Baptism Question

[Stephentlig]

Can ‘Roman’ Catholic parents have their children baptized in the eastern Catholic rite?

Pax
Stephen

 

[nickybr38]

I don’t know the official answer but it seems to me the answer would be yes.

 

[Silyosha]

I don’t see why not. It’s still Catholic…this is just my understanding of the subject, though, so don’t take my word for it!

 

[malphono]

The answer is yes, but Canon Law comes into play. One must keep in mind that, just because a child is baptized in one or another Church sui juris, it does not mean that the child becomes part of that Church.

From the CIC

Can. 111 §1. Through the reception of baptism, the child of parents who belong to the Latin Church is enrolled in it, or, if one or the other does not belong to it, both parents have chosen by mutual agreement to have the offspring baptized in the Latin Church. If there is no mutual agreement, however, the child is enrolled in the ritual Church to which the father belongs.

§2. Anyone to be baptized who has completed the fourteenth year of age can freely choose to be baptized in the Latin Church or in another ritual Church sui iuris; in that case, the person belongs to the Church which he or she has chosen.

Can. 112 §1. After the reception of baptism, the following are enrolled in another ritual Church sui iuris:

1/ a person who has obtained permission from the Apostolic See;

2/ a spouse who, at the time of or during marriage, has declared that he or she is transferring to the ritual Church sui iuris of the other spouse; when the marriage has ended, however, the person can freely return to the Latin Church;

3/ before the completion of the fourteenth year of age, the children of those mentioned in nn. 1 and 2 as well as, in a mixed marriage, the children of the Catholic party who has legitimately transferred to another ritual Church; on completion of their fourteenth year, however, they can return to the Latin Church.

§2. The practice, however prolonged, of receiving the sacraments according to the rite of another ritual Church sui iuris does not entail enrollment in that Church.

From the CCEO

Canon 29

1. By virtue of baptism, a child who has not yet completed his fourteenth year of age is enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the Catholic father; or the Church sui iuris of the mother if only the mother is Catholic or if both parents by agreement freely request it, with due regard for particular law established by the Apostolic See.

1. If the child who has not yet completed his fourteenth year is: (1) born of an unwed mother, he is enrolled in the Church sui iuris to which the mother belongs; (2) born of unknown parents, he is to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of those in whose care he has been legitimately committed are enrolled; if it is a case of an adoptive father and mother, 1 should be applied; (3) born of non-baptized parents, the child is to be a member of the Church sui iuris of the one who is responsible for his education in the Catholic faith.

Canon 30

Anyone to be baptized who has completed the fourteenth year of age can freely select any Church sui iuris in which he or she then is enrolled by virtue of baptism received in that same Church, with due regard for particular law established by the Apostolic See.

Canon 31

No one can presume in any way to induce the Christian faithful to transfer to another Church sui iuris.

Canon 32

1. No one can validly transfer to another Church sui iuris without the consent of the Apostolic See.

1. In the case of Christian faithful of an eparchy of a certain Church sui iuris who petition to transfer to another Church sui iuris which has its own eparchy in the same territory, this consent of the Apostolic See is presumed, provided that the eparchial bishops of both eparchies consent to the transfer in writing.

Canon 34

If the parents, or the Catholic spouse in the case of a mixed marriage, transfer to another Church sui iuris, children under fourteen years old by the law itself are enrolled in the same Church; if in a marriage of Catholics only one parent transfers to another Church sui iuris, the children transfer only if both parents consent. Upon completion of the fourteenth year of age, the children can return to the original Church sui iuris.

Canon 37

Every enrollment in a certain Church sui iuris or transfer to another Church sui iuris should be recorded in the baptismal register of the parish where the baptism was celebrated, even, as the case may be, in a Latin parish; if this cannot be done, it is
to be kept by the proper pastor in another document in the archive of the parish of the Church sui iuris of enrollment.

