death, disease, insanity, are merely material accidents, like a toothache or a twisted ankle. That these brutal forces always besiege and often capture the citadel does not prove that they are the citadel."
 
-- G. K. Chesterton
 
Gabrielis, thank you for your thoughtful suggestion. Joining in a third order and make the private vow is a serious call and commitment. It has to come from God. I agree what you said that it is good to have like-minded physical bodies around to interact, fellowship and learn from each other. For one who is fascinated by Carmelite spirituality, it is definitely helpful to have guidance from experienced Carmelites.

I also believe the state and stage of prayers described by Carmelite Saints is universal no matter what order the person belongs to or not belongs to. For the time being I don’t feel the call to join a third order. I don’t know how to explain this, but somehow I am very clear now is not the time. I just have to follow God’s lead, and God always leads.
 
I also believe the state and stage of prayers described by Carmelite Saints is universal no matter what order the person belongs to or not belongs to. For the time being I don’t feel the call to join a third order. I don’t know how to explain this, but somehow I am very clear now is not the time. I just have to follow God’s lead, and God always leads.

Hi InLight,

I understand. We’re each led by a different path, each of us is unique, and certainly Carmelite spirituality is available to all who are drawn to it, without their having to become Carmelites themselves. There is a richness to our Catholic heritage that is wider than any particular order, devotion or saint’s teachings. Which is the beauty of our Faith–that there is always more. Next to our God we are always beginning, always beginners on our journey, no matter how far we may think we have come. The tragedy is when anyone thinks he or she has “arrived” because they then think there isn’t any more, or have reached their “comfort zone” and content themselves with the stage they have reached, and so rob themselves of the continuing journey. I have seen this happen so often. We limit God, make Him too small, Someone we think we can understand fully. But a god we can fully understand becomes an idol, bearing little or no resemblance to the God Who Is, who shall always be Mystery, and must remain so to mere creatures. For those who embrace this mystery, however, there will be no end to Joy, for there shall always be more to discover about this ineffable God of ours, ever more to love, to fall in love with, as He continues to reveal Himself to us, and isn’t this what Heaven is?

In Christ,

Gabrielis
 
The tragedy is when anyone thinks he or she has “arrived” because they then think there isn’t any more, or have reached their “comfort zone” and content themselves with the stage they have reached, and so rob themselves of the continuing journey.
That is so true, what good words of wisdom and reminder!

Like you said, we are always beginners on our journey. Actually I was just thinking about “old” and “new’ the other day. On our life’s journey, we constantly say goodbye to the old and say hi to the new. When one graduates from high school as a senior, he becomes freshman in college. He is new. When he graduates from college and enters the work place, he is new again. When he leaves his single life and becomes a newly wed, he is new. Whenever a person steps into a different stage of life, he is new. We are always learning, always growing. We can always keep a new spirit. This is also true on our faith journey.

Let me share with you part of a prayer that I like very much:
Lord, I believe in you; increase my faith.
I trust in you, strengthen my trust.
I love you, let me love you more and more.
I am sorry for my sin, deepen my sorrow.
I worship you as my first beginning.
I long for you as my last end.
I praise you as my constant helper.
And I call you as my loving protector.
Guide me by your wisdom.
Correct me with your justice.
Comfort me with your mercy.
Protect me with your power.
I offer you, Lord, my thoughts, to be fixed on you;
my words to have you for their theme;
my actions to reflect my love for you;
my sufferings to be endured for your greater glory.
I want to do what you ask of me,
in the way you ask,
for as long as you ask,
because you ask it.
Lord, enlighten my understanding,
strengthen my will,
purify my heart, and make me holy.
Help me to repent of my past sins,
and to resist temptation in the future.
Help me to rise above my human weakness,
and to grow stronger as a Christian.
Let me love you, my Lord and my God.
And see myself as I really am:
a pilgrim in this world,
a Christian called to respect,
and love all whose lives I touch.
Those under my authority,
my friends and my enemies.
Help me to conquer anger with gentleness,
greed by generosity,
apathy by fervor.
Help me be prudent in planning,
courageous in taking risks,
make me patient in suffering,
unassuming in prosperity.
…………………………
You see all the above and more, continue to be my daily efforts.
I understand my progress, if any, needs to be refined again and again.
It is an endless effort of picking up crosses and trials to follow Jesus. One can never learn well enough about dying to self and live in Christ. Thank God that he constantly makes everything new. In His newness, my learning never ends. God bless!
 
