Baptism

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oudave:
I’m not talking about what the baptist believe, they dont believe baptism is escential for salvation. I do. so please dont toss baptist doctrine at me, it wont stick. I believe what the scriptures say, so should you.
In Him, Dave.
Then why in the world aren’t you Catholic 🙂
 
Our detractors act like they are reading out of the Necronomicon and making sure we don’t miss any aspect of the “spell” of baptism. Another inevitability when one has hitched his wagon to the un-Biblical and incoherent Bible-alone theory
Just out of curiousity, do you also practice necrophelia? How about
Here in lies two of the problems. Necro=dead; mancion only the devil knows since this cannot be researched.
Necro mancy=praying and to/with dead people. Necro+phelia=sex with dead people and children. Do you not know that necro + anything equals abomination in GOD’S site?

Thank you for letting us be aware of what we are dealing with here.
I would advise anyone visting here; please find a Christian site that can help you.
Contact me via e-mail and I will share with you the love of Jsus.
That is all.
 
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TheGarg:
Then why in the world aren’t you Catholic
Because like me, he has found the truth in the Scriptures, and realizes the RCC is not everything they proclaim to be; Much to our hurt and let down.

Now I need to ask: Should you place your trust in a church or in the Living God Who created youl?
 
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Heartbroke:
Because like me, he has found the truth in the Scriptures, and realizes the RCC is not everything they proclaim to be; Much to our hurt and let down.

Now I need to ask: Should you place your trust in a church or in the Living God Who created youl?
Without the Church who gave me the Scriptures, how would I know the Living God?

Whether you know it or not, everything you know about salvation, about Christ, has come to you because the Catholic Church has kept the faith for 2000 years. Even those who disbelieve everything except Scripture owe their knowledge of Scripture to the Catholic Church.

This thread started with an attack on the Catholic teaching concerning Baptism based on a private interpretation of Scripture. We accept infant Baptism because the Apostles taught it: catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0201frs.asp
 
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oudave:
The only problem is, is that the church ‘‘groups’’ that you have mentioned have changed the scriptures just like the catholic church has. Do you know that it wasnt until Nov 1, 1950 that pope pius XII declared the catholic church officially believed that Mary was taken to Heaven and did not die? scripture says that Enoch and Elijah were taken up to heaven. Now if Christs own Mother had been taken up as well, dont you think God would have told us through his word?
In Him, Dave.
Just curiouis, Dave. If Scripture has been changed, how do you know your Bible is accurate?

BTW the Apostolic Constitution which promulgated the Assumption of Our Lady as Dogma nowhere says that she did not die. Nor does it say HOW she was assumed into Heaven. We use Elijah sometimes to demonstrate how it is possible for someone who is not God to be taken to Heaven, but nowhere is there any dogmatic statement of how Mary was assumed into Heaven.
 
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oudave:
The only problem is, is that the church ‘‘groups’’ that you have mentioned have changed the scriptures just like the catholic church has. Do you know that it wasnt until Nov 1, 1950 that pope pius XII declared the catholic church officially believed that Mary was taken to Heaven and did not die? scripture says that Enoch and Elijah were taken up to heaven. Now if Christs own Mother had been taken up as well, dont you think God would have told us through his word?
In Him, Dave.
Again you don’t quite have your facts straight. First off the “Assumption of Mary” was known in the early Church and is documented as far back as the 400’s.

Second is that the Catholic Church has never declared that Mary did or didn’t die.

You seem to forget that the Word of God is Christ Himself, who speaks through His Church. So yes, God did in fact tell us this through His Word!
 
oudave,

I do believe what the scriptures say. I just don’t believe what you say the Scriptures say. I instead agree with that Protestant scholar on the word “baptism.” He’s got a Doctorate of Divinity, do you? He says that you are incorrect. Unless you think you are infallible, your gonna have to be more convincing than thrusting your commentary at us as if IT were the Word of God.

