Baptist

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12volt_man: Could you please give us your interpretation of the meaning behind these passages?

"Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God’" (Luke 18:15–16)?

What, in your view, is happening here?

Also, what is your view on the Early Church Fathers, for instance, Irenaeus.
 
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12volt_man:
But man’s opinion is still subject to the final authority of God’s word.
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“Man’s” teachings are only correct insofar as they reflect God’s word, and God’s promise.

Baptism is a promise. Matt 16:18 is a promise
 
Eden said:
12volt_man: Could you please give us your interpretation of the meaning behind these passages?

"Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God’" (Luke 18:15–16)?

What, in your view, is happening here?
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I’ve addressed this already.
Also, what is your view on the Early Church Fathers, for instance, Irenaeus.
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In what way?
 
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12volt_man:
Baptism didn’t replace circumcision, Christ replaced circulmcision.
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No, Christ replaced circumcision with the new law which included baptism.

The “works of the law” were done away with and they included the temple rituals.

But, as 1Peter says… “…baptism now saves you…” And if Christ is necessary for our salvation, and He is, then we must adher to doing it His way.

We cannot come to Christ on our own terms. (which I personally believe include the altar call, the sinners prayer, the re-baptism etc)
 
MrS said:
“Man’s” teachings are only correct insofar as they reflect God’s word, and God’s promise.
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Given the habit of Roman Catholics to base their doctrines on the word of the pope and “early church fathers”, I can’t imagine that yours is a very popular opinion.

But it is the correct one.
 
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12volt_man:
Since we are united on the essential doctrines of Christianity, they’re probably right.
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And what are the “essential doctrines”? And where do I find them listed in the Bible?
 
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12volt_man:
Given the habit of Roman Catholics to base their doctrines on the word of the pope and “early church fathers”, I can’t imagine that yours is a very popular opinion.

But it is the correct one.
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God’s Word is contained in Sacred Tradition.

The fact is that if you don’t accept the Catholic Church, you have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe a word that the Bible says is inspired.

The Bible came from the Catholic Church. If you disbelieve the Church, you disbelieve the authority from which the Bible’s authority came. Without it, there is no reason to think it is inspired.

The Book of Mormon was given by Joseph Smith. If a Mormon disbelieves Joseph Smith, he disbelieves the authority from which the Book of Mormon comes. Without him, there is no reason to hold the Book of Mormon is inspired.

If a Muslim disbelieves Mohammed, he disbelieves the authority from which the Koran came from. Without him, there is no reason to hold the Koran to be inspired.

When a person receives revisions to the town by-laws in the mail, he believes that they are authoritative because he believes that the town has the authority to declare them authoritative. If he does not believe his town has authority, he has no reason to believe the by-laws are.

Submitting to the Bible without submitting to the Catholic Church is like submitting to a police lieutenant without submitting to the police department.
 
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12volt_man:
Given the habit of Roman Catholics to base their doctrines on the word of the pope and “early church fathers”, I can’t imagine that yours is a very popular opinion.

But it is the correct one.
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out of much pain there is often much good…l.

I am off to the dentist… :bigyikes:
 
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Lazerlike42:
God’s Word is contained in Sacred Tradition.
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Traidtions are fine but they’re still subject to scripture.
The fact is that if you don’t accept the Catholic Church, you have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe a word that the Bible says is inspired.
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That’s quite a stretch. Just because I believe the Bible doesn’t mean that I have to accept the authority of the Roman Catholic church or believe that I have to participate in their rituals to be saved, especially when many of it’s teachings contradict scripture.
 
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12volt_man:
I’ve addressed this already.
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Not really. You said what you believe isn’t happening here. You haven’t stated what is.
In what way?
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Do you believe that the Early Church Fathers practiced true Christianity? Were they Baptist?
 
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12volt_man:
Typically, we consider someone no longer an infant when they reach toddler age.
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Where’s that in the Bible?
Anyone who is old enough to understand what it means to repent of your sins and accept Christ can be baptised. Ideally, baptism should start around twelve or thirteen or older.
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Where is THAT in the Bible?
 
Originally Posted by MrS
“Man’s” teachings are only correct insofar as they reflect God’s word, and God’s promise.
Click to expand...
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12volt_man:
Given the habit of Roman Catholics to base their doctrines on the word of the pope and “early church fathers”, I can’t imagine that yours is a very popular opinion.

But it is the correct one.
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Sorry, but you are wrong here, 12volt_man. The Catholic Church does not “base” doctrines on the word of the pope nor on the early Church Fathers. Doctrine and dogma are based on Sacred Tradition. And what is Sacred Tradition? It is the whole of the teaching of Christ passed from him to his Apostles and their successors. This teaching is both oral and written, the written including the Sacred Scripture. Evidence for this is clearly found in the NT, if you care to look for it. 😉

You know, if you truly want to understand what Catholics believe and why, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church instead of relying on what other Protestants say Catholics believe no matter how seemingly well-educated they may be or not.
 
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12volt_man:
Traidtions are fine but they’re still subject to scripture.

That’s quite a stretch. Just because I believe the Bible doesn’t mean that I have to accept the authority of the Roman Catholic church or believe that I have to participate in their rituals to be saved, especially when many of it’s teachings contradict scripture.
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They don’t contradict Scripture, they harmonize it, but that is 100 other threads.

Tell me where the Bible came from without mentioning the Catholic Church. Prove to me that it is authoritative without mentioning the Catholic Church.

(And you can’t say that the Bible says so, because A) it doesn’t, and B) if you do, then the Bible has the same proof of inspiration as my next post does.)
 
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Eden:
Not really. You said what you believe isn’t happening here. You haven’t stated what is.
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No, you’re thinking of my answer to what is meant by Jesus allowing the children to come to Him.

We’re talking about my answer as to where we’re told the proper age for baptism.
Do you believe that the Early Church Fathers practiced true Christianity? Were they Baptist?
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As I said before, there was one church in the New Testament. Both the Roman Catholic and Baptist/Anabaptist movements grew out of this church. I believe that the early church fathers were a part of that church.
 
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12volt_man:
Given the habit of Roman Catholics to base their doctrines on the word of the pope and “early church fathers”, I can’t imagine that yours is a very popular opinion.

But it is the correct one.
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So, you do not believe in Apostolic Succession; though I can’t imagine why Apostolic Succession would be referred to as a “habit”.
 
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12volt_man:
Traidtions are fine but they’re still subject to scripture.
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Even those traditions that came before and during the times when scripture was being written and/or orally produced , but not recorded in scripture?
 
This post is inspired by God, and is beneficial for instructing, educating and growing in faith, so that the believer may be perfect.

Jesus is cool.

He ate a sandwhich once.

I also ate a sandwhich.

It made me sick.

I was sad.

Jesus was sad once.

Praise the Lord!
 
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