I hope you all had a good Christmas!

I am on the 6th chapter of book 1 in “The Ascent of Mount Carmel”, there is a long way to go. My question may or may not be answered as the reading goes down the road.
But I want to ask couple questions if anyone will kindly answer.

So far all St. John said make sense. I fully agree that in order to have union with the pure God, one has to give his 100%. A total renunciation is needed.

My first question is this:
Though each of us has the crucial spiritual part in our soul, we are created as human and flesh. Asking a flesh to empty himself 100% for union with the pure Spirit, there is a basic variation in substance. Yes, Jesus was Word made flesh. But He is the Son of God.
Though confined in flesh, he has that 100% godly substance in Him. We are to follow Jesus, but asking a flesh to mortify himself to the degree of a non-flesh is hard. Now I can see more reasons of the necessity of purgatory.

My second question is this:
When St. John talks about 100% detachment, does it include becoming psychologically indifferent to our own children? I hope not. As far as I remember what St. Teresa talked about detachment, it did not seem so. Can someone share the learned understanding on this detachment?

As a mother, I am called to love and care for my children. I have to constantly pray for them, plead to God for their well being. I could never develop the heroic indifference to my own children.

I appreciate any of your help in advance.
 
Hi Inlight -

I’m in a bit of a rush at the moment but regarding Question 2, why don’t you take a peek at “Fire Within,” Chapter 8 - The Freedom of Detachment. This is a very good overview of St. John’s teaching in “The Ascent.” Fr. Dubay specifically describes what ‘is’ and ‘is not’ attachment and should put your mind at ease . . .

Dave 🙂
 
Thanks, Dave.

When I re-read Chapter 8, I find yellow and green highlights all over the pages, along with my own notes on the margins. That proves how forgetful I am.
An incorrect fear must have stayed in my mind that leads me fall back to the puzzlement.
It is good to be reminded what attachment is NOT, so I may ease my mind.

Thanks again.
 
My first question is this:
Though each of us has the crucial spiritual part in our soul, we are created as human and flesh. Asking a flesh to empty himself 100% for union with the pure Spirit, there is a basic variation in substance. Yes, Jesus was Word made flesh. But He is the Son of God.
Though confined in flesh, he has that 100% godly substance in Him. We are to follow Jesus, but asking a flesh to mortify himself to the degree of a non-flesh is hard. Now I can see more reasons of the necessity of purgatory.
I might be completely missing the question you’re asking, but more and more I’m seeing the concept of “emptying self” in the context of thoughts . . . all those times our minds are spent wasted on trivial and non-important matters compared to love of God and neighbor. Seen in this light, our separation from Christ is truly pervasive.

Since you’re reading “The Ascent,” Book 3 chapters 1-15 were crucial for me to seeing this. Now I can’t hardly read my favorite Catholic classics without seeing separation from Christ and emptying self through the prism of our thoughts. This has been discussed many times on this forum as active recollection and/or the prayer of simplicity.

This was such a profound matter for me that I even made my own prayer card of quotes to reinforce this concept to me. Your reference to purgatory is right on . . . for emptying self in this manner is, imo, the essence of the “dark nights.”
DBT's Breviary Prayer Card:
SILENCE TO SELF
Night: Silence as sacrifice, Self as Cross


**St John of the Cross **– As often as distinct ideas, forms and images occur to them, they should immediately, without resting in them, turn to God in loving affection, in emptiness of everything rememberable. They should not look or think on these things for longer than is sufficient.