 

[Waiting]

My sister was baptized by a Greek Catholic priest, as the family’s Roman Catholic priest was not available at the time. It was many years ago, and I wasn’t born until a later time, so I don’t have the details, but she wasn’t baptized a second time, so it must have been fine. Actually, I was taught by the nuns that we could go to an Eastern Rite Mass and receive Communion. I did so on one occasion. It’s the same faith.

 

[Stephentlig]

The answer is yes, but Canon Law comes into play. One must keep in mind that, just because a child is baptized in one or another Church sui juris, it does not mean that the child becomes part of that Church.

From the CIC

From the CCEO

You say yes but canon law seems to be saying no?

Could you clarify that a bit more for me?

Pax
Stephen

 

[German_Melkite]

Yes.

Although my wife and I were Roman, both of my sons were baptized in a Melkite Catholic Church. At that time we lived in a different state and were not affiliated with any Roman parish or priest. We were, however, drawn to the Melkite parish and attended there as often as we could.

Both Melkite baptized children remained Roman Catholics by rite, until I formally under went the process of changing rites. At that time, I also had my minor children formally changed to the Melkite Church.

 

[Stephentlig]

Yes.

Although my wife and I were Roman, both of my sons were baptized in a Melkite Catholic Church. At that time we lived in a different state and were not affiliated with any Roman parish or priest. We were, however, drawn to the Melkite parish and attended there as often as we could.

Both Melkite baptized children remained Roman Catholics by rite, until I formally under went the process of changing rites. At that time, I also had my minor children formally changed to the Melkite Church.

So basically. One can give their child the eastern baptism but they remain or are automatically remain in the roman church their parents are in?

 

[German_Melkite]

Yes,
but understand most priests/pastors will not just baptize any child who is carried into the building. There is some need to ensure that parents/child will understand and uphold their sacrament.

In our case we had a four year long relationship with the priest and parish. The priest also wanted a hour meeting with us and with the Godparents to ensure that we understood the commitment that was being made.

But the bottom-line is Catholic sacrament is a Catholic sacrament.

I would suspect that most of the baptisms in our parish are of Roman Catholic children whose Roman Catholic families are regular parishioners in our Melkite Catholic parish.

 

[Stephentlig]

Yes,
but understand most priests/pastors will not just baptize any child who is carried into the building. There is some need to ensure that parents/child will understand and uphold their sacrament.

In our case we had a four year long relationship with the priest and parish. The priest also wanted a hour meeting with us and with the Godparents to ensure that we understood the commitment that was being made.

But the bottom-line is Catholic sacrament is a Catholic sacrament.

I would suspect that most of the baptisms in our parish are of Roman Catholic children whose Roman Catholic families are regular parishioners in our Melkite Catholic parish.

Thank you!!!

I kind of know Archimandrite Fr.Serge here at our local Ukrainian Church in Dublin. I met him once and at the end of the Divine Liturgy he asked me for my e-mail and to keep in touch. So would e-mail me from time to time and let me know when baptisms were on so we could come and experience one. We have not spoken in a while but I suppose I just wanted some information first to see if it was worth asking.

Thanks again!!!

Pax Christi
Stephen

 

[The_Old_Medic]

They could have also been baptized in a Luthern Church, yet be raised as Catholics and they would be fully Catholic. If the Baptism is recognized by the church as being valid, then it did NOT have to have been done in a Roman Catholic Church.

Of course, there would be the question of just why you didn’t have the Baptism done in a Catholic church.

I have a good friend who’s baby was born and was not expected to live more than a few hours. There was no Catholic Priest available, but a Lutheran Minister was in the hospital.

He came up, baptized the baby, and the Roman Catholic Church accepted that baptism as being one of necessity, and they child did not have to do anything to be accepted into the church. (She lived, undergoing several major surgeries in her first year, and is a beautiful young woman today.)

She made her first communion, first reconciliation and was confirmed along with all of her classmates. She is the ONLY birth Catholic in her class, who was not baptized by a Catholic Priest, something that she is very much aware of. He home parish does record the baptism however, just as it does the other Sacraments.

