Baptism in the Spirit and Contemplation

[GemmaRose]

Thanks everyone for your wonderful sharing and welcoming posts!


InLight - I did start to read The Fire Within, but didn’t finish it, and it’s home, so I’ll have to wait to go back to it. Since Fr. Dubay is my favorite author, I’ve just received two of his books which I haven’t read and which I purchased online. Now I just have to decide which to start first!

Joysong - No, I’m still in the nursing home trying to rehab back to walking. Several other health problems have resolved, except for the very severe arthritis. I’m on new meds which help a little with the pain, but nothing takes all the pain away. So, “Pain” has now become my constant, though unwanted, companion. (And you are right… *Mountains of Spices *is good - but nothing is like Hinds Feet !)

Gabrielis - It’s such a wonderful thing… to communicate with others who can understand these things. You are so right in saying that most Christians can’t even understand. I once had a friend, a true spiritual sister; we were on the same wavelength spiritually, and we could share anything with each other. Since she has passed on to the Lord, it’s so difficult to have good friends, good Catholic Christian friends, but who can only barely understand. I feel such a void since my good friend died, but it helps to have all of you who can identify with such feelings and not think I should be shipped off to a psychiatrist!

Being a songwriter and liturgical/contemporary Christian musician, I find music to be one of the things which is a really big help when it seems that I absolutely cannot seem to pray. One of my favorite songs is called “As a Deer”, and I’d like to quote the words here:

:harp:​

As the deer panteth for the water so my soul longeth after Thee.
You alone are my heart’s desire and I long to worship Thee.

You alone are my strength, my shield,
To you alone may my spirit yield.
You alone are my heart’s desire and I long to worship Thee.

You’re my friend and you are my brother even though You are a king.
I love you more than any other, so much more than anything.

You alone are my strength, my shield,
To you alone may my spirit yield.
You alone are my heart’s desire and I long to worship Thee.

I want you more than gold or silver, only You can satisfy.
You alone are the real joy giver and the apple of my eye.

You alone are my strength my shield.
To you alone may my spirit yield.
You alone are my heart’s desire and I long to worship Thee.
(I’m not sure who sings this song, but is a woman with the voice of an angel. I have it on the *Ultimate Worship *CD.))

It’s so difficult for people to believe that one could want the Lord “more than gold or silver”. Although I wouldn’t mind winning a lottery (a large lottery!), and of course hope to be able to walk again, these things mean absolutely nothing to me in comparison to how I long for God.

God bless all of you for being so open and sharing and understanding… and for loving my Beloved as much as you do.

*“I wish that my heart could beat, that I could live and breathe only for Jesus, I wish that my tongue could utter no other name than that of Jesus; that my eye could see only Jesus; that my pen could write only about Jesus, and that my thoughts could soar to nothing but Jesus. I have often wondered where on earth there might be something on which I could center my love. But neither on earth nor in heaven do I find any such thing but only my beloved Jesus… I am the fruit of your passion, Jesus, born of your wounds. O Jesus, seek me in love; I no longer possess anything; you have stolen my heart…” *- St. Gemma Galgani

 

[TOP]

Sadly, I have been “shipped off to a psychiatrist”. I am in a place only the Lord and I can understand. It is fragile, but I have that first love. Tim

 

[GemmaRose]

Dear Tim,

I’m so sorry… I hope you know that I didn’t mean “shipped off…” in any sort of a derogatory way. Psychiatrists are doctors, and as such there’s no difference when someone might benefit from a psychiatrist’s help as one with a heart condition would need help from a cardiologist.

I just meant that it’s so difficult for so many people to understand deep spiritual things – they either think you’re crazy and need help or that you’re trying to make yourself out to be a saint or something.

No matter what’s going in around you, or any of us, let’s thank Him that He is with us, and that He does understand, and that He is the best Physician when we need healing, the best of Friends when we need understanding, and the only One who will unconditionally love us no matter what our circumstances in life.

God bless.

“I wish that my heart could beat, that I could live and breathe only for Jesus, I wish that my tongue could utter no other name than that of Jesus; that my eye could see only Jesus; that my pen could write only about Jesus, and that my thoughts could soar to nothing but Jesus. I have often wondered where on earth there might be something on which I could center my love. But neither on earth nor in heaven do I find any such thing but only my beloved Jesus… I am the fruit of your passion, Jesus, born of your wounds. O Jesus, seek me in love; I no longer possess anything; you have stolen my heart…” - St. Gemma Galgani

 

[InLight247]

Rose, I pray for your speedy recovery.
The other day a Protestant friends who used to have arthritis said after her last cortisone shot, her arthritis has never come back. She testified for God’s healing.
Another friend (a non-believer) said her Catholic mother who lives in China has been coughing severely for long time. Her mother prayed during the Christmas Eve Mass and her cough just disappeared like that. BTW, she said in China there is no church in small towns. People travel to larger city days ahead to wait for the Christmas Eve Mass. They sleep on the cold ground at night. This friend’s mother who lives near by the church purchased ten sets of comforters and pillows for those pilgrims. God must reward her charity and grant her the miraculous healing. I was encouraged after hearing these two incidents. So keep on asking for your own healing. By His stripes we are healed. Same to you Tim. Never get discouraged.

I understand what you have said about longing for the Lord and not being afraid of death.
I am not that detached as to long for death now, but I always want directly go to heaven when my time comes. The thought of staying in purgatory after the longing and exile of this life literally made me cry. But reading St. John makes me wonder if my hope and expectation of directly going to heaven is realistic? I am only on Book Two of “The Ascent of Mount Carmel”.

However, realistic or not, that is still my goal.

 

[GemmaRose]

Even if I didn’t have adverse reactions to cortisone, my arthritis is way past that stage. I still expect to be healed, though. I just feel deep inside of me that He has work for me yet to do. I have so very many people praying for me. I just wish that His time corresponded more to our time. I say to Him, “Lord, I know that to You, time has no meaning. Still, could You please hurry up with healing? After all, it would all be to Your glory since the x-rays can prove how bad the arthritis is now!”

It’s so uplifting to hear about people’s faith in places of persecution. How sad that here in the USA where anyone can freely practice their religion, that so many choose to ignore God completely.

InLight, don’t misunderstand - I am not looking forward to the dying process itself! But I do have a great longing to go, to see Him. I’ve always imagined that I would probably need about a gazillion years in Purgatory, and that would be fine with me if that would be what I need to be purified to stand before Him. But He knows how much I long to go directly into His arms. I remember reading once (I think it may have been on the Holy Souls website, but I’m not sure) that one way to avoid Purgatory is to ask Him!! I remember thinking, “Oh come on now, it couldn’t possibly be that easy!” But it said to tell Him… tell Him of your fear of going to Purgatory… tell Him how much you long to go directly to Him, and if we have tried as best we can to live according to His Will, that He is so merciful He will forgive and cleanse us and take us directly Home! I figure, it certainly doesn’t hurt to ask!

“I wish that my heart could beat, that I could live and breathe only for Jesus, I wish that my tongue could utter no other name than that of Jesus; that my eye could see only Jesus; that my pen could write only about Jesus, and that my thoughts could soar to nothing but Jesus. I have often wondered where on earth there might be something on which I could center my love. But neither on earth nor in heaven do I find any such thing but only my beloved Jesus… I am the fruit of your passion, Jesus, born of your wounds. O Jesus, seek me in love; I no longer possess anything; you have stolen my heart…” - St. Gemma Galgani

 

[DBT]

But reading St. John makes me wonder if my hope and expectation of directly going to heaven is realistic? I am only on Book Two of “The Ascent of Mount Carmel”.

However, realistic or not, that is still my goal.

Somewhere in “The Ascent” or “Dark Night” St. John describes how the Dark Night is, in fact, the souls purgatory and the soul does indeed go directly to heaven. Maybe Joysong or Gabrielis might have the reference . . .

Dave.

PS - Tim and GemmaRose, please know you both will be in my prayers.

 

[TOP]

Dear Tim,

I’m so sorry… I hope you know that I didn’t mean “shipped off…” in any sort of a derogatory way. Psychiatrists are doctors, and as such there’s no difference when someone might benefit from a psychiatrist’s help as one with a heart condition would need help from a cardiologist.

I just meant that it’s so difficult for so many people to understand deep spiritual things – they either think you’re crazy and need help or that you’re trying to make yourself out to be a saint or something.

No matter what’s going in around you, or any of us, let’s thank Him that He is with us, and that He does understand, and that He is the best Physician when we need healing, the best of Friends when we need understanding, and the only One who will unconditionally love us no matter what our circumstances in life.

God bless.

“I wish that my heart could beat, that I could live and breathe only for Jesus, I wish that my tongue could utter no other name than that of Jesus; that my eye could see only Jesus; that my pen could write only about Jesus, and that my thoughts could soar to nothing but Jesus. I have often wondered where on earth there might be something on which I could center my love. But neither on earth nor in heaven do I find any such thing but only my beloved Jesus… I am the fruit of your passion, Jesus, born of your wounds. O Jesus, seek me in love; I no longer possess anything; you have stolen my heart…” - St. Gemma Galgani

Oh don’t be sorry, I take no offense. I was “shipped off”. I was talking about God at work one day and said to my manager that I wanted to be in heaven and left the conversation at that. He was just saying how he was not a “follower” of Jesus. So I was a bit emotional when I said it. I went back to work painting a car (I’m a automotive painter by trade) and within 15 minutes I had 2 cops and a paramedic in my shop. My manager took my comment as a suicide threat and called the cops on me. They locked me up for evaluation for 4-5 days. I was let go from my job within months after having been lead painter and shop manager for 5 years. That is just a small part of what I have been through just telling the truth. Tim

 

[Joysong]

Dark Night, Bk. 2, Chapter 6, Sect.6.2:

God humbles the soul greatly in order to exalt it greatly afterward. And if he did not ordain that these feelings, when quickened in the soul, be soon put to sleep again, a person would die in a few days. Only at intervals is one aware of these feelings in all their intensity. Sometimes this experience is so vivid that it seems to the soul that it sees hell and perdition open before it. These are the ones who go down into hell alive [Ps. 55:15], since their purgation on earth is similar to what takes place there. For this purgation is what would have to be undergone there. The soul that endures it here on earth either does not enter that place, or is detained there for only a short while. It gains more in one hour here on earth by this purgation than it would in many there.

Has anyone considered the immense benefit of daily plenary indulgences that can be gained so that ALL temporal punishment is remitted? All that is necessary is to go to confession (which is good for 2 weeks of plenaries), communion, and a few prayers for the Pope’s intentions. (One each OF, HM, and GB has been suggested)

If you go to communion daily and perform one of the devotions to which a plenary is granted, you can gain it every day. Of course, it is understood that you have no deliberate attachment to sin, but I think the people who post in this thread would fit the category.

Carole

 

[Joysong]

Dark Night, Bk. 2, Chapter 6, Sect.6.2:

God humbles the soul greatly in order to exalt it greatly afterward. And if he did not ordain that these feelings, when quickened in the soul, be soon put to sleep again, a person would die in a few days. Only at intervals is one aware of these feelings in all their intensity. Sometimes this experience is so vivid that it seems to the soul that it sees hell and perdition open before it. These are the ones who go down into hell alive [Ps. 55:15], since their purgation on earth is similar to what takes place there. For this purgation is what would have to be undergone there. The soul that endures it here on earth either does not enter that place, or is detained there for only a short while. It gains more in one hour here on earth by this purgation than it would in many there.

Has anyone considered the immense benefit of daily plenary indulgences that can be gained so that ALL temporal punishment is remitted? It is necessary is to go to confession (which is good for 2 weeks’ of plenaries), communion, and say a few prayers for the Pope’s intentions; i.e., O.F., H.M. and G.B.

If you go to communion daily and perform one of the devotions to which a plenary is granted, you can gain it every day. Of course, it is understood that you have no deliberate attachment to sin, but I think the people who post in this thread would fit the category.

Carole

 

[TOP]

"Dark Night, Bk. 2, Chapter 6, Sect.6.2:

God humbles the soul greatly in order to exalt it greatly afterward. And if he did not ordain that these feelings, when quickened in the soul, be soon put to sleep again, a person would die in a few days. Only at intervals is one aware of these feelings in all their intensity. Sometimes this experience is so vivid that it seems to the soul that it sees hell and perdition open before it. These are the ones who go down into hell alive [Ps. 55:15], since their purgation on earth is similar to what takes place there. For this purgation is what would have to be undergone there. The soul that endures it here on earth either does not enter that place, or is detained there for only a short while. It gains more in one hour here on earth by this purgation than it would in many there."

Tears, goosebumps and fear seized me when I read this. I think it is time I read his works. Tim

 

[InLight247]

Thanks, Dave and Carole. Yep, I read the part about dark night you mentioned. It is handy to have the book!

About the daily plenary indulgences, I understand the part of daily Mass with communion, and pray for Pope’s intention. How often should one go to confession? Every two weeks? And does one have to attend Mass everyday, 7 days a week in order to get the indulgence?

Not that I have any way to attend Mass every day, but I will be able to in the future when retire (long way to go, but time flies)!!

 

[RobNY]

Thanks, Dave and Carole. Yep, I read the part about dark night you mentioned. It is handy to have the book!

About the daily plenary indulgences, I understand the part of daily Mass with communion, and pray for Pope’s intention. How often should one go to confession? Every two weeks? And does one have to attend Mass everyday, 7 days a week in order to get the indulgence?

Not that I have any way to attend Mass every day, but I will be able to in the future when retire (long way to go, but time flies)!!

Some excerpts from the Manual of Indulgences, which is the English translation of the latest Enchridion Indulgentiarum:

N18 (squiggly thing)2.
A plenary indulgence can be acquired only once in the course of a day; a partial indulgence can be acquired multiple times.

N20 1. To gain a plenary indulgence, in addition to excluding all attachment to sin, even venial sin, it is necessary to perform the indulgenced work and fulfill the following three conditions: sacramental confession, Eucharistic Communion, and prayer for the intention of the Sovereign Pontiff.

1. A single sacramental confession suffices for gaining several plenary indulgences; but Holy Communion must be received and prayer for the intentions of the Holy Father must be recited for the gaining of each plenary indulgence.
2. The three conditions may be fulfilled several days before or after the performance of the prescribed work; it is, however, fitting that Communion be received and the prayer for the intention of the Holy Father be said on the same day the work is performed.
3. The condition of praying for the intention of the Holy Father is fully satisfied by reciting on Our Father and one Hail Mary; nevertheless, one has the option of reciting any other prayer according to individual piety and devotion, if recited for this intention.

If you have any more questions, I’d be happy to help you with more excerpts I can find.

-Rob

 

[InLight247]

Thanks Rob, that is very helpful.

So, the plenary indulgences could be applied for attending Mass on either week day or weekend?

For example, if I go to confession on Thursday, and attend Mass on
Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday, if I pray for Pope’s intention on those days, I may obtain 3 plenary indulgences?

 

[Joysong]

InLight:

About the daily plenary indulgences, I understand the part of daily Mass with communion, and pray for Pope’s intention. How often should one go to confession? Every two weeks? And does one have to attend Mass everyday, 7 days a week in order to get the indulgence?

No. You can gain it every time you go to Mass and receive communion, if you do the devotional practice and pray for the Holy Father. For instance, if you go to mass early and say the rosary in Church, that counts for a plenary that particular day. Another way to gain it is to read scripture for 1/2 hour. I believe there is one connected with adoration, too, but I forget what is required.

Also, in my bible, there is the prayer, “Come Holy Spirit…” and if we pray it every day for 30 days, it gains a plenary if you go to confession and communion at least once within that time frame.

I asked on the forum a long while ago how often to repeat my confession in order to gain them continually (every day if I go to daily mass) and was told to go at least every two weeks. Not sure if that is changed since I asked.

There must also be the intent to gain the indulgence, which was not mentioned by Rob above. I just make a silent prayer to that effect before I begin.

Kind regards,
Carole

 

[InLight247]

Ok, I attend Mass three times a week – Thursday morning (flex day of work), Saturday evening, and Sunday morning. If I pray for Pope’s intention, state my intent of gaining plenary indulgence in my prayer, and go to confession every two weeks, that means I can gain 3 plenary indulgence each week. Do I understand it right?

Thanks.

 

[RobNY]

From the Manual, again, under “Other Concessions.”

7

Eucharistic Adoration and Procession

1 A plenary indulgence is granted to the faithful who
…1 visit the Blessed Sacrament for adoration lasting at least a half hour;
(various indulgences for Eucharistic processions and congresses follow)

and

17 Prayers to the Blessed Virgin Mary

1 A plenary indulgence is granted to the faithful who
… 1 devoutly recite the Marian rosary in a church or oratory, or in a family, a religious community, or an association of the faithful, and in general when several of the faithful gather for some honest purpose

It notes:

The rosary is a prayer formula consisting of fifteen decades of Hail Marys preceded by the Our Father, during the recitation of which we piously meditate on the corresponding mysteries of our redemption.

Regarding the plenary indulgence for the recitation of the Marian rosary, the following is prescribed:

1. The recitation of a third part of the rosary is sufficient, but the five decades must be recited without interruption.
2. Devout meditation on the mysteries is to be added to the vocal prayer.
   …

30

Reading of Sacred Scripture

1 A plenary indulgence is granted to the faithful who read the Sacred Scriptures as spiritual reading, from a text approved by competent authority and with the reverence due to the divine word, for at least half an hour; if the time is less, the indulgence will be partial.

 

[RobNY]

Joysong-- I have not seen the “Come Holy Spirit” under plenary indulgences, but only noticed it as a partially indulgenced prayer. Funny enough it quotes only the first sentence, “Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful and enkindle in them the fire of your love,” and not the rest of the prayer.

A plenary indulgence is offered, however, for the devout assistance in the singing or recitation of the Veni Creator Spiritus on the first day of the year or Pentecost.

InLight247:

Ok, I attend Mass three times a week – Thursday morning (flex day of work), Saturday evening, and Sunday morning. If I pray for Pope’s intention, state my intent of gaining plenary indulgence in my prayer, and go to confession every two weeks, that means I can gain 3 plenary indulgence each week. Do I understand it right?

Thanks.

I think so. Sometimes we make up crazy schemes in our heads and we can’t spot the flaw until we try to run through it.

But on any given day if you can answer “yes” to the questions,

1.“Will I be going to confession within seven days, or have I confessed within seven days?”
2. Have I prayed for the Pope’s intentions?
3. Have I received communion?
4. Am I detached from all sin?
5. Have I performed the work?

Then, I think you’ve got it. Unless I’ve missed something… Remember one confession can cover many indulgences, but numbers 2-5 cover only one.

-Rob

 

[InLight247]

But on any given day if you can answer “yes” to the questions,

1.“Will I be going to confession within seven days, or have I confessed within seven days?”
2. Have I prayed for the Pope’s intentions?
3. Have I received communion?
4. Am I detached from all sin?
5. Have I performed the work?

Then, I think you’ve got it. Unless I’ve missed something… Remember one confession can cover many indulgences, but numbers 2-5 cover only one.

-Rob

#5 the work? Do you mean from #1 through # 4?

Since we are talking about plenary indulgence, does Divine Mercy Sunday grant special plenary indulgence?

 

[RobNY]

#5 the work? Do you mean from #1 through # 4?

I can see how “work” would be confusing, my apologies. By the work I mean the indulgenced action/prayer.

Since we are talking about plenary indulgence, does Divine Mercy Sunday grant special plenary indulgence?

Yes.

… on the Second Sunday of Easter or Divine Mercy Sunday, in any church or chapel, in a spirit that is completely detached from the affection for a sin, even a venial sin, take part in the prayers and devotions held in honour of Divine Mercy, or who, in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament exposed or reserved in the tabernacle, recite the Our Father and the Creed, adding a devout prayer to the merciful Lord Jesus (e.g., “Merciful Jesus, I trust in you!”)

-Rob

 

[InLight247]

… on the Second Sunday of Easter or Divine Mercy Sunday, in any church or chapel, in a spirit that is completely detached from the affection for a sin, even a venial sin, take part in the prayers and devotions held in honour of Divine Mercy, or who, in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament exposed or reserved in the tabernacle, recite the Our Father and the Creed, adding a devout prayer to the merciful Lord Jesus (e.g., “Merciful Jesus, I trust in you!”)

-Rob

Thanks, Rob. My question is not about our obligations but our gains.
Do we get more than one day of plenary indulgence on Divine Mercy Sunday?
Somehow I have an impression that all the punishments of our past sins are pardoned and erased. I may be wrong.