Baptism of babies & infants

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ParkerD said:
It would need to be before 70 AD, and be a primary source. Thanks. I will really be interested and appreciative.
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Rather random requirement there for you to come up with, one that excludes:

Gospel of Matthew: written c.70-100AD ~ Author unknown

Gospel of Mark: written c.70AD (after the fall of the Second Temple) ~ anonymous author

Gospel of Luke & Acts of the Apostles: written c.60AD ~ same author: Luke the Evangelist

Gospel of John: written c.90-100AD ~ author unknown ~ possibly coming out of the Johannine communities that followed St. John the Apostle

Again, it is clear from the NT writings that baptism was viewed as replacing circumcision. If an adult male converted to Judaism, he was circumcised as an adult. When a male child of a Jewish family was born, he was circumcised when he was 8 days old.

The NT makes it very clear that baptism replaced circumcision. It is also clear that baptism is a requirement for salvation.

What is so difficult to understand about this?
 
RebeccaJ said:
The NT makes it very clear that baptism replaced circumcision. It is also clear that baptism is a requirement for salvation.

What is so difficult to understand about this?
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He has no choice but to reject this because he has chosen to embrace a modern day innovation. 😦
 
The Catholic Church baptizes infants because Christ wills it. He must will it because He said, Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me.'' (Matt. 19:14). According to the Apostle Paul, one cannot truly come to Christ except through Baptism. (Rom. 6:3-4). Christ must will it because the Apostles baptized all the people’’ (Luke 3:21 ) and whole households (Acts 16:15, 1 Cor. 1:16). Certainly all the people'' and whole households’’ included infants. Christ must will it because He stated categorically that Baptism is a necessary prerequisite for salvation (John 3:5), and He certainly desires the salvation of infants. He must will it because the primitive Christian Church, which had fresh firsthand knowledge of His Will, baptized infants. In the ancient catacombs of Rome the inscriptions on the tombs of infants make mention of their having been baptized. One such inscription reads: Here rests Archillia, a newly-baptized; she was one year and five months old; died February 23rd.'' An unbaptized infant is not simply in a natural’’ state; it is in the state of reprobation, living under the reign of Satan, with the sin of Adam ``staining’’ its soul. Therefore infants should be baptized as soon as is reasonably possible–usually within 2-3 weeks of birth. When children grow up with Our Lord dwelling in their souls, they have a powerful protection against sin. Moreover, Our Lord can thereby draw children to a deep love for Himself at a very early age
 
Bill_Pick said:
He must will it because the primitive Christian Church, which had fresh firsthand knowledge of His Will, baptized infants. In the ancient catacombs of Rome the inscriptions on the tombs of infants make mention of their having been baptized. One such inscription reads: ``Here rests Archillia, a newly-baptized; she was one year and five months old; died February 23rd.’’
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Hi, Bill Pick,
I would be fascinated to know the approximate date of that particular inscription. Is that available? Thanks.
 
ParkerD said:
Hi, Bill Pick,
I would be fascinated to know the approximate date of that particular inscription. Is that available? Thanks.
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If I remember it come out of the book "Catholicism and FundamenTalism by Karl Keating, its a very good book, You need to get it its a good read
 
I have always enjoyed this quote:
“And first baptize the little ones; and if they can speak for themselves, they shall do so; if not, their parents or other relatives shall speak for them.”
**St Hippolytus’ (170-236 A.D.) **

Yes, I know it is not within Parker’s 70AD benchmark, but it is very telling. If infant baptism was an innovation, St Hippolytus would have been lambasted for such a remark. 😉

Besides, Scripture is our earliest witness for infant baptism (whole households).🙂
 
All those who are validly baptized are members of the Catholic Church, albeit imperfectly. There is only one Church. Jesus did not establish “churches”. He established one Church in Matthew 16 with Peter as the first prime minister of this Church.

In each of the Covenants of God to His people there has been a Prime Minister. Jesus is the King, but a king always has his Prime Minister

In the Old Testament Moses, and his successors, were Prime Minister, the Chair of Moses (Matt 23:2). That “chair” (authority) came to an end and a new “chair” (authority) was established because a New Covenant was established.

Appointing a Prime Minister is the way God always did it since the Garden of Eden and He did it here too. This is proven in the Bible because when Jesus appointed Peter as the first Prime Minister of the New Covenant he quoted from Isaiah 22:21-23. The story in Isaiah was about the secession of office of Prime Minister. This is absolutely clear and is bold biblical proof that Peter was the first Prime Minister of the Church.

