Baptisms without joining the Church

[steve-b]

This is rather a complicated story but the basics of is this:

My son is happy to be Baptised. He is doing this for his mother, mostly, but not totally. He is 25 and about to embark on a part of life that will not afford him much spiritual nourishment. It might last a long time.

He is VERY shy, will not attend RCIA or talk to a priest. He grew up Catholic. (Long story as to why he is not baptised).
Mom wants him baptised because of the cleansing of Original Sin. Both he and mom are happy to let the rest come in time
Is there any chance we could get a priest to baptise him only, with no intention (but hope) to actually join the Church?

Just an observation,

What you describe, lacks the informed purpose and intent one should have for seeking and being baptized. It’s being treated more as magic and NOT the sacrament it is. In essence, it’s saying, don’t bother me with particulars, and what baptism means and does, NOR what I’m expected to do as a result, I’ll just do this thing to please mom. Maybe something will happen in the future and maybe it won’t, so let’s do this thing.

That’s how it looks.

 

[HeDa]

The son is 25 years of age and therefor an adult and should be met as an adult. If an adult is baptised in the Catholic Church they will be taught the faith before so that they will understand what they agree upon when saying yes to the baptism vows. It is a profession of faith which we will follow until our last breath.

Children are taught for 2 years before receiving First Holy Communion and then at least another 2 years before the Sacrament of Confirmation. They renew their baptism vows before each of these sacraments.

When you are baptised you become an official member of that church in which the baptism takes place and also the Body of Christ.

Ask the son if he wants the priest or deacon to come to his home. That is an option for first contact especially if the son feels safe at home.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Except I sometimes read posters on CAF saying someone baptized Catholic is not a Catholic.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Those posters are wrong.

 

[guanophore]

Won’t it be good for son to actually join the church and overcome his shyness? You can explain the situation to a priest and they will find someone who is good with children.

Yes, except that I think he is 25 and moving away from home.

But you do know your son will one day enter the world on his own and everything is just preparation for when that happens.

It sounds like the preparation ship has already sailed.

On the other hand, I find it completely unjustifiable to place a greater burden on a person seeking baptism then Philip placed on the Ethiopian eunuch. If the original poster is not able to take his son to a Catholic Church to be baptized under the circumstances described, well let’s just say I’m more than comfortable with my non denominational protestantism.

We don’t know what Phillip enjoined the eunuch to do. Maybe the same as Paul was directed to do, which was to receive the teaching of the church. The Church has grown a great deal since Philip encountered the Eunuch on the road. Those seeking baptism as adults take upon themselves the responsibility for their faith formation.

 

[guanophore]

Except I sometimes read posters on CAF saying someone baptized Catholic is not a Catholic.

Some persons baptized Catholic have lost their Catholicity. I have also heard priests say “once a Catholic, always a Catholic”, so that even a person who gets re-baptized can’t wash off their Catholicism!

 

[Mary888]

OMG I completely skipped the part about being 25.
In that case I pray the OP convinces her son to receive baptism and join RCIA and confess to a priest and open up what he believes, results may be surprising. Religion needn’t be a lonely spot in the world.
And also it is entirely his decision to make and I pray he takes the wisest one.

 

[PLeeD]

We don’t know what Phillip enjoined the eunuch to do. Maybe the same as Paul was directed to do, which was to receive the teaching of the church. The Church has grown a great deal since Philip encountered the Eunuch on the road. Those seeking baptism as adults take upon themselves the responsibility for their faith formation.

But we do know that over what seems like the course of an afternoon, the eunuch was able to profess a belief in Christ, and Phillip was able to baptize him.

It sounds like the OP’s son professes a belief in Christ. Nothing else should stand in the way to him being baptized. Especially not given whatever extraordinary circumstance is causing the time crunch on the event.

Otherwise, it sounds like the Catholic church is placing a barrier, standing in the way, between his son and Jesus

 

[Sy_Noe]

If a person does not actually want to be a member of the Church, then the person would be asking for the Sacrament for the wrong reasons.

Since baptism is the beginning, there is no expectation that one get “beyond” it at the outset. It is understood that everyone will grow in faith after baptism.

