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kcmekim
Guest
Evidently not, since you had to ask three times.
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hosemonkey
Guest
po18guy
Well-known member
Yes! Good.
Now: How is one to know that he has correct interpretation? I mean, if it’s up to me being lead by some spirit, and my conclusion differs from yours, so what? We both have the same bible, right? Why is your interpretation better than mine, or mine better than yours? Who is the judge?
po18guy
Well-known member
Matthew 5:37 “Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.”
Yes and no are wonderful, decisive responses to many questions in life.
For instance, when I drive up and they ask me “fries with that?”, I rarely answer “This is what the LORD says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover.” While it remains true, it is not responsive to the question.
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hosemonkey
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po18guy
Well-known member
Isaiah 38:1. It’s not an obscure verse to those who read scripture. Have your I.D. ready for when the flashing lights show up.
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guanophore
Guest
How is it that He teaches you one thing, and your neighbor the opposite?
Oh, we know well what it means. These passages were written by those who received the Apostolic Teaching, and were in unity with what they received. They cannot be applied to those who have departed from that Apostolic Teaching, such as the Reformers, and their offspring.
The HS does not lead people in a different direction from what He has already revealed.
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guanophore
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Ah! so you admit that you espouse the material on those fallacious anti-Catholic websites! One has to wonder, why are you here?
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guanophore
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How is that related to Baptism?
No, Tweety, again you are making anti-Catholic comments. You may call yourself Catholic, but you have been led astray by winds.
Of course scripture is profitable, but this verse does NOT say “all I need” is scripture. If that were true, Jesus would not have established a Church for the purpose. These activities that are described here are all functions of PERSONS, not books, however holy.
The teaching of sound doctrine is the duty of the Bishop.
1 Tim 1:3-4
3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine,
The Apostles has ordained Timothy, and is instructing him because to the Bishop is entrusted the Apostolic Authority to teach the correct doctrine.
To another Bishop the Apostle writes:
Titus 2:15
15 Declare these things; exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.
It is to persons that the authority is given to reprove and instruct in right doctrine.
The Apostle explains why God gave authority to the Magesterium(teaching authority of the Church)
Eph 4:11-15
11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.
What are the tasks of these PERSONS?
It is their duty to equip the saints. This means reprove, correct, and instruct. The Holy Scriptures are profitable in the carrying out of these duties. Scripture is not a substitute for the Church, as the Reformers have tried to claim. Even Scripture itself refutes this fact. A person who claims otherwise is not a Catholic.
This is what would have had to happen, if Sola Scriptura were true.
All Scripture in that passage applies to scriptures not accepted by our separated brethren. Paul used the Septuagint.
I am much more interested to learn why you are promoting Protestant theologies on a Catholic forum, and masquerading as a Catholic, when you do not appear to hold the Catholic faith?Maybe you should brush up on Sola Scriptura yoou might lesrn somrthing then again maybe not
I encourage you to go to your profile and edit it. “Lapsed Catholic” might be good, or “ex-Catholic” maybe?
“Rebellious subject of the Roman Pontiff” might work also.
Bible believing Catholics support the Magesterium of the Church, and do not embrace or heresies, or side with heretics against the teachings of the Apostles.
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hosemonkey
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EdOsiecki
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Hi Guanophore, thanks for your reply. But watch this: On post 722 I’m complaining that Po18guy falsely accuses me of baptism being unnecessary.Personally, I don’t think it is 'crazy", just very far from what the Apsotles believed and taught.
You are right about this. There is no need to do anything to make you appear foolish, you take care of that by yourself.
Yes, I think some Catholics might misunderstand the Church teaching on this matter. You are right, it is God who judges souls, and we commit those souls who have died with out baptism into His loving care. However, He clearly taugth that the one who is baptized has their sins washed away (original, and personal) so we obey Him in this matter because it is a sure confidence. It is like all the sacraments. Jesus is not dependent upon confession to heal the soul of sin, but we are sure that He will act in the Sacrament, so we approach Him on the throne of grace with confidence.
Such a statement reveals a deficient understanding of original sin, and of the nature of grace.
All baptized persons are subject to the pope, including you, and all of our separated brethren. There is One Flock, One Shepherd. Most of you are rebellious subjects, though.
When I very clearly stated that Jesus commands it.
Po18guy then uses the circular argument for me to show him where in Scripture water baptism condemns.
