Baptism of babies & infants

[rev_kevin]

So, since He was circumcised as a baby, you believe by that act He instituted circumcision - after all, He was the son of God from the beginning.

placido

I’m sure you can do better then that. You did not answer the question. The question had nothing to do with circumcision. Stick to the question and if you can answer it and stop coming up with laim answers or is that to difficult to do?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Micky
Thank you for your comments. You just reafirmed the reason I left the Catholic faith.
You don’t like others point of views and you laugh at them for their views. You don’t have a open mind to anything. You think that your religion should be the only one and no other religion counts. You can’t prove to me anything about why infants should be baptised. You can’t point it out in the bible only the house hold, not proof. You said that I don’t think infants are human or that they are not part of the house hold. That just showed me how narrow minded and ignorant you are. I told you that Jesus didn’t get baptized until the age of 30 and you made light of that. I have given you the proof straight from the bible, I did the math, did you? 12+18=30. You have to put me down to get your point across and belittle me because my views are not yours. That’s being a good Catholic. Is that what you are taught in your church? Is that what Jesus taught to his followers? Maybe you should read the bible and try to understand what it is telling you because you are doing the opposite.
Once again thank you for reaffirming my decession to leave the Catholic faith. Part of me leaving is because of people like you.
Reverend Kevin

Why leave a Church because of people do you not know the Cathloic Church is full of sinners,shame on you,I go to Church because of God not people

 

[Bill_Pick]

4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born again? 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

5 “Unless a man be born again”… By these words our Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism; and by the word water it is evident that the application of it is necessary with the words. Matt. 28. 19.

6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit. 7 Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again. 8 The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered, and said to him: How can these things be done? 10 Jesus answered, and said to him: Art thou a master in Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Amen, amen I say to thee, that we speak what we know, and we testify what we have seen, and you receive not our testimony. 12 If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not; how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him, may not perish; but may have life everlasting.

16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. 18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. 20 For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved.

18 “Is not judged”… He that believeth, viz., by a faith working through charity, is not judged, that is, is not condemned; but the obstinate unbeliever is judged, that is, condemned already, by retrenching himself from the society of Christ and his church.

19 “The judgment”… That is, the cause of his comdemnation.

21 But he that doth truth, cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, because they are done in God. 22 After these things Jesus and his disciples came into the land of Judea: and there he abode with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Ennon near Salim; because there was much water there; and they came and were baptized. 24 For John was not yet cast into prison.

 

[rev_kevin]

So what? Nowhere in the Bible does it say not to baptize a baby or infant either. Additionally, nowhere in the Bible does it say everything must be written in the Bible.

So what you are telling me is the bible don’t matter. All I asked was prove to me where it says that infants need to be baptized, I never said they shouldn’t. And you can’t prove it .

Jesus was born under the Old Testament law. That was according to that law that He was presented to God in Jerusalem.

So what is the new way. Show me.

Are you seriously saying that any baptism before the age of 30 is invalid?

Never said that, I said Jesus wasn’t baptized until he was 30 get it? Understand accepting Christ is a personal decission, you can acept Christ at any age but the decission is up to you and a infant can’t do that. No one can make that decession for you. Get It?

Why does the method of baptism matter and why this “special attention” if, as you said, baptism is useless, it “doesn’t save?

Never said it was useless said baptism is not a requirement of salvation, but its a requirement of obedience. I also gave a deffination from the websters dictionary and which said, To submersion or sprinkle with water during baptism. Baptism does not save a person but is a picture of personal salvation and a sign of obedience to Christ. Get it?
Stop twisting my words

And where did you get that “picture” from, definitely not from the Bible. “Baptism now saves you,” says the Bible (1 Peter 3:21).

Keep reading, 1 Peter 3:21 also says, “Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body, its an appeal to God from a clean conscience.” Baptism is a symbol of the transformation that happens in the heart of those who believe. {Romans 6:3-5, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:12}
It is not the ceremony that saves us but faith in Christ’s death and resurrection.
Get the picture

And, according that weird argument, obedience of God is not required for salvation.

Never said that, I said just the opposite. Once again I said baptism doesn’t save a person, but is a picture of personal salvation and a sign of OBEDIENCE to Christ.Don’t twist may words.

You are saying baptism is the birth to a new kind of living, contradicting your earlier assertion to the effect that baptism is useless, just a waste of time.