Even if he never gets to a point of being active in the Church community, or wants to talk about his faith, he will become part of the Church when he is baptized.

All trintiarian baptisms are accepted as valid by the Catholic Church.

Sometimes as infants grow, they realize they didn’t want to become a member.

And what if they don’t grow into the faith?

Yet sometimes I’ve seen Catholics say on a forum such as CAF that if a baptized Catholic is not active or dissents from certain teaching, they are not a Catholic.

I was wondering since Trinitarian baptisms are accepted, why wouldn’t a solution to the OP’s problem be baptism elsewhere.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Those posters are wrong.

In that case they cause confusion to those here trying to learn the faith.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Sy_Noe:

Except I sometimes read posters on CAF saying someone baptized Catholic is not a Catholic.

Some persons baptized Catholic have lost their Catholicity. I have also heard priests say “once a Catholic, always a Catholic”, so that even a person who gets re-baptized can’t wash off their Catholicism!

Yes I recall a priest who was part of the old format’s “Ask an Apologist” section, Fr Charles Grondin, say OCAC. I had to correct others frequently with his answer to this.

 

[PLeeD]

I was wondering since Trinitarian baptisms are accepted, why wouldn’t a solution to the OP’s problem be baptism elsewhere.

I suspect that despite valid trinitarian baptisms being accepted, mom won’t be satisfied unless a priest does it.

If the priest won’t perform the baptism maybe the OP can ask if the priest can suggest a respected local Protestant pastor to perform the baptism.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I suspect that despite valid trinitarian baptisms being accepted, mom won’t be satisfied unless a priest does it.

If the priest won’t perform the baptism maybe the OP can ask if the priest can suggest a respected local Protestant pastor to perform the baptism.

I understand but if mom wants her son baptized and she accepts Church teaching on the matter, I would think that would be a better option for her and her son than no baptism at all.

That is a good idea. There are probably plenty of Protestant pastors who would be willing.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Adult child grew up “Catholic” but was not baptized.

Now, son is embarking on a new chapter of life, mom is afraid and wants him to be baptized. Adult son is not interested in the Church.

I’m guessing that he agrees to make mom happy. Thing is, baptism is one time. After that, unless he is some sort of literal saint, the young man will commit sin. What happens then?

Advice to “just become Protestant” is not really the best advice.

 

[PLeeD]

We don’t know what Phillip enjoined the eunuch to do…

Maybe the same as Paul was directed to do, which was to receive the teaching of the church.

The Church has grown a great deal since Philip encountered the Eunuch on the road. Those seeking baptism as adults take upon themselves the responsibility for their faith formation.

I just re-read the Acts 9 and 22 accounts of Paul’s conversion. Neither account describes substantial instruction prior to Paul’s baptism.

The entire account from Acts 9:

17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house. And laying his hands upon him, he said: Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus hath sent me, he that appeared to thee in the way as thou camest; that thou mayest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and rising up, he was baptized.

And from Acts 22:

13 Coming to me, and standing by me, said to me: Brother Saul, look up. And I the same hour looked upon him.

14 But he said: The God of our fathers hath preordained thee that thou shouldst know his will, and see the Just One, and shouldst hear the voice from his mouth.

15 For thou shalt be his witness to all men, of those things which thou hast seen and heard.

16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.

I really can’t politely say how inappropriate it is for the Catholic church to place a barrier, refusing to baptise, this young man who has been raised in the Catholic church. By his father’s account, he “loves” the church.

And, in this case, only a brood of vipers would suggest that this young man is not worthy of baptism.

To the father of the young man, as Ananias said to Paul, “And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name”!

[EDIT: Actually, as much as some posters here might wish it, I’m not sure the Catholic church would refuse to baptise the young man. I’m confident that any reasonable priest would be happy to.]

 

[steve-b]

petra22:

Jesus said unless you are born again of water and the spirit you will not enter heaven.

That is not the ONLY thing He said.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 2 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 1 ARTICLE 1

God is not bound by the Sacraments, we are. He can save whoever He wants, however He likes.

While true,

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

If a baptized person commits mortal sin and dies in that sin Baptism won’t save him.

 

[PLeeD]

If a baptized person commits mortal sin and dies in that sin Baptism won’t save him.

Sorry, that will be decided by Jesus. Not by you, and not by the Catholic Church.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

If a baptized person commits mortal sin and dies in that sin Baptism won’t save him.

Sorry, that will be decided by Jesus. Not by you, and not by the Catholic Church.

glad you brought that point up

Taking this in steps

The following are mortal sins. That is a given, considering the consequences if one dies in them. Said in different ways, bottom line, they go to hell if/when they die in these sins.

By definition, Paul is writing to the Church. They who Paul is writing to then are all by definition, baptized.

Do you see the consequences? The HS is inspiring Paul to write the following.

For space I shortened passages, and didn’t post all the passages I could post. BTW open the links

Titus 3:10-11 Douay-Rheims Bible, Titus Chapter 3 Reject a heretical (αἱρετικὸν )man after a first and second warning, 11knowing that such a man is )perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

Ephesians 5:3-5 Douay-Rheims Bible, Ephesians Chapter 5 fornication, covetousness……5 Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Hebrews 10:23-27 # SEARCH heb 10
missing Eucharist deliberately on Sunday, no sacrifice for sin for THEM but a fiery judgement that consumes the adversaries of God.

Galatians 5: 19 - 21 # SEARCH gal 5 sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions (διχοστασίαι ), http://bibleapps.com/greek/1370.htm factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, will not inherit heaven

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Douay-Rheims Bible, 1 Corinthians Chapter 6 no sexually immoral (πόρνοι ), nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders ( ἀρσενοκοῖται ), 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

etc etc etc

IOW they go to hell if one dies in these sins

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

Mortal and Venial Sin?

The most common Bible verse used against the very Catholic and very biblical doctrines concerning mortal and venial sin is James 2:10-11: For whoever keeps the...

www.catholic.com

If he is going to accept baptism and not practice the other sacraments he is putting himself in severe danger.

"What Does the Bible Have to Say?

Matt. 5:19:

Whoever then relaxes (breaks) one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Our Lord here teaches that there are “least commandments” a person can break and even teach others to do so yet still remain “in the kingdom of heaven.” That is both a good definition of venial sin and perfectly in line with paragraph 1863 of the Catechism. Then, Jesus goes on to warn us in no uncertain terms that there are other sins that will take us to hell—if we do not repent, of course. For example, in Matt. 5: 22, Jesus says, “… whoever says ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell of fire.” In verses 28-29, he says:

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

Clearly Jesus teaches there are some sins that will separate us from God for all eternity and some that will not–mortal and venial sin."

 

[guanophore]

But we do know that over what seems like the course of an afternoon, the eunuch was able to profess a belief in Christ, and Phillip was able to baptize him.

It sounds like the OP’s son professes a belief in Christ. Nothing else should stand in the way to him being baptized. Especially not given whatever extraordinary circumstance is causing the time crunch on the event.

Otherwise, it sounds like the Catholic church is placing a barrier, standing in the way, between his son and Jesus

I see your point, of course. There are extraordinary circumstances that don’t require the level of catechesis that applies to most adults. The Church does not want to put any barriers, and in fact, no human can place a barrier between Jesus and a person who believes in Him. Meanwhile, the Church is called to “make disciples, baptizing them…”, so is obligated to ensure that those entering the sacrament have clarity on the responsibilities they enter with it.

I understand but if mom wants her son baptized and she accepts Church teaching on the matter, I would think that would be a better option for her and her son than no baptism at all.

If it is true that mom wants the priest to do the baptism, then does that say that mom is more invested in her adult son receiving the sacrament than the son?

Adult child grew up “Catholic” but was not baptized.

Now, son is embarking on a new chapter of life, mom is afraid and wants him to be baptized. Adult son is not interested in the Church.

I’m guessing that he agrees to make mom happy. Thing is, baptism is one time. After that, unless he is some sort of literal saint, the young man will commit sin. What happens then?

Advice to “just become Protestant” is not really the best advice.

No one is advising that the candidate “just become Protestant”. What is being said is that any Trinitarian baptism is considered valid, therefore, one need not receive it in their local Catholic parish.

One cannot help but wonder how the son was “raised Catholic” without getting baptized, but perhaps there is a sense of parental responsibility to finally make it happen?