Baptism of babies & infants

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Job 14: 1 "Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.
2 He comes forth like a flower, and withers; he flees like a shadow, and continues not.
3 And dost thou open thy eyes upon such a one and bring him into judgment with thee?
4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.

[SIGN]I believe emotionalism created the problem of not baptising infants, the above verses clearly point to the need.[/SIGN]
Peace and God Bless all
onenow1:)
I agree
 
Are you a believer in “Sola Johannes 3:5”? I would rather propose that you listern to God’s Word (both written and oral) as a single unity. If you do that, I am sure you will get baptism out of it.

placido
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

5 “Unless a man be born again”… By these words our Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism; and by the word water it is evident that the application of it is necessary with the words. Matt. 28. 19.
 
Hi placido, thanks for your reply. My question wasn’t about the Ethiopian ( mabe he was dumb) I’m asking you why do you read the Bible if you can’t interpret what you are reading? ED O.
ED Here are a few verse to help you understand the Bible, Enjoy

Jn 3:5; Mk 16:16 - baptism required for entering heaven
1Cor 15:21-22 - in Adam all die, in Christ all made alive
Mk 10:14 - let children come; to such belongs the kingdom
Lk 18:15 - people were bringing even infants to him…
Col 2:11-12 - baptism has replaced circumcision
Jos 24:15 - as for me and my house, we will serve Lord
Mt 8:5ff. - daughter healed because of centurion’s faith
Mt 15:21ff. - daughter healed because of Canaanite woman’s faith
Lk 7:1ff. - just say the word, and let my servant be healed
Acts 16:31 - believe in Lord Jesus you & house will be saved
Acts 16:15 - she was baptized, with all her household
Acts 16:33 - he and all his family were baptized at once
1Cor 1:16 - I baptized the household of Stephanas
 
ED Here are a few verse to help you understand the Bible, Enjoy

Jn 3:5; Mk 16:16 - baptism required for entering heaven
1Cor 15:21-22 - in Adam all die, in Christ all made alive
Mk 10:14 - let children come; to such belongs the kingdom
Lk 18:15 - people were bringing even infants to him…
Col 2:11-12 - baptism has replaced circumcision
Jos 24:15 - as for me and my house, we will serve Lord
Mt 8:5ff. - daughter healed because of centurion’s faith
Mt 15:21ff. - daughter healed because of Canaanite woman’s faith
Lk 7:1ff. - just say the word, and let my servant be healed
Acts 16:31 - believe in Lord Jesus you & house will be saved
Acts 16:15 - she was baptized, with all her household
Acts 16:33 - he and all his family were baptized at once
1Cor 1:16 - I baptized the household of Stephanas
Hi Bill, thanks for your reply. you present several Bible verses above. I’m familiar with all of them. What is your point? ED O.
 
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

5 “Unless a man be born again”… By these words our Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism; and by the word water it is evident that the application of it is necessary with the words. Matt. 28. 19.
Hi Bill, thanks for your reply. Bill Jesus never said, "“unless a man be born again of water” By misquoting Jesus in John 3:5 is how the Catholics get baptism out of that verse. That verse has nothing to do with baptism. That’s a erroneous quote from the inferior Catholic Duoay Rhiems Bible. ED O.
 
Hi Bill, thanks for your reply. Bill Jesus never said, "“unless a man be born again of water” By misquoting Jesus in John 3:5 is how the Catholics get baptism out of that verse. That verse has nothing to do with baptism. That’s a erroneous quote from the inferior Catholic Duoay Rhiems Bible. ED O.
Hey Ed, where did Peter get Baptism from? (Acts 2:38) Why did Peter teach that it forgave sins? Where did Paul get Baptism from, then? That is the first thing he asked for after receiving his sight back from Ananias (Acts 9:17-18). Why did Paul teach that it washed sins away? And the Ethiopian eunuch? What on earth made him ask Phillip to Baptize him? (Acts 8:37-39) And, Jesus and the Apostles baptizing? (John 3:22) Would you have straightened them out if you had been there?

Interesting “new gospel” (Galatians 1:6-9) you are preaching here. Of course, Christians must reject it.
 
No, Ed. The Bible cannot be infallible. The charism of infallibility applies only to persons. In order to be fallible, one must be able to act, to choose, to discern, and to take responsibility. Scritpure, however, Holy, does not posess these characteristics. That is why Jesus built a Church, made of persons. The Scripture is inspired and inerrant.
It is this error or ascribing qualities to Scriptures that it does not posess that has produced so many divisions in the Body.

Ed, none of these people or events at all relate to the charism of infallibility. The fact that you bring them as evidence to that fact demonstrates that you do not understand the doctrien.