Thus, the true Church in the fullness of the faith is that group of people who are in communion with the successor of St. Peter.

Since Jesus established one Church and one Baptism, there is only one true Church in the fullness of the Faith (the Catholic Church) and one valid Baptism (with water and the Trinitarian formula). Thus, even when a person is validly baptized in a Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Baptist, and other fellowships they are Baptized into the Catholic Church even though they are not “card-carrying” members of the Catholic Church.
 
Hi.

Matthew 28

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

“No age limit I can see:nope:”

Peace,and God Bless onenow1
 
onenow1 said:
Hi.

Matthew 28

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

Verse 19. Teach,Baptise.:yup: it’s a command in verse 20.:yup:
"No age limit I can see:nope:
Peace,and God Bless onenow1
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Yes and who needs more 'life long" christian instruction then a child in the faith 👍

ANd making sure you are properly instruction you child insures that you must also be constantly learning your faith … :yup:

Hey wait a mintute - Jesus, really was onto something here - this really works!!!
 
Jesus tells us “what to do and how to do it”:

“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations …”

How?

“Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit …”

And then?

“Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

placido
 
placido said:
Jesus tells us “what to do and how to do it”:

“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations …”

How?

“Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit …”

And then?

“Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

placido
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Placido,
So are you saying that if a non-Catholic adult or youth walks up to a Catholic church and goes in and finds a priest and asks to be baptized, the priest will do that immediately (first) and then teach them afterward?
 
ParkerD said:
Placido,
So are you saying that if a non-Catholic adult or youth walks up to a Catholic church and goes in and finds a priest and asks to be baptized, the priest will do that immediately (first) and then teach them afterward?
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No. That is here where Mark 16:16 comes in. We use Matthew 28 for infants (baptize and then teach) and Mark 16 for adults (teach and then baptize).

placido
 
placido said:
No. That is here where Mark 16:16 comes in. We use Matthew 28 for infants (baptize and then teach) and Mark 16 for adults (teach and then baptize).

placido
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Quite correctly too …because the infants [children, servants, et al that comprise the household] are baptised through the faith of the parent [or head of the household] who have not only the right but a duty to speak on their behalf and provide for their care.

And what greater love abd care can a parent give then the promise of faith and eternal life in Christ Jesus? What greater sustenance is there then being born again, graced in the waters of baptism, plunged into the tomb to rise again in resurrection?

Someone in authority and love speaks at baptisms for those who are unableto peak for themselves and those have already been taught, intructed in the faith…they have already rejected Satan and his promises - and they pledge that again …

As a Christian and a parent, God calls you to mark your child with the faith and raise the up … to do less then that is to surrender as Eve did … tricked by the serpent’s cunning - who says “Let the child decide - surely you would not force your beliefs upon them?”😦
 
YADA said:
Quite correctly too …because the infants [children, servants, et al that comprise the household] are baptised through the faith of the parent [or head of the household] who have not only the right but a duty to speak on their behalf and provide for their care.

And what greater love abd care can a parent give then the promise of faith and eternal life in Christ Jesus? What greater sustenance is there then being born again, graced in the waters of baptism, plunged into the tomb to rise again in resurrection?

Someone in authority and love speaks at baptisms for those who are unableto peak for themselves and those have already been taught, intructed in the faith…they have already rejected Satan and his promises - and they pledge that again …

As a Christian and a parent, God calls you to mark your child with the faith and raise the up … to do less then that is to surrender as Eve did … tricked by the serpent’s cunning - who says “Let the child decide - surely you would not force your beliefs upon them?”😦
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Great!

placido
 
25 pages and already approaching 400 posts - time to thank you all for your valuable contributions.

placido
 
YADA said:
Quite correctly too …because the infants [children, servants, et al that comprise the household] are baptised through the faith of the parent [or head of the household] who have not only the right but a duty to speak on their behalf and provide for their care.
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***“And first baptize the little ones; and if they can speak for themselves, they shall do so; if not, their parents or other relatives shall speak for them.”
*St Hippolytus (170-236 A.D.) **
 
Mickey said:
***“And first baptize the little ones; and if they can speak for themselves, they shall do so; if not, their parents or other relatives shall speak for them.”
***St Hippolytus (170-236 A.D.)
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" This reminds me, that from the minute we are born till our last days we are learning just in different stages ! .:yup:’

Peace and God Bless, onenow1
 
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