Since he knows that there is none. He then states, “This is crazy what you are preaching here.”
My response; I pointed out to him that he twisted what I had said and I asked him the question “and I’m preaching something crazy?
On post 795 Guanophore picks up on it and comes in “ originally post by Ed Osiecki
“and I’m preaching something crazy/”
He then replies: ”Personally, I don’t think it is “crazy” just very far from what the Apostles believed or taught.”
So what in the world is Guanophore talking about. At the very start of this debate , I said Jesus commands us to be baptized. Isn’t that what the Apostles believed and taught? ED O.
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guanophore
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Oh, I assure you, I have been watching for about three pages now.
So what in the world is Guanophore talking about. At the very start of this debate , I said Jesus commands us to be baptized. Isn’t that what the Apostles believed and taught? ED O.
The Apostles baptized infants, and gave this command to their successors, the bishops. To deny this is a departure from the Apostolic Teaching.
You are interpreting Scripture through anti-Catholic lenses.
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hosemonkey
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Oh, I assure you, I have been watching for about three pages now.
I think that Ed has lost track of the thread. Please correct me if I am wrong, but is not the title of the thread “Baptism of babies and infants?” But Ed somehow got it around to say that his interpretation of Scripture says that Baptism has no saving effect. Is that about right? So then the thread devolved into a debate on private interpretation. Is that about right? Ed’s contentions are truly a departure from Apostolic teaching. That’s what private interpretation will do for you.
po18guy
Well-known member
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hosemonkey
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po18guy
Well-known member
I can only imagine how lonely it is, blowing around like a ping pong ball on the waves, while staring longingly at the 1.1 billion clinging to the Rock of Gibraltar that is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Instead of grabbing at the lifelines we throw, he is placing the millstone of private interpretation around his neck The spirit told him it floats, you see…
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EdOsiecki
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po18guy
Well-known member
An open letter to Ed:
We know that you love the Lord. It is obvious from your zeal and persistence. However, we remain mystified by your insistence that you have the truth cornered and it has not appeared to anyone else. We are saddened that you believe that the Holy Spirit leads you, when in fact evil spirits are much more common, especially on this earth, which is the princedom of the evil one. We cannot understand that you have chosen yourself to be a prophet, when scripture warns repeatedly about false prophets, false christs and false teachers. We shudder to think of the judgment you might be bringing upon yourself, since teachers are held to a higher standard than we mere believers (James 3:1). We honestly pray that you will, one fine day, deny yourself and your disposition of anti-Catholicism; will take up your cross and follow Jesus to the Tabernacle, where He resides on this earth. Heck, I pray that you join the Orthodox Church, as you will find more delight in the Lord there than you have ever known. You will find a solidity of faith that is unchanged over the centuries, even over millennia. You will encounter true teaching that traces its hands-on ordination clear back to one of the twelve Apostles. There, your spirit will take its rest, as you will know that you are home.
We pray for you, brother. Amen.
We know that you love the Lord. It is obvious from your zeal and persistence. However, we remain mystified by your insistence that you have the truth cornered and it has not appeared to anyone else. We are saddened that you believe that the Holy Spirit leads you, when in fact evil spirits are much more common, especially on this earth, which is the princedom of the evil one. We cannot understand that you have chosen yourself to be a prophet, when scripture warns repeatedly about false prophets, false christs and false teachers. We shudder to think of the judgment you might be bringing upon yourself, since teachers are held to a higher standard than we mere believers (James 3:1). We honestly pray that you will, one fine day, deny yourself and your disposition of anti-Catholicism; will take up your cross and follow Jesus to the Tabernacle, where He resides on this earth. Heck, I pray that you join the Orthodox Church, as you will find more delight in the Lord there than you have ever known. You will find a solidity of faith that is unchanged over the centuries, even over millennia. You will encounter true teaching that traces its hands-on ordination clear back to one of the twelve Apostles. There, your spirit will take its rest, as you will know that you are home.
We pray for you, brother. Amen.
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guanophore
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Well, the OP is asking “what are the objections” to infant baptism. I think he is making an accurate response when he states that his understanding of scripture is that baptism has no saving effect. His greatest objection to it is that he has not recieved the Apostolic teaching, and he has to extrapolate what he thinks it was because he has been separated from what the Apostles believed and taught, and all he has left is the Holy Writings, and he reads them through the anti-Catholic lens bequethed to him by his spiritual ancestors.
po18guy
Well-known member
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