No, Ed. Papal infallibility was established by Jesus when He promised to send His spirit to lead the Church into all Truth. He kept His promises that the gates of hell would not prevail.

Of course He calls upon all to repent and believe. Repent means to turn away from sin and to God. No one can, of themselves, present an appeal of a clean conscience toward God. Only the HS, by the blood of Jesus, can cleanse the heart and conscience.

In this case it is, Ed. In the Rite of Christian Baptism, the candidate calls upon His name and is then baptized in His name.
EdOsiecki;5609981:
Rom 10:13 mentions only the calling of his name You then tell me it’s both calling on His name and baptism.]/quote]

When you explore the ancient rites of baptism, you will see that these have always gone together.

Yes, you and millions of other individuals, each coming up with his own ideas. The nature of reading is that we interpret what we read. Catholics read from the point of view of those who penned the books. You do not. That is why we understand it differently.

No, Ed. God is not bound my the sacraments. He can save whoever He wants, however He likes.

Both of these are included together in the Rite. The Apostles never separated them.
Hi guanophore, thanks for your reply. -----LINE #1 above, If the Bible is not infallible then the Roman Catholic church has no claim to be either since they get their information from the Bible and not in reverse. I suggest that you read John 1:14 and stay on that verse until you can understand it. “The WORD became flesh—” The WORD is Jesus. Why is Jesus being called the WORD?------LINE #2 Lot’s of mumbo jumbo no substance. If you know the doctrine so well state it. -----LINE #3 Apparently you don’t understand Pentecost. There were 120 women and men who received the Holy Spirit. Not the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic church. It didn’t exist. The peole are the church-----LINE #4 You got this one right. The Holy Spirit convicts, the Blood of Jesus forgives sins and clears the conscience. There’s nothing left for baptism to do is there? It’s an act of righteousness as Jesus states Mat. 3:14 and commands us to do per Mat 28:19.-----LINE #5 This is where you have a problem, an infant can not call on His name. Why then baptized them?------LINE #6 What does exploring the ancient rites have to with my question? Nothing! They may have always gone together but calling on the Lord to be saved is not doing something that the Lord has commanded. LINE #7 Here you insinuate that your method of interpretation by Magisterium only, which in essence means leave your brains at the door, is superior to what the Holy Spirit teaches through individuals. That contradicts Scripture my friend . John 1:27, ”As for you, the anointing you received from Him (Holy Spirit) remains in you, and you DO NOT need anyone to TEACH you.” This is as clear as it can be to me and it ought to be to you also. ------LINE #8 You got this one right. God is not bound by the sacraments. He can save whoever He wants. So why then do you baptize infants and force salvation on them?------LINE #9 I know that ! ED O.
 
Hey Ed, where did Peter get Baptism from? (Acts 2:38) Why did Peter teach that it forgave sins? Where did Paul get Baptism from, then? That is the first thing he asked for after receiving his sight back from Ananias (Acts 9:17-18). Why did Paul teach that it washed sins away? And the Ethiopian eunuch? What on earth made him ask Phillip to Baptize him? (Acts 8:37-39) And, Jesus and the Apostles baptizing? (John 3:22) Would you have straightened them out if you had been there?

Interesting “new gospel” (Galatians 1:6-9) you are preaching here. Of course, Christians must reject it.
Hi po18guy, thanks for your reply. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, it appears to me that every time a Catholic sees the words “water or wash” it automatically means baptism. There isn’t a Scripture in the Bible that states baptism ALONE forgives sins and one becomes born again by it, without something connect to it. Like this Acts 22:16, “And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, CALLING ON HIS NAME.” Acts 2:38 is always being quoted that baptism forgives sins. You can’t jerk one verse out of it’s context and get a true meaning. v37 says they were cut to heart by the message (of the cross) that Peter preached. v41 those who accepted that message were baptized. In simple English they believed on Jesus to forgive their sins not the water in baptism. In Acts 10:43, "All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in HIM, receives FORGIVENESS of sins through His name. v44 'While Peter was still speaking these words, the HOLY SPIRIT came on all who heard the MESSAGE. Cornelius and all present had their sins forgiven, received the Holy Spirit and became born again WITHOUT baptism. Where they later baptized? Yes! but not for the reason you think to have their sins forgiven, they did it as an act of righteousness as Jesus states in Mat 3:15 and as He commands us to do in Mat 28:19 Let me put it another way, if water baptism forgave sins, what reason would there be for Jesus to come to earth and die such a horrible death? He could have called all the apostles and teach them like He did Paul. It’s the Blood of Jesus that frees us from all sins and not the water in baptism Rev 1:5. What I’m saying here is what the apostles taught. It’s not a “new gosple” what you believe is what Roman Catholicism teaches. ED O.
 