The bottom line is, if there is a valid reason, you can be baptized anywhere, by any one, so long as the correct form is utilized.

 

[Stephentlig]

Hi thanks. I’m not sure my reason is a particularly good one. It is not like the previous poster who was surrounded by none other than the melkite churches.

I just wanted my new born boy to experience the ancient way of Baptism etc etc… something that I feel would be special to him when he is older. BUT please dont take that like I’m saying the roman rite is not special. All baptisms are special whether they are done in a church or not done in a church but by a priest or lay person in any situation.

At the end of the day Baptism is Baptism and is a big deal and very holy.

Pax Christi
Stephen

 

[ConstantineTG]

They could have also been baptized in a Luthern Church, yet be raised as Catholics and they would be fully Catholic. If the Baptism is recognized by the church as being valid, then it did NOT have to have been done in a Roman Catholic Church.

Under normal circumstances, it should be done in a Catholic church or chapel.

*Can. 857 §1. Apart from a case of necessity, the proper place of baptism is a church or oratory.

§2. As a rule an adult is to be baptized in his or her parish church and an infant in the parish church of the parents unless a just cause suggests otherwise.*

You can play with semantics and say that Canon Law just says “church” and not “Catholic church”, but I wouldn’t understand why the Catholic Church’s Canon Law will even suggest its okay under normal circumstances to baptize a person coming into the Catholic Church anywhere else than a Catholic church.

Not also there is nothing mentioned in this section about having it at a church of your Ritual Church.

Of course, there would be the question of just why you didn’t have the Baptism done in a Catholic church.

I have a good friend who’s baby was born and was not expected to live more than a few hours. There was no Catholic Priest available, but a Lutheran Minister was in the hospital.

He came up, baptized the baby, and the Roman Catholic Church accepted that baptism as being one of necessity, and they child did not have to do anything to be accepted into the church. (She lived, undergoing several major surgeries in her first year, and is a beautiful young woman today.)

She made her first communion, first reconciliation and was confirmed along with all of her classmates. She is the ONLY birth Catholic in her class, who was not baptized by a Catholic Priest, something that she is very much aware of. He home parish does record the baptism however, just as it does the other Sacraments.

That is because its a case of necessity. Even a lay person could have performed the baptism. My son was going into surgery at 5-days old and I called for a priest. But I was fully aware of what to do and surgery time came and no priest came, I would have baptized him myself.

Now, if there was no other urgent reason for baptism, then the baptism should be done by a Catholic clergy (Bishop, Deacon, Priest) inside a Catholic church (regardless of Rite).

The bottom line is, if there is a valid reason, you can be baptized anywhere, by any one, so long as the correct form is utilized.

The term the Church uses is “cases of necessity”, meaning the baptism has to take place right there and then for the good of the soul.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hi thanks. I’m not sure my reason is a particularly good one. It is not like the previous poster who was surrounded by none other than the melkite churches.

I just wanted my new born boy to experience the ancient way of Baptism etc etc… something that I feel would be special to him when he is older. BUT please dont take that like I’m saying the roman rite is not special. All baptisms are special whether they are done in a church or not done in a church but by a priest or lay person in any situation.

At the end of the day Baptism is Baptism and is a big deal and very holy.

Pax Christi
Stephen

You are seeking a Catholic baptism and that is fine. Its done by a Catholic priest in a Catholic parish, everything falls within Canon Law. Now normally you should go to the priest of the parish you regularly worship in. If you are a Roman Catholic who now regularly goes to a Ruthenian or Ukrainian or Melkite parish, then you go to that parish. In your case you don’t go there normally but know the priest, and I believe the priest will accept your request to baptize your child.