Did you know that Jews baptize infants, as they did prior to the advent of Christianity? Christian baptism in the first century, like Jewish baptism, baptized entire households. I believe Scritpure and not your non-Scriptural assertion that some mythical age of reason must be attained prior to one validly receiving baptism. It’s not in Scripture, its just a product of ‘your’ tradition … a tradition of men. :eek:
 
oudave,
Do you know that it wasnt until Nov 1, 1950 that pope pius XII declared the catholic church officially believed that Mary was taken to Heaven and did not die?
Ummmmm… no he didn’t. He says nothing regarding Mary having not died. If you ever were a Catholic (and I doubt you were), then you were a poorly educated Catholic, just as you are now a poorly educated Protestant.

If you would like to know more about the Assumption of Mary, perhaps reading a book by **Protestant **author and pastor, Rev. Charles Dickson’s *A Protestant Pastor Looks at Mary (Our Sunday Visitor, 1996). *He describes the Assumption of Mary as a feast that “dates from the 4th century.” (pg. 68). He states, "This feast [of the Assumption] was incidentally recommended by Martin Luther as a continuing evidence of the evangelical catholic faith." (pg. 69).

Furthermore, he states: "Contrary to what many non-Catholics assume without due investigation, Marian feasts (1) have a biblical basis, (2) are ancient in origin, (3) point us to Christ, and (4) glorify the Holy Trinity." (p. 66)
 
oudave,
There was a question on infant Baptism, my point was that infants are to young to repent.
The point that seems to have zoomed right by you is that Jesus did not need repentence, yet still was baptized. Scripture indicates, therefore, that repentence is absolutely needed as a prerequisite to baptism for those who need to and can repent of past personal sins. Yet, for those who need not repent of past personal sins (e.g., Jesus, infants), no repentence is demanded prior to baptism.

What is needed is faith. But God has and does bless, sanctify, heal and forgive the sins of some due to the faithfulness of others (eg. paralytic healed and forgiven due to the faith of his friends). So, the healing regeneration of infant baptism is due to of the faith of others. Nothing in Scripture is contrary to this teaching. If you have something more than your incorrect interpretation of Scripture, a tradition of men that nowhere existed until the middle ages, rejected even by other learned Protestants, then please provide us something more compelling. Perhaps the chapter and verse where infant baptism is prohibited, or where the baptism of St. Paul, having been accomplished in a house while standing up is congruent with Baptism by immersion only?
 
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oudave:
Im not saying Jesus had to repent, nor was he here to repent. There was a question on infant Baptism, my point was that infants are to young to repent. Infants are also to young to understand the commitment it takes to live as a Christian.
Just tell us what church you want us to attend!
Is it the Churches of Christ?
If so, which flavor?
 
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oudave:
Im not saying Jesus had to repent, nor was he here to repent. There was a question on infant Baptism, my point was that infants are to young to repent. Infants are also to young to understand the commitment it takes to live as a Christian.
Q: So, before I was able to read or understand Scripture, was I saved or not?
Q:If I have a retarded child not able to understand Scripture or even to read it, are they saved or not; Perfect or not?
Q: Why must there be 27 and not 25 or 28 books in your NT?
Q. If I wanted to know infallibly that Hebrews was required as part of the NT Books, how would you prove so?
Q. Do you believe in the effects of Original sin on the soul of man? If so, what are they?
Q. Do you believe in the effects of Original Sin on the body of man?
Q. Was an Isrealite baby in the covenant before circumcision?
Q. If a baby has no understanding and is sinless, why did he have to be circumcised on the 8th day? What purpose did it serve?
Q. Are the following Prophecies?
Is 52:15 He shall sprinkle many nations, kings shall shut their mouth at him: for they to whom it was not told of him, have seen: and they that heard not, have beheld.
Ezechiel 36:25 And I will pour upon you clean water, and you shall be cleansed from all your filthiness, and I will cleanse you from all your idols.(Just by pouring water?)
Q. If they are prophecies, how are they being fulfilled in your NT church?
For a True COC member these questions should be a piece of cake.
 