Hi po18guy, thanks for your reply. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, it appears to me that every time a Catholic sees the words “water or wash” it automatically means baptism. There isn’t a Scripture in the Bible that states baptism ALONE forgives sins and one becomes born again by it, without something connect to it. Like this Acts 22:16, “And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, CALLING ON HIS NAME.” Acts 2:38 is always being quoted that baptism forgives sins. You can’t jerk one verse out of it’s context and get a true meaning. v37 says they were cut to heart by the message (of the cross) that Peter preached. v41 those who accepted that message were baptized. In simple English they believed on Jesus to forgive their sins not the water in baptism. In Acts 10:43, "All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in HIM, receives FORGIVENESS of sins through His name. v44 'While Peter was still speaking these words, the HOLY SPIRIT came on all who heard the MESSAGE. Cornelius and all present had their sins forgiven, received the Holy Spirit and became born again WITHOUT baptism. Where they later baptized? Yes! but not for the reason you think to have their sins forgiven, they did it as an act of righteousness as Jesus states in Mat 3:15 and as He commands us to do in Mat 28:19 Let me put it another way, if water baptism forgave sins, what reason would there be for Jesus to come to earth and die such a horrible death? He could have called all the apostles and teach them like He did Paul. It’s the Blood of Jesus that frees us from all sins and not the water in baptism Rev 1:5. What I’m saying here is what the apostles taught. It’s not a “new gosple” what you believe is what Roman Catholicism teaches. ED O.
I was cherry picking, because that is how many non-Catholics understand scripture. Plain and simple: regardless of whether baptism does a thing, Jesus commanded it. If you refuse, are you not denying the Christ? If you are not baptized, I fear greatly for your soul and you are in mortal danger! This is Christianity 101, man! Will water baptism somehow condemn you? Show me the verse or the context! This is crazy what you are preaching here!
 
In simple English they believed on Jesus to forgive their sins not the water in baptism.
Let me break this down for you in a very simple manner, Ed. Yes, when adults are baptized they profess to believe on Jesus Christ. Infants have sponsers–but do not think for a second that they do not believe on Jesus Christ just because they cannot talk. Scripture tells us that whole households were baptized–and surely you do not believe that babies are not included with the whole household. Now…let’s look at your little problem with “water”.

Genesis 1-2
In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; **and the spirit of God moved over the waters. **

Now put it all together Ed. We have the Holy Spirit connected with the waters from the very beginning of Scripture. We have multiple passages about the use of water in baptism from the New Testament. We have adults believing and being baptized. We have whole households (including babies) being baptized. And if that is not enough, we have the witness of the earliest Christians and Church Fathers.

That ought to solve your dilemma my friend. 🙂
 
Hi po18guy, thanks for your reply. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, it appears to me that every time a Catholic sees the words “water or wash” it automatically means baptism. There isn’t a Scripture in the Bible that states baptism ALONE forgives sins and one becomes born again by it, without something connect to it. Like this Acts 22:16, “And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, CALLING ON HIS NAME.” Acts 2:38 is always being quoted that baptism forgives sins. You can’t jerk one verse out of it’s context and get a true meaning. v37 says they were cut to heart by the message (of the cross) that Peter preached. v41 those who accepted that message were baptized. In simple English they believed on Jesus to forgive their sins not the water in baptism. In Acts 10:43, "All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in HIM, receives FORGIVENESS of sins through His name. v44 'While Peter was still speaking these words, the HOLY SPIRIT came on all who heard the MESSAGE. Cornelius and all present had their sins forgiven, received the Holy Spirit and became born again WITHOUT baptism. Where they later baptized? Yes! but not for the reason you think to have their sins forgiven, they did it as an act of righteousness as Jesus states in Mat 3:15 and as He commands us to do in Mat 28:19 Let me put it another way, if water baptism forgave sins, what reason would there be for Jesus to come to earth and die such a horrible death? He could have called all the apostles and teach them like He did Paul. It’s the Blood of Jesus that frees us from all sins and not the water in baptism Rev 1:5. What I’m saying here is what the apostles taught. It’s not a “new gosple” what you believe is what Roman Catholicism teaches. ED O.
Now Ed its your turn. We all took our turn and showed you scripture after scripture that proves that A Baby could indeed receive the Power of the Holy Spirit. Now you need to show just one piece of Scripture that says it is forbidden for Babys to be Baptised? Fairs Fair:D
 
Hi Bill, thanks for your reply. Bill Jesus never said, "“unless a man be born again of water” By misquoting Jesus in John 3:5 is how the Catholics get baptism out of that verse.
That was Ed at his worst, but we know better. John chapter 3 does neither start nor end at verse 5. There is verse 7 as well. Note that in verse 7 Jesus says He already SAID “you must be BORN AGAIN”. Where did He say that if not in verse 5?
That verse has nothing to do with baptism. That’s a erroneous quote from the inferior Catholic Duoay Rhiems Bible. ED O.
The “inferior” Catholic “Duoay Riems” Bible? Oh no! I think what is rather inferior is your spelling of the Douay-Rheims Bible.