Another interesting story about my son. I picked a date for his baptism even before he was born. All my relatives do not live here in Canada, but are flying in for the baptism. So we have tickets booked and everything. Suddenly my RC priest (was still going to an RC parish last year) took 2 weeks off. So I had to find another priest. I talked to our substitute priest who then I found out was actually a Chaldean priest who has bi-ritual faculties and he celebrates the Roman Mass as a substitute around the Archdiocese. He told me he doesn’t know the Roman Baptismal Rite and only the Chaldean Rite, but he said if I can’t find a RC priest then he will come to our parish and Baptize my son. At that time I was still only reading about Eastern Churches so I was a bit hesitant. If it happened today, I would have gladly asked for the Chaldean Rite, although I imagine it would shock my parents a bit that the whole Baptismal Rite is in Aramaic

 

[Hesychios]

but understand most priests/pastors will not just baptize any child who is carried into the building. There is some need to ensure that parents/child will understand and uphold their sacrament.

Amen to that.

This past weekend I attended a baptism with a non-practicing Protestant as a “Non-Catholic Witness” instead of a Godfather.

I couldn’t believe it.

He looked good in a suit, though.

In our case we had a four year long relationship with the priest and parish. The priest also wanted a hour meeting with us and with the Godparents to ensure that we understood the commitment that was being made.

I am glad you mentioned this. In the eastern tradition the baptism is very much a community affair, I think usually in conjunction with a Divine Liturgy. I suppose that was your experience as well.

But the bottom-line is Catholic sacrament is a Catholic sacrament.

I won’t argue the point.

But I think it inappropriate for someone to desire a boutique setting to baptize the child. Whenever possible the children should be baptized into the worship community which will be their own indefinitely. At least that’s how I see it.

So, in that case, this is quite a bit different than showing up on a Sunday for Eucharist. Regular participation and membership in a parish is desirable.

I would suspect that most of the baptisms in our parish are of Roman Catholic children whose Roman Catholic families are regular parishioners in our Melkite Catholic parish.

In some places that is extremely common. In the region I live in the canonical Melkites, Ukrainians and Ruthenians are more likely to regularly be in a Latin parish, and the eastern parishes will have a significant number of Latin rite Catholics.

 

[Vico]

Can ‘Roman’ Catholic parents have their children baptized in the eastern Catholic rite?

Pax
Stephen

If the children are at least age 14 then they can choose their Church so they can be baptised in an eastern Catholic Church according to their ritual.

The norm for a Latin Catholic couple’s infant is to be baptised with the Latin baptism ritual. When the faculty is granted from the Latin Church to the Eastern presbyter or ordinary they can then use the Latin ritual. But the Eastern presbyter or ordinary is to follow the ritual of his own Church normally. When the Eastern presbyter baptises a Latin Catholic couple’s infant, they do not give chrismation or first communion, in keeping with the prescriptions of the Latin Church. There are exceptions for grave situations, of course. Also if the couple is of two different Catholic Churches, then there are different rules that can apply for infant baptism.

 

[5Loaves]

I just wanted my new born boy to experience the ancient way of Baptism etc etc…
Stephen

Stephen-
Does this sentence mean you’re a new father? If so, congratulations! God grant him many years!
-ML

 

[Stephentlig]

Stephen-
Does this sentence mean you’re a new father? If so, congratulations! God grant him many years!
-ML

Yes it does and thank you!!! My Wife is due at the end of March this year early april. So I was thinkin about baptisms and eventually ended up here with my question. Thought I would get to know beforehand what the requirements were, regarding baptism in the eastern rite.

Pax
Stephen

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yes it does and thank you!!! My Wife is due at the end of March this year early april. So I was thinkin about baptisms and eventually ended up here with my question. Thought I would get to know beforehand what the requirements were, regarding baptism in the eastern rite.

Pax
Stephen

I was in this same exact boat exactly one year ago. Congratulations on your wonderful blessing.

 

[jmcrae]

So basically. One can give their child the eastern baptism but they remain or are automatically remain in the roman church their parents are in?

Minor children are considered to be of the same Rite as their father.