**St. Bonaventure **– Let us impose silence upon our cares, desires and imaginings.

The Cloud of Unknowing
  • My purpose is to impress on you the importance of weighing your thoughts and desires as they arise; you must learn to reject the least of them that you might not sin.
  • Then why is this work so toilsome? The labor, or course, is in the unrelenting struggle to banish the countless distracting thoughts that plague our minds and to restrain them beneath the cloud of forgetting.
  • When distracting thoughts annoy you try to pretend that you do not even notice their presence.
  • Contemplatives rarely pray in words but if they do, their words are few.
  • You must come to loathe and regret everything that occupies your mind except God, for everything is an obstacle between you and Him.
  • See that nothing remains in you conscious mind save a naked intent stretching out toward God.
  • This simple work is not a rival to your daily activities. For with your attention centered on the blind awareness of your naked being united to God’s, you will go about your daily rounds, eating and drinking, sleeping and waking, going and coming, speaking and listening, lying down and rising up, standing and kneeling, running and riding, working and resting.
Brother Lawrence
  • I carefully apply myself to avoid doing, saying or thinking anything that might displease Him.
  • I keep myself recollected in Him in the depth and center of my soul as much as possible.
  • The mind is extremely flighty, but the will, mistress of all our powers, must take hold of it and bring it back to God as to its final end.
  • If your mind wanders or withdraws occasionally, don’t get upset.
  • An easy way to keep the mind from wandering during the time of mental prayer is to keep it as still as possible – not to let it take flight – during the day. Do not leave Him alone.
  • I was faithful to this practice during my activities as I was during my periods of mental prayer, for at every moment, all the time, in the most intense periods of my work I banished and rid from my mind everything that was capable of taking the thought of God away from me.
  • Thoughts spoil everything; that’s how trouble starts! We must be careful to reject them as soon as we notice that they have nothing to do with our present occupation or salvation, and begin again our conversation with God, which is where our good is found.
  • He reached the point where his thoughts were exclusively of God. In his struggle against temptation, he could sense the temptation from the first moment. He sometimes allowed the temptations to advance, but at just the right moment he called upon God, and they vanished completely. Similarly, when he had some matter to take care of, he never thought about it in advance, but within the necessary time period he found in God, as in a clear mirror, what he needed at the present moment.
To be continued . . .
 
More From DBT's Breviary Prayer Card:
Abandonment to Divine Providence
  • We must stop all imaginings about the future, keep our attention on what is happening now and not bother about anything that has gone before or what may follow.
  • In that state they surrender to God all their rights over themselves, over their thoughts, their words, their actions and the use they make of every moment. They have only one duty: to keep their gaze fixed on their Master, listening intently to His wishes.
  • Their hearts tell them what God desires. They have only to listen to the promptings of their hearts to interpret His will in the existing circumstances. God’s plans, disguised as they are, reveal themselves to us through our intuition rather than reason.
  • The soul gradually falls into the habit of acting always by an instinctive following of God’s wishes. Such a soul realizes that it can do nothing better than to deal with whatever first crops up with out all the careful thought it formerly used to need.
Hope this helps . . .
Dave 🙂
 
Many thanks, Dave. I read your prayer card back and forth several times.
These are great quotes to keep, all emphasizing same points:
  • Give our total abandonment to Divine Providence – thoughts, words, actions and will
  • Always desire God’s will and God’s will only
  • Constantly focusing our mind and thoughts on God
  • Not dwell on any thoughts unrelated to God
  • When distractions come in prayer, gently brush them off
  • The importance of mental prayer, and prayer of simplicity
Like you said, they are very profound matters. These are also my continual efforts.

Reading St. John, I realize in order to reach the union with God, the demand is extremely high. A question of how reasonable is such high demand came to mind - Why are we created as both flesh and spirit but required to kill the flesh and become 100% pure in spirit? Is such requirement reasonable?

But your response reminded me that since we all eventually have to go home with God, who is the Pure Spirit, we have no choice but to crucify our flesh, purify our spirit, so we may be with Him. That’s the way God designs, that’s the way it goes.
My original rebellious thoughts thus died down.

I am still trying to understand “dark nights”. But I take your word for it, that it has lot to do with emptying self.

Your (name removed by moderator)ut always helps. For this one, your prayer card helps me recall of what I have been practicing, and takes away my “why”, put me back to the track of obedience. Thanks.
 
This has really turned into an awesome thread. Thank you so much.

I’ve only just recently realized (not of my own, of course) that prayer is so important… and it’s very heartening to see so many people here ascending the mountain. 🙂 Especially since I’m standing at the mountain’s roots right now.
40.png
InLight247:
When I re-read Chapter 8, I find yellow and green highlights all over the pages, along with my own notes on the margins. That proves how forgetful I am.
An incorrect fear must have stayed in my mind that leads me fall back to the puzzlement.
It is good to be reminded what attachment is NOT, so I may ease my mind.
So very true (about not remembering parts of books)! I read Dubay’s book the first time a little while ago (perhaps after Christmas last year?). But I was totally unprepared for it-- I didn’t really set aside personal time for prayer, and the hard road of the gospel is very intimidating. Because of that, much of the book, I think, was lost on me. After I read it, I read a bunch more books on prayer (and more importantly, started praying), including the first two books of St. John’s Ascent of Mount Carmel. I had lent Dubay’s book out to a friend, and I just got it back the other day. I just reread many portions of it, and I’m finding that I missed so much. It’s a blessing that I got it back, because it’s reminding me of how much must still be done on my part if I want to ascend the mountain of the Lord… I still have to increase in virtue so much. But at least I now know, generally, what I have to do, and that I have to do it-- with an added bonus that I have a desire to do it. I think I missed much of it because I was unprepared for it-- like Jesus says in parable about people listening but not hearing, so it is for those of us who hear the gospel but aren’t prepared to follow it.