placido
 
LINE #1 above, If the Bible is not infallible then the Roman Catholic church has no claim to be either since they get their information from the Bible and not in reverse.
You know that the Church existed before the Bible. Bible books were canonized because they reflected what the Church believed “and not in reverse”.
Apparently you don’t understand Pentecost. There were 120 women and men who received the Holy Spirit. Not the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic church. It didn’t exist. The peole are the church
Oh, that sounds like the spirit of Korah: “Enough from you! The whole community, all of them, are holy; the LORD is in their midst. Why then should you set yourselves over the LORD’S congregation?” (Numbers 16:1-3)
That contradicts Scripture my friend . John 1:27, ”As for you, the anointing you received from Him (Holy Spirit) remains in you, and you DO NOT need anyone to TEACH you.”
I don’t like it when people give wrong Bible references. John 1:27 reads: “The one who is coming after me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to untie."

placido
 
There isn’t a Scripture in the Bible that states baptism ALONE forgives sins and one becomes born again by it, without something connect to it.
There is no Scripture that states baptism ALONE forgives sins and no Catholic believes baptism ALONE forgives sins.
No one becomes born again through baptsim apart from Jesus. That is, unfortunately, what you can’t understand. You have the problem of “exclusivism”. Either Jesus or baptism. You can only see things in EITHER black OR white - either/or.

placido
 

Gregory of Nyssa (335-395) was a Christian who became bishop of a little town called Nyssa. Gregory lived in a time of great doctrinal confusion and turmoil. He helped to guide the universal Church through one of its most difficult periods. The Council of Constantinople convened in 381 to face the claims of the heretics who denied the full divinity of Jesus Christ. Gregory was on this council.​

Here is an excerpt from one of Gregory’s sermons:

“Do not dismiss the divine washing. Don’t think of it as something common because it uses mere water. For the power at work is mighty, and wonderful are the things that work by that power.”

"Likewise, the mantle of one of the prophets, a simple goatskin, made Elisha famous throughout the whole world (see 2 Kings 2:8)
The wood of the cross holds saving power for everyone, even though it is, I’m told, a piece of a common tree of little value.
A bramble bush showed the presence of God to Moses (see Ex 3:2)
The remains of Elisha raised a dead man to life (see 2 Kings 13:21)
Clay gave sight to a man who was blind from the womb (see Jn 9:6)

All these, though they were material things without soul or sense, were made instruments for the working of miracles when they received the power from God.

In the same way, water, though it is nothing but water, renews someone to spiritual rebirth, when the grace from above makes it holy."​

Gregory’s sermon teaches us that God has in the past, used objects to give graces (gifts).
And that we should not see water in the divine washing (baptism) as just plain water. But an object that God uses to forgive sins.

You see, Catholics believe that sins are always forgiven BY God. There is just more than one way that God removes sins. ONE of these ways is through water in Baptism.

It is not the only way sins are forgiven in scripture… but it is ONE way Jesus uses.

God bless,
Jules
 
We don’t believe in paedobaptism simply because babies cannot meet the Biblical requirements for baptism.
Obviously you have not been reading this entire thread. By the way, who do you mean by “we”? Most of mainstream protestantism practices infant baptism.
 
Obviously you have not been reading this entire thread. By the way, who do you mean by “we”? Most of mainstream protestantism practices infant baptism.
No, actually, they don’t. Baptists, which are the largest group of Protestants don’t. Virtually all charismatic denoms and non-denom churches don’t.

But it doesn’t matter how many people practice paedo-baptism, babies still do not meet the requirements for baptism and so we will not baptise them.
 
No, actually, they don’t. Baptists, which are the largest group of Protestants don’t. Virtually all charismatic denoms and non-denom churches don’t.

But it doesn’t matter how many people practice paedo-baptism, babies still do not meet the requirements for baptism and so we will not baptise them.
Catholics, Orthodox, Presbyterians, Methodists, some baptists, some non-denominationalists, and others— practice infant baptism. The early reformers practiced infant baptism. You have chosen to throw away the apostolic teaching because your sect of baptists have decided against it some time during the 18th or 19th century. The Bible tells us whole households were baptized. This includes infants. The babies are sponsered for the baptism–but you can count on the fact that they believe in Jesus Christ–even though they cannot talk. The early Church also attests to this apostolic teaching. It is sad that your sect parted ways with the apostolic teaching about 1800 years later. 😦

But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such. (Matt 19:14)
 
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