Never said it was useless or a waste of time. Baptism is like a dead person being buried under ground, it pictures that a person has died to the old way of life. Rising up from th ewater is like a person coming up from the earth, it pictures a NEW LIFE THAT IS ETERNAL and future resurrection from the grave.Once again don’t twist may words.

And finally, you gave yourself a knockout. If baptism is useless (like you say) then all the elements you associate with it (repentance, confession, evidence of changed lives, coming judgment, and a focus on Jesus and His Spirit) are useless.

Once again, I never said that, thats your assumption. Stop twisting my words.

Why can’t you people accept that other religions have a different view of what baptism is, you say my view is wrong but have you ever stoped and thought mabe yours is wrong. Ya’ll are quick to deminish others for their beliefs but can’t accept some one diminishing your belief. Ya’ll have a closed mind and aren’t willing to accept others. I have not said anything bad about your beliefs all I did was ask a question but all I get from ya’ll is harassment for my beliefs. Is that what Christ taught us to do? No. Didn’t he preach kindness to all even your enemies or is that not in the Catholic way. I was raised a Catholic,went to Catholic schools, was a alter boy, spent 1 year in siminary school so I know what your faith is all about and the way you people are, I made the right decession
Thank you for showing me that.

placido

 

[Bill_Pick]

When they said all housrhold they was thinking people are smart and know it has Children in them, Pick out 20 house today and you will find a ifant its not that hard and for non believe they put this in the Bible Jn 21:25.
Remember the Church was here years B4 the Bible the Bible was not put together under a book until about 300 or 400 ad and the Church has been here from 33ad and the Church is the Pillar of truth NOT the bible 1 TIM 3;15. hope this helps

 

[rev_kevin]

Why leave a Church because of people do you not know the Cathloic Church is full of sinners,shame on you,I go to Church because of God not people

But the people reflect the church, if a person who claims to be good but does nothing but bad even if they go to church does it not make the whole church look bad. Take a look at the priests and what they did. Did it make the church look good. no Remember one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. And if a church goer is like that or the one preaching is even worse, I don’t want any part of that because they don’t practice what they preach, they are hypocrites. And yes you said it Catholic church is full of sinners,like the priests who molested young boys. Now thats a religion to be proud of isn’t it?

 

[Bill_Pick]

You are one very confused person do you think that Priest are the people that sin well you need to read the paper in the little town I live we hjad 4 preacher that was doing the same think priest are doing but it just got in the local paper,If a priest dose wrong and yes same did the world knows about. We had a preacher here that was also on the school board and was doing the same thing and it never made the news, Jim Bakker was with another man and it was months B4 it was in the nat, news so it just not Cathloics its all over the world so lets get are fact straight, Cathloic are not happy with it but it happens and not only with Cathloic all religion groups,With the # of Priest we have it was a small % but its not right and the Church is taking care of it,it is a disgrace and NOT of God==The devil is a hard worker

 

[rev_kevin]

When they said all housrhold they was thinking people are smart and know it has Children in them, Pick out 20 house today and you will find a ifant its not that hard and for non believe they put this in the Bible Jn 21:25.
Remember the Church was here years B4 the Bible the Bible was not put together under a book until about 300 or 400 ad and the Church has been here from 33ad and the Church is the Pillar of truth NOT the bible 1 TIM 3;15. hope this helps

The church is in your heart, the church your talking about is nothing but brick, morter and stone, a building. Why is it that all ya’ll can bring up is the house hold, is that what you base everything on, is that what your belief revolves around, can’t you come up with anything eles. And stop twisting my words, I never said a house hold don’t have infants, that is what ya’ll keep thinking I said I never said, that those are words coming from ya’ll not me. So you don’t beleive the bible is the word of God and its not true. Why do you quote from the bible if its not the truth. You keep saying the house hold well thats in the bible is that the turth or not, so every thing you have said to me that is from the bible you don’t beleive beccause the bible is not the truth. Sounds like a hypocrite to me quoting from something you say is not the truth. If its not the truth, stop quoting from it.

 

[rev_kevin]

You are one very confused person do you think that Priest are the people that sin well you need to read the paper in the little town I live we hjad 4 preacher that was doing the same think priest are doing but it just got in the local paper,If a priest dose wrong and yes same did the world knows about. We had a preacher here that was also on the school board and was doing the same thing and it never made the news, Jim Bakker was with another man and it was months B4 it was in the nat, news so it just not Cathloics its all over the world so lets get are fact straight, Cathloic are not happy with it but it happens and not only with Cathloic all religion groups,With the # of Priest we have it was a small % but its not right and the Church is taking care of it,it is a disgrace and NOT of God==The devil is a hard worker

I agree with you there is evil in all religions. So you are telling me that these 4 preachers molested little boys? And another one did the same thing, sounds like your little town isn’t good for kids, sounds like your little town is full of sin.Sounds like your llittle town is full of molesters. If my math is right your little town has at least 5 molesters in it. Good town to live in right. Jim Baker was with another man, not little boys. The priests were with both young men or little boys not a man. So what is worse raping little boys or cosentual sex with a man? So you cant compare him with the priests thats apples to oranges.
Don’t get me wrong both are bad and should not be tolerated. No i’m not confused and i know that the priests arnt the only ones but i have my reasons for leaving the religion and that is not the reason as a matter of fact i left way before that even happened or came out.
I think we have been bickering long enough I’ll be man enough and say lets call a truce and stop this. agree?

 

[Bill_Pick]

B i c k e r i n g and call a t r u c e WOW You are confused,nice talking to You I can now see why you can,t understand a household just being adults, a household can be Children, adults and man and woman and little kids,well hope this will help have a good life and we can stop brickering and call a truce does that work for you and I hope I got the words right brickering – truce–say bye

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

So what is worse raping little boys or cosentual sex with a man?

Both are terrible. Both are sin. You can’t justify sin by looking to the next person and saying to yourself, “well he is worse than me.”* All have sinned and fall short* my friend.

It is strange though. I thought the issue was being hypocrites and not practicing what they preach. Now it’s whoever is the better of the two evils

How quickly:
rev kevin:

I don’t want any part of that because they don’t practice what they preach, they are hypocrites.

Turns into:
rev kevin:

So what is worse raping little boys or cosentual sex with a man?

God bless

 

[onenow1]

But the people reflect the church, if a person who claims to be good but does nothing but bad even if they go to church does it not make the whole church look bad. Take a look at the priests and what they did. Did it make the church look good. no Remember one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. And if a church goer is like that or the one preaching is even worse, I don’t want any part of that because they don’t practice what they preach, they are hypocrites. And yes you said it Catholic church is full of sinners,like the priests who molested young boys. Now thats a religion to be proud of isn’t it?

Quote= onenow1, Rev Ken,with all due respect you know Jesus came down in the flesh and hung around all of us sinners;and you know that was His mission to save all, including hypocrites ? I mean no disrespet here but your not saying you are better are you ?

Rev Ken,remember the Pharisee that prayed and thanked God he was not like others ?

When you find the perfect church the perfect minister and the perfect people I’m ready to sign up .

Peace, and God Bless onenow1," Snack time "

 

[freedomwriter]

Micky
Thank you for your comments. You just reafirmed the reason I left the Catholic faith.
You don’t like others point of views and you laugh at them for their views. You don’t have a open mind to anything. You think that your religion should be the only one and no other religion counts. You can’t prove to me anything about why infants should be baptised. You can’t point it out in the bible only the house hold, not proof. You said that I don’t think infants are human or that they are not part of the house hold. That just showed me how narrow minded and ignorant you are. I told you that Jesus didn’t get baptized until the age of 30 and you made light of that. I have given you the proof straight from the bible, I did the math, did you? 12+18=30. You have to put me down to get your point across and belittle me because my views are not yours. That’s being a good Catholic. Is that what you are taught in your church? Is that what Jesus taught to his followers? Maybe you should read the bible and try to understand what it is telling you because you are doing the opposite.
Once again thank you for reaffirming my decession to leave the Catholic faith. Part of me leaving is because of people like you.
Reverend Kevin

Amen to that Brother

 

[freedomwriter]

But the people reflect the church, if a person who claims to be good but does nothing but bad even if they go to church does it not make the whole church look bad. Take a look at the priests and what they did. Did it make the church look good. no Remember one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. And if a church goer is like that or the one preaching is even worse, I don’t want any part of that because they don’t practice what they preach, they are hypocrites. And yes you said it Catholic church is full of sinners,like the priests who molested young boys. Now thats a religion to be proud of isn’t it?

OUCH!!!

 

[freedomwriter]

I agree with you there is evil in all religions. So you are telling me that these 4 preachers molested little boys? And another one did the same thing, sounds like your little town isn’t good for kids, sounds like your little town is full of sin.Sounds like your llittle town is full of molesters. If my math is right your little town has at least 5 molesters in it. Good town to live in right. Jim Baker was with another man, not little boys. The priests were with both young men or little boys not a man. So what is worse raping little boys or cosentual sex with a man? So you cant compare him with the priests thats apples to oranges.
Don’t get me wrong both are bad and should not be tolerated. No i’m not confused and i know that the priests arnt the only ones but i have my reasons for leaving the religion and that is not the reason as a matter of fact i left way before that even happened or came out.
I think we have been bickering long enough I’ll be man enough and say lets call a truce and stop this. agree?

I’m with you brother on the household part. They keep coming up with the circumscision part but that had to do with sin. Baptism does not rid one of sin. They continue to say that they go together but it doesn’t. Thanks for being a man and moving on. There are several on this forum that it doesn’t matter if you show them straight from God’s Word they will just continue to argue. God Bless and keep up the good fight of faith.

 

[onenow1]

Hi, All,
Acts 2: 38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39 For the promise is to you and to your [CHILDREN] and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."

40 And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”

41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Quote = onenow1, Verse 39 is very interesting .

Comment : I think Jesus knows how much we mortals, need physical realities to represent our Spiritual needs, after all Jesus became man for us.

Matthew 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him.

14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”

15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness.” Then he consented.

Quote= onenow. I think this verse 15, exemplifies, the humility of Jesus.

Jesus need not follow His own ordinances, but humbles Himself for us.

Thus I believe there is a need for families, Just as circumcision was a right to entrance, so to is Baptism.

Peace,and God Bless, just thought iI would repost this.

 

[placido]

I’m sure you can do better then that. You did not answer the question. The question had nothing to do with circumcision. Stick to the question and if you can answer it and stop coming up with laim answers or is that to difficult to do?

And the question was …

He was the same as a infant as he was a adult. The son of God. So if he was baptized as a infant wouldn’t it be instituted the same? Why must he be an adult to do that? After he was the son of God from the begining.

If Jesus was baptised as an infant you wouldn’t have considered that as instituting baptism. Why? Because He was circumcised as a baby, yet you don’t consider that as instituting circumcision - “He was the same as an infant as He was an adult”.

placido

 

[Bill_Pick]

Both are terrible. Both are sin. You can’t justify sin by looking to the next person and saying to yourself, “well he is worse than me.”* All have sinned and fall short* my friend.

It is strange though. I thought the issue was being hypocrites and not practicing what they preach. Now it’s whoever is the better of the two evils

How quickly:

We had two preacher here that got kilck out of there church one was in a Baptism church and he left and went to a non=denomination church and in three years he was the head preacher,and this is in the same town.,I think the church member are the hypocrites

 

[rev_kevin]

B i c k e r i n g and call a t r u c e WOW You are confused,nice talking to You I can now see why you can,t understand a household just being adults, a household can be Children, adults and man and woman and little kids,well hope this will help have a good life and we can stop brickering and call a truce does that work for you and I hope I got the words right brickering – truce–say bye

I guess you CAN’T read can you. I NEVER said that children aren’t part of a house hold how IGNORANT are you? Show me were I said that children aren’t part of a house hold. You can’t because I never said that. Them are words coming out of your stupid mouth not mine.You can’t prove your statement, why? Because your NOT ENTELLIGANT enough to back your words up. Seems to me that you see only what you want to see because you haven’t heard or seen that I never said what you said I did. At least I’m MAN and SMART enough to know when things are getting out of hand, but you on the other hand can’t see that. Do you live your life bich’n all the time? Do you go through life with blinders on? Do you get a pleasure in belittling people? Do you go through life not understanding what people say? You call yourself a person who knows God? Don’t sound like it to me. Seems to me you want to continue this STUPID BICKERING. Why can’t you ACCEPT others point of views? Its probably your to NARROW MINDED and want everything to go your way. Well buddy life don’t always go your way and people don’t always see things the way you want them to see it. But no matter what I say or anyone eles says you are to IGNORANT to understand it anyway. Looking forward to your rebuttle.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Because your NOT ENTELLIGANT

Oh the irony…

Lets not resort to name calling. We can have constructive dialog but this doesn’t help at all.

God bless you