Baptists, Evangelicals and the Baptismal Sacrament

[cuddlz24]

Hi!

As a fundamental Christian, I believe in the infallibility, inerrancy and divine inspiration of the word of God in it’s entirety. That being said, yes the Bible states that baptism is to be done in public…so in that regard it is a public profession of faith. But we also believe it is what God tells us it is… a picture of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. So saying that it is nothing but a public profession of faith, would not be an accurate biblical description of baptism.
Second, as in the Bible, it is the first step of obedience after salvation. There is not one case in the New Testament of a baptism of an infant and so we do not permit the baptizing of infants. Nor is anyone baptized in the Bible, who was not first saved, therefore there must be a clear confession of faith before a person is baptized. Lastly, as the word “baptism” is derived from the Greek “baptizo”, which means to immerse or dip…we follow the scriptural example of baptism by immersion as there is no sprinkling recorded in the New Testament.

Matthew 3:16 - And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Acts 8:35-39 - Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

 

[stewstew03]

Marriage is, by Christian definition, a covenant before God. So yes.

Fine. It sounds like you are saying it is the church wedding ceremony that puts them into a right relationship with God, despite their commitment to one another and their living outwardly as H and W.

So why can’t baptism do the same?

 

[Gaelic_Bard]

Fine. It sounds like you are saying it is the church wedding ceremony that puts them into a right relationship with God, despite their commitment to one another and their living outwardly as H and W.

So why can’t baptism do the same?

It insures that there is no sin committed by the couple in their marriage. It doesn’t put them in a right relationship with God in the sense of their justification or sanctification. In the sense of trying to compare baptism to marriage, I know you pointed to an SBC site that said baptism was like a wedding ring. Personally I wouldnt use that analogy. Though it could be compared to a ring in the sense that the ring is a part of the public profession of the internal marriage. I would still avoid it because its not a biblical example and analogies always break down.

Its not that baptism “cant.” Theres a difference between cant and doesnt.

 

[Mike_SoCal]

I recently attended an evangelical baptist church and witnessed a baptismal ceremony.

Baptism is Biblically defined, it is literal, and we all should understand it regardless of which church we attend.

Baptism is a ritual cleