Baptist says we aren't "biblical".

[LegoGE1947]

Originally Posted by LegoGE1947
As we all know, if the KJV is good enough for Apostle Paul, it should be good enough for us

sallybutler’s problem about LegoGE1947’s post quoted above may be the same as mine. Let me express my problem as: How can a man of the first century AD pass judgment as “good enough” on the work of another human being who was to be born centuries after his death? In other words: How did it happen that St. Paul (a man who lived during the first century AD) be able to evaluate the KJV and say that it was good enough? I can say with full certainty that the grandfather of King James of England was not yet born when St. Paul died.
The truth is those who champion the KJV and say that Catholics are not biblical are exposing themselves to be not biblical because the KJV itself is never appearing in any the of the original manuscripts of the Bible.

I was saying this sarcastically. There are some Protestants who do not recognize any other version of the Bible, Catholic or not, except the KJV. Yes I know the KJV was not around for the apostles and that they didn’t speak or write in Shakespearian English. Was only making a little humor. Thanks and God bless!

 

[JRKH]

The worst part was last month I found out I have breast cancer. My Baptist friend said that all the ladies in the bible study were being attacked by satan and that she was having trouble at her job. She also said cancer was caused by forgiveness in my heart.

You are in my prayers for your cancer.
While I don’t doubt that this woman believes what she is saying, as others have pointed out, it is very primitive and can be shown to be false through Jesus own words. In fact such thinking is more harmful than helpful. It sets up an opposition within when what you need is peace. It makes one think negatively (what haven’t I forgiven) instead of simply immersing one’s self in God’s Love.
Jesus does say that disease is not from sin but rather it is an opportunity to see God’s works made manifest in him. So it should with all of us. That such things that frighten those who are of this world are of little consequence to us for we know where we are headed. Our sufferings are then turned to God’s Glory and carried in His service.
These are things that your friend will not be able to understand.

Please tell me how I can defend my Catholic faith. I don’t care that she used me to fill her quota. But I want to leave this making sure she knows a thing or two about our treasured faith.

This can be very difficult with the more fundamental evangelical types. The main reason is that the Catholic Church is so rich in it’s spirituality that it does not lend itself to the kind of “sound-bite” discussions that most evangelicals favor.
They have demonstrated that their minds are basically closed to any serious discussion by what they have said to you such as:
Her husband jokingly told me Catholics were going to burn in hell. I’m not an apologist, they were frightening me. Every time I shared something about my Catholic faith, they would say it wasn’t biblical.
At this point the best thing you can do is to live your Catholic life as well as you can. Remember that we are built upon the rock. She can do no more than crash against that rock, for she will never move it or wear it down.

One thing I will suggest - as it relates to the cancer and to demonstrate to this woman the depth and certainty of your faith - is to bear this humbly and as God’s will. Demonstrate to this woman through your actions that you do not see this thing as a punishment (why me) but as an opportunity to grow ever deeper in your relationship with God. You have already been given one bible verse to show the error of her position, here is another…Job…after all that was done, undeservedly - to this righteous man, He responded, “the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.” (Job 1:21)

Something else you can do - as regards to the “it ain’t biblical” argument is to get a hold of a book like “Where is That in the Bible” or “Answer Me This”. These books give good arguments for some of the protestant objections.

Peace
James

 

[Barbkw]

The worst part was last month I found out I have breast cancer. She also said cancer was caused by unforgivness in my heart.
Jen

Jen,

I’ll also be praying for you throughout your battle against cancer.

This Baptist woman has a primitive view of the cause of illnesses. I’m sorry you had to hear such nonsense in your time of need.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Many Baptists (and too many Catholics) don’t have a clue about where we got the Bible. I certainly didn’t! And they don’t know that the New Testament, which they misinterpret, consists of 27 of the Catholic Church’s own writings.

You can buy your Baptist friends a little book titled Where We Got the Bible, Our Debt to the Catholic Church, by Henry G. Graham, available from Catholic Answers and Amazon. And it’s online here:

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/wbible.htm

The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ in A.D. 33 in Jerusalem. The first Baptists were founded by John Smyth in Amsterdam in 1607. The Catholic Church is God-made. The Baptist organizations are all man-made. There are hundreds of Baptist denominations teaching different doctrines, based on yet another (mis)interpretation of the same incomplete Bible cut by Martin Luther. Which one do your friends claim is true?

Christianity wasn’t founded on the Bible, as Protestants would have you believe. It was founded on the Church established by Christ for the salvation of the world. The Catholic Faith comes to us from the lips of the Apostles.

Christ founded the Church, and the Church produced the Bible. The NT was written by members of the Church during the last 50 years of so of the first century. At the end of the fourth century, the Church selected 27 of her own writings, canonized them, and named them the New Testament. At the same time, the Church canonized the 46 writings she inherited from Jesus and the Apostles and named them the Old Testament. Her entire collection of sacred Scripture she named tá Biblia, the Bible – which means the Books.

The Catholic religion is not based on the Bible, but on the teaching of Chirst and the Apostles. The New Testament confirms the teaching of the Church, but it is not the original source. Again, the source is Christ and the Apostles.

Your Baptist friends are speaking from ignorance. Pray for them. And buy them another book – Born Fundamentalist, Born again Catholic, by former Baptist David Currie – also available at Catholic Answers and Amazon.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

I love this book! Another great book on the subject is “Rediscover Catholicism” by Matthew Kelly.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

I nearly die laughing when I hear people say this. I began studying my bible at age 14. It was encouraged and by the age of 17, I had read all of my bible including looking up all refererences frm my NAB. By the time I was 27, I had read it multiple times more and particularly read the New Testament 3 times as much as the Old Testament.

The history of the collection of books we call the bible is what really grasped my attention and lead me back to the Catholic Church after I defected. The problem I had with Catholicism is that no Catholics in my life knew, understood or practiced the teachings of the Church. I thought the Church was changing, which makes no sense. But what I read about Catholic teaching made sense. The problem was no one was faithful to that teaching…in my opinion, neither was the clergy, particularly the bishops.

It was studying history of the ancient Christians that convinced me very quickly that Protestants are clueless about the bible and the actual history of the Church. But, coming from a huge Protestant family, it took me nearly a life time to figure this out. Thank God!, we have so many resources available at the click of a button today.

Let me add this. My Protestant faith taught or teaches that Baptists will not be saved on the judgement day unless they repent from their evil wicked ways of teaching false doctrine. They do not teach what the bible teaches. That’s the formal position of our previous faith. Today, my wife and family are Catholic and understand just how naive Protestants can be. We love them and hope that they find God in their faith. We no longer harshly judge others because we also discovered that we were wrong for doing so.

 

[hellokitty]

Well, I can’t thank you all enough for your suggestions and prayers. I love books so I will happily buy those suggested. Theres also bible study groups at my parish and I will check today to see if it’s not too late to join.
I forgot to mention that if I stop taking her calls, she comes to my house and let me tell you there is nothing worse than having someone pounding on your door while your tip toeing around the house like youre hiding from the law!
So this must be dealt with right now, head on. From reading your suggestions, I get this is anetter opportunity to educate myself than try to prove any thing to her.
Ofcourse, I will print out all these replies and thoughtfully, prayerfully apply them.
And thank you for prayers. Her comparing her job issues to cancer was shocking to me. And the suggestion that I caused my own cancer. Just untenable.
So thank you so much. I feel so much better knowing I can end it and that she is wrong.
jen

 

[CopticChristian]

Well, I can’t thank you all enough for your suggestions and prayers. I love books so I will happily buy those suggested. Theres also bible study groups at my parish and I will check today to see if it’s not too late to join.
I forgot to mention that if I stop taking her calls, she comes to my house and let me tell you there is nothing worse than having someone pounding on your door while your tip toeing around the house like youre hiding from the law!
So this must be dealt with right now, head on. From reading your suggestions, I get this is anetter opportunity to educate myself than try to prove any thing to her.
Ofcourse, I will print out all these replies and thoughtfully, prayerfully apply them.
And thank you for prayers. Her comparing her job issues to cancer was shocking to me. And the suggestion that I caused my own cancer. Just untenable.
So thank you so much. I feel so much better knowing I can end it and that she is wrong.
jen

Politely and honestly if this person comes knocking on your door unwanted take action. If you have their name, address, and identifying information go to the Court and file a restraining order against harrassment.

I would not tell this person that you are doing it. Just do it. You need to take action. Why do you need to tip toe around your house. You are being bullied.

The other choice is to call the police the moment she steps on your property and pounds the door. A visit from the Police to tell the person they are harrasing you may be the ony step you need to take.

 

[JRKH]

Politely and honestly if this person comes knocking on your door unwanted take action. If you have their name, address, and identifying information go to the Court and file a restraining order against harrassment.

I would not tell this person that you are doing it. Just do it. You need to take action. Why do you need to tip toe around your house. You are being bullied.

The other choice is to call the police the moment she steps on your property and pounds the door. A visit from the Police to tell the person they are harrasing you may be the ony step you need to take.

This indeed one option but there is another. That is to fight fire with fire. This woman wishes to evangelize - OK - let’s evangelize. Listen to her and then tell her that her beliefs are not biblical (the same tripe that she gives you) tell her that she is not even using a complete bible - that hers is missing books.
When she brings up a particular “unbiblical” catholic teaching that you don’t have an answer for, just tell her to check back tomorrow and bring the question here…99 times out of 100 sound biblical references can be found…
Then when she says our interpretation is wrong - just respond in kind - our interpretation is right and hers is wrong…She can’t prove you wrong especially with 2000 years of Catholic teaching behind you.

In all likelihood she will soon tire of this sort of firm, charitable, “heels dug in”, back and forth and will move on to softer marks. Believe me that this can work. I have been visited by different groups and have invited them in, talked theology and - in one case talked them right off my front porch…(I’m sure scratching their heads…)

OR she’ll begin to see the cracks in her theology and maybe she’ll become Catholic…

Peace
James

 

[hellokitty]

I would sure love to use the time I have during my medical leave to learn more about my faith in order to defend it. This is the perfect solution to the problem I was having worrying all the time about my cancer treatments, the holidays, my children and ofcourse, my grandfather.
After considering what everyone here has been saying it really occured to me that I need to shut this down immediately. I emailed her and told her that the reason Catholicism wasn’t bilical is because we were around before the bible was even written and we look at the bible as sort of a family diary. I also told her that her bible was missing a few books, as far as I could see. I told her that she was wrong about me needing to be baptised again, the creed even says one baptism. Lastly, I invited her to attend church with me, if she were ever interested. I just didn’t want to be mean. Seeing as how I’m representing myself as a Catholic, I didn’t want her to have reason to speak against me or condemn my faith wholsale because of my behavior as some will do.
I hope she never contacts me again. I have enlisted my husband to answer the door if she comes pounding at the door! If it gets ridiculous, I will not hesitate to call the police. It’s a bit strange how religious fanatics can get. You just never know when your going to get a Wacco.
Maybe after I’ve read the books suggested and spent sometime being active in my faith I will be able to defend it. But I tell you what, I sure will never ever manipulate or trick anyone. I believe Jesus himself said if they don’t want what you’ve got, shake off the dust and move on. Well, that’s paraphrasing a bit.
I can’t believe my luck posting here and finding all this support. I’ve posted on this forum before and I just will never get used to how many amazing smart caring and knowledgable people are posting here! Thank you so much! Problem solved.
Jen

 

[Nicea325]

Greetings,
Just my luck, several years ago, I think I was chosen by a neighbor as a target for evangelization. I know Evangelicals do this as I have worked in a Baptist church before and seen first hand how they consider selling Jesus to people like women selling Mary Kay. The only difference is that Mary Kay ladies are honest about what they are selling.
I knew something was weird when I stopped answering her calls. I take my 93 year old grandfather to mass every weekend. She suggested I take him once a month and make her a nd make her Baptist church my home church. Her husband jokingly told me Catholics were going to burn in hell. I’m not an appologist, they were frightening me. Every time I shared something about my Catholic faith, they would say it wasnt biblical. I don’t have a lots of friends so I loved the bible studies until they started blaming every single problem in their lives on satan.
The worst part was last month I found out I have breast cancer. My Baptist friend said that all the ladies in the bible study were being attacked by satan and that she was having trouble at her job. She also said cancer was caused by unforgivness in my heart.
Please tell me how I can defend my Catholic faith. I don’t care that she used me to fill her quota. But I want to leave this making sure she knows a thing or two about our treasured faith.
Many thanks,
Jen

That is right! We are very Christian! Since when did Christ teach everything revolved around the Bible? Christ did not leave a book-faith only.

 

[LegoGE1947]

I would sure love to use the time I have during my medical leave to learn more about my faith in order to defend it. This is the perfect solution to the problem I was having worrying all the time about my cancer treatments, the holidays, my children and ofcourse, my grandfather.
After considering what everyone here has been saying it really occured to me that I need to shut this down immediately. I emailed her and told her that the reason Catholicism wasn’t bilical is because we were around before the bible was even written and we look at the bible as sort of a family diary. I also told her that her bible was missing a few books, as far as I could see. I told her that she was wrong about me needing to be baptised again, the creed even says one baptism. Lastly, I invited her to attend church with me, if she were ever interested. I just didn’t want to be mean. Seeing as how I’m representing myself as a Catholic, I didn’t want her to have reason to speak against me or condemn my faith wholsale because of my behavior as some will do.
I hope she never contacts me again. I have enlisted my husband to answer the door if she comes pounding at the door! If it gets ridiculous, I will not hesitate to call the police. It’s a bit strange how religious fanatics can get. You just never know when your going to get a Wacco.
Maybe after I’ve read the books suggested and spent sometime being active in my faith I will be able to defend it. But I tell you what, I sure will never ever manipulate or trick anyone. I believe Jesus himself said if they don’t want what you’ve got, shake off the dust and move on. Well, that’s paraphrasing a bit.
I can’t believe my luck posting here and finding all this support. I’ve posted on this forum before and I just will never get used to how many amazing smart caring and knowledgable people are posting here! Thank you so much! Problem solved.
Jen

I have been manipulated and tricked into joining several protestant groups. So much so that when I finally came into RCIA to join the Catholic Church, those in charge asked me “Are you absolutely sure you want to become Catholic?” And they pulled no punches in saying I would win no popularity contests by becoming one! Soon after my wife and I went to a “christian” book store to buy Catholic Bibles for ourselves The people behind the counter looked at us as if we had “robbed a bank” or something since this bookstore sold only Protestant materials. Since most of the world won’t support us what choice do we honestly have but to support each other?

 

[agnes_therese]

I forgot to mention that if I stop taking her calls, she comes to my house and let me tell you there is nothing worse than having someone pounding on your door while your tip toeing around the house like youre hiding from the law!

Keep in mind that it is YOUR house and YOUR door. I wouldn’t even tiptoe around. There’s no law that says you are required to open your door to anyone who knocks on it. Just go on about your business.

 

[LegoGE1947]

I have been manipulated and tricked into joining several protestant groups. So much so that when I finally came into RCIA to join the Catholic Church, those in charge asked me "Are you absolutely sure you want to become Catholic?"I was blown away! And they pulled no punches in saying I would win no popularity contests by becoming one! Soon after my wife and I went to a “christian” book store to buy Catholic Bibles for ourselves The people behind the counter looked at us as if we had “robbed a bank” or something since this bookstore sold only Protestant materials.

 

[Miriam1947]

I am co-owner of a Catholic book store and recently started carrying the KJV Bible.

In one week I had 6 people come in for a KJV and even though I offered to order one for them they declined.

I now have two in the store because there is no where local (AFAIK) for a Protestant to buy a KJV Bible and there is no way to convince them to buy the Catholic one.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

I am co-owner of a Catholic book store and recently started carrying the KJV Bible.

In one week I had 6 people come in for a KJV and even though I offered to order one for them they declined.

I now have two in the store because there is no where local (AFAIK) for a Protestant to buy a KJV Bible and there is no way to convince them to buy the Catholic one.

Make sure you stock the 1622 Edition. It contains the deuterocanon. That’s the original KJV, not this one we see offered in modern times after the fundamentalists began to strip it down further.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Make sure you stock the 1622 Edition. It contains the deuterocanon. That’s the original KJV, not this one we see offered in modern times after the fundamentalists began to strip it down further.

I was very surprised to find that the KJV I knew as a protestant was not the original but a later edition that had been stripped of the deuterocanon. It was no wonder that certain passages made no sense which they might have if the deuterocanon had been available.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

I was very surprised to find that the KJV I knew as a protestant was not the original but a later edition that had been stripped of the deuterocanon. It was no wonder that certain passages made no sense which they might have if the deuterocanon had been available.

I learned that for some 25 to 50 years after the deuterocanon was removed the references were still published. Later those references were removed as well.

 

[LegoGE1947]

I learned that for some 25 to 50 years after the deuterocanon was removed the references were still published. Later those references were removed as well.

Oh My! I’ll bet that would have been confusing!

 

[JRKH]

As I was going through my subscribed threads list I saw this title once again and my first thought was -

“Funny but that is the same argument that the Judaizers used against the Gentile converts in Antioch”.

The Jewish converts were upset that Paul (and others) were saying that the Gentiles did not need to be circumcised etc. in order to become Christians. Their argument quite logically followed the line that Jesus was a Jew, that “The Way” (Christianity) flowed from Judaism and that the “eternal covenant”, the Divine Law as recorded in Holy Scripture, needed to be followed - including circumcision.

So the Jewish converts quite logically accused the Gentile converts of not being biblical…

Peace
James

 

[LegoGE1947]

As I was going through my subscribed threads list I saw this title once again and my first thought was -

“Funny but that is the same argument that the Judaizers used against the Gentile converts in Antioch”.

The Jewish converts were upset that Paul (and others) were saying that the Gentiles did not need to be circumcised etc. in order to become Christians. Their argument quite logically followed the line that Jesus was a Jew, that “The Way” (Christianity) flowed from Judaism and that the “eternal covenant”, the Divine Law as recorded in Holy Scripture, needed to be followed - including circumcision.

So the Jewish converts quite logically accused the Gentile converts of not being biblical…

Peace
James

Since the Church came before the Bible (the New Testament at least) anyone who says “The Catholic Church isn’t biblical” is right in a way!