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Heartbroke:
Just out of curiousity, do you also practice necrophelia? How about
Here in lies two of the problems. **Necro=**dead; mancion only the devil knows since this cannot be researched.
Necro mancy=praying and to/with dead people. Necro+phelia=sex with dead people and children. Do you not know that necro + anything equals abomination in GOD’S site?
Thank you for letting us be aware of what we are dealing with here.
I would advise anyone visting here; please find a Christian site that can help you.
Contact me via e-mail and I will share with you the love of Jsus.
That is all.
Good the Moderators got you:D Only a sick,sick mind would come up with that.God Bless
 
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oudave:
No, God doesnt reject them. When you were 4 and broke your neighbors window did they arrest you for vandelism? No, because you were not of responsible age.
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif
I appreciate your responce to my question about babies who die before they’ve accepted Christ. But you answered based on reasoning, not on scripture–that’s very Catholic of you.

Church Militant made several points that you may wish to pray about as you read scripture. Circumcision eight days after birth!!! God requested in the Old Testament that a sign of His covenant be carved into the very flesh of Jewish boy babies’ very private parts. Did those boy babies have a say in that?

I do want to add my personal thanks for your concern over the salvation of my soul and the soul of my fellow Catholics. Please keep us in your prayers. I pray that Christ Jesus rewards you for your efforts with a fuller understanding of the Catholic Church.
 
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oudave:
No, God doesnt reject them. When you were 4 and broke your neighbors window did they arrest you for vandelism? No, because you were not of responsible age. Read
Mat 3:11-17.
Are you saying that ALL human babies were Imaculately Conceived?? By natural birth, they need not be Born Again? They are try Saints from the womb?
They are exempt from:
John 3 :3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
 
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oudave:
No, God doesnt reject them. When you were 4 and broke your neighbors window did they arrest you for vandelism? No, because you were not of responsible age. Read
Mat 3:11-17.
Are you saying that ALL human babies were Imaculately Conceived?? By natural birth, they need not be Born Again? They are true Saints from the womb?
They are exempt from:
John 3 :3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
 
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oudave:
No, God doesnt reject them. When you were 4 and broke your neighbors window did they arrest you for vandelism? No, because you were not of responsible age. Read
Mat 3:11-17.
Are you saying that ALL human babies were Immaculately Conceived?? By natural birth, they need not be Born Again? They are true Saints from the womb?
Doesn’t Romans say ALL have sinned?
Q. Is a baby born to a Buddist a Christian, and Fit for The Kingdom of God?
They are exempt from:
John 3 :3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
ROM16:16 All the churches of Christ SALUTE you (the Roman Church). and still do.
 
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Heartbroke:
Because like me, he has found the truth in the Scriptures, and realizes the RCC is not everything they proclaim to be; Much to our hurt and let down.

Now I need to ask: Should you place your trust in a church or in the Living God Who created youl?
It is because I place my trust in the Living God, Jesus Christ, that I submit and obey to His Church that He founded and gave all His authority to.

Have you forgotten His Words…
Matthew 16:18-19 (niv, so you will feel more comfortable)
Code:
18"And I tell you that you are Peter,[a](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016:18-19;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23691a)] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades**("http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016:18-19;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23691b")] will not overcome it.[c](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016:18-19;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23691c)]   19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016:18-19;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23692d)] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016:18-19;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23692e)] loosed in heaven.”
So I challenge you, IF you really love your Lord and Savior, love His Church, The Catholic Church, and serve Her well. Do not be victim to the Lies spawned by a heretic. Follow His word and Obey His Church!!
Amen I say to you!

Peace of the Lord be with you!
 
Could someone please explain to me why baptism is essential to salvation?

If you’re not baptized, does that mean you’re condemned to hell?

Josiah
 
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