Again, thanks for all this discussion. It helps a lot to see people who have done this. It makes taking the first steps a bit easier. (Not that the saints aren’t better exemplars… but they’re so far ahead that it’s hard to identify sometimes). I’ll keep following if I can. 🙂

-Rob
 
I am still trying to understand “dark nights”.
Maybe it would be helpful to parse St. John’s meaning of “dark” or “night.” Keep in mind there are two nights (sense and spirit) with two aspects (the active and the passive).

The active nights pertain in large part to the things “we” do, under God’s grace, toward the purification effort. This means mortification, self-denial and asceticism in our thoughts, words and actions. The very act of denying/emptying self is “dark” or a “night” because it goes so against our natural inclinations. Simply put, it is hard to do and requires strong and persistant acts of virtue to break away from self to ultimately be born into the “new man.” This night is what “The Ascent” primarily addresses.

The passive nights refer to contemplation, or the purifing work “God” does in us. Contemplation is “dark” or a “night” because in this prayer there are no images, forms, words or ideas. We don’t “do” anything with our natural senses (seeing, feeling, heaing etc) . . . we simply recieve a loving inflow from God that is at a level of conciousness beyond what our faculties (memory, intellect, will) can perceive.

In her earlier works, St. Teresa spoke of contemplation as “spiritual sleep.” So too did the author of “The Cloud of Unknowing” among others. If we think of sleep on a natural level, I think those who’ve yet to experience contemplation might be able to grasp in some sense why St. John refers to this prayer as “dark.”

These are just two, brief descriptions based on my own understanding . . . I’m sure others could certainly add more ways to describe St. John’s meaning of “dark” and “night.” 🙂

Dave.
 
InLight said:

Why are we created as both flesh and spirit but required to kill the flesh and become 100% pure in spirit? Is such requirement reasonable?

I’m not sure exactly what you are saying here, but it sounds as though you may be suggesting that we must somehow become 100% spirit at the expense of our bodies. If this is so, and please correct me if I am wrong, then you may be running the danger of looking at what is material, or fleshly, or bodily, as “bad,” and pure spirit as “good.” To be pure in spirt is not the same thing as to be pure spirit. We are indeed created as body and spirit, and as St Paul says, “The body is made for the Lord” not to mention that Jesus rose from the dead, body and soul, and so shall we, in the resurection on the last day.

It may perhaps help to distinguish the “flesh” (in the sense that it is used in Scripture and by the mystics) from the body. That particular meaning of the flesh is indeed something we should “kill,” for the flesh in the biblical sense is our fallen nature, the inclination in all of us toward sin, our tendency to follow our own wills instead of God’s, which is what we inherited from our first parents in what is known as original sin. We all have this tendency, and this is what must be killed in us in order for the new man (or woman) to emerge. And what emerges for those who have managed to undergo this stage is still a human being, body and spirit, but one transformed, restored to the image and likeness of God, as far as that is attainable in this life.

The whole idea behind the contemplative way is to try to achieve this goal. The writings of St Teresa of Jesus (Avila), St John of the Cross and all the other mystics address this same issue, whether they call it an Interior Castle with seven dwelling places or the Ascent of Mt Carmel with its “nada, nada, nada, nada,” its denial of all the pleasures and even joys that can be had from the material or even the spiritual order so as to get to the innermost dwelling place or the summit of the mount, which is union with God. This denial is not something done for its own sake, not some grueling exercise with a sort of masochistic or stoical purpose. Behind this self-denial, or detachment, is one thing, and one thing only: the love of God for His own sake, for Himself, and not for all the things that He can (and often does) give us, not for the joys, not even the spiritual joys, that come from Him. If those “favors” come, fine, as these very saints tell us, for they were no strangers to these mystical favors, but we are not to seek them. Many people do not understand this: they actually seek these experiences for their own sakes. But by so doing they stop short of the Giver in favor of His gifts. And loving God for His own sake is something that can be done without a single mystical experience. Again, if the experiences come, fine, but St John of the Cross advises us to pay them little or no heed. This has the added benefit of relieving us of the trouble of trying to discern where the experience is coming from, whether it is a genuine locution or vision from God, or whether it comes from our own imaginations or from the devil.

But to return to the main track, the killing of the flesh you mention, if the flesh is taken to mean our false selves, our fallen selves, then this is exactly what we must do. It is in fact what Jesus said time and again with such words as “he that would save his life will lose it, and he that would lose it for my sake will save it to eternal life”–this “life” we must lose for Jesus sake is precisely the “flesh,” the egocentric false personalities we have made ourselves to be. It is the seed that must fall to the ground and die so that it does not remain a single grain but produces a rich harvest. And ultimately it is something that we cannot do on our own. But the good news is that we can do something in order that this can be done unto us: we can predispose ourselves to receive this gift. And that is precisely what St John of the Cross attempts to instruct us to do. In his writings, and those of St Teresa and others, we find a roadmap to this goal. They instruct us as to how to get to the point of surrender, and yes, it is a purgation which eventually must arrive at a death, the death to self, at which point the soul can do nothing more, nothing more, that is, except die, and this is, of course, a painful experience, the dark night. The process is really quite simple, but it is not easy: it means letting go, relinquishing control of our own lives, and truly surrendering ourselves unconditionally to God. For those who are determined to reach this point though the reward is beyond anything they could ask or imagine. God knows when a soul is ready, and when that soul is, it is He Himself who will lift her to the summit.
 
I was reading in II Corinthinthians this week and noticed with surprise St. Paul’s same words that I have come to cherish in our Eucharistic Prayer IV, “And Christ died for all; that they also who live, may not now live for themselves, but for him.”

E.P. IV:
And so that we may live no longer for ourselves but for him, he sent the Holy Spirit from you, Father, as his first gift to those who believe, to complete his work on earth and bring us the fullness of grace.

These capsulized words I have often reflected on, and find they are the essence of our goal. Dispossessing ourselves of self in order to live for HIM, is a difficult work, and one that each of us struggles with due to our inherited concupiscence.

The preface to this EP states: Source of life and goodness, you have created all things to fill your creatures with every blessing and lead all men to the joyful vision of your light. Nothing God made for our use is inherently evil, but our excessive desires for the wrong use of created goods is what we need to mortify.

Some of you may remember that St. Therese had reached this goal rather quickly, but there was one remaining ‘desire’ that she clung to: heaven. And that was the pain of her dark night, for God removed even that last desire from her and she could no longer find joy in thinking about heaven.

In Hind’s Feet on High Places, there was a similar strong desire in Much-Afraid, as she clung to the Shepherd’s promise of reaching the ‘high places.’ Yes, you guessed it, He led her to lay down into death that very promise in order to mortify the last vestige of desire from her. After that final sacrifice was made, she was ready for transforming union.

I learn from these examples, that God will have us belong to Him in utter purity of heart.
 
I’m a lightweight when it comes to applying words to experience’s, so please bear with me. It took me two years and a Preist as a SD to finally tell me about an experience that was what I considered a “conversion experience”. He refered to it as an “illumination of conscience” and it was instantly followed by a “consolation” as soon as I called out to God. If their is a Baptism by fire, then that was it. The illumination was so spiritually painful, I could not take it anymore. It was like God had left me in my sins, I could barely remember Him in the chaos. My soul reacted when it called out to Him and He came so quickly and with such a power of love, it was like being purged instantly and filled with love. Within seconds I had visions, understanding of the nature of love, my vocation, answers to things that had been on my mind, but also from the illumination I learned the nature of sin and how it works like a spreading disease, a blinding wet blanket that covers the earth. Mind you, I was not religous when this happened, I just believed in God. As a result I am now practicing and still trying to learn about this. Within a minutes time, I went through an illumination, purgative and union like a whirlwind. I can’t imagine anything that could bring me closer to God. Where does contemplation fit in here, if at all and is it of benefit now after this union by intervention? Thanks, Tim
 
As for dieing to self, there is not much of me left after nearly dieing of cancer four years ago. If anything, I’m trying to find myself again so I can at least operate in the world I no longer feel apart of. I am just bluffing my way through this world, with barely any interest in it any more at this time. I am consumed with the Lord, because when I get involved in the world, I sin. So I don’t what to have much to do with it anymore. This place is like a prison to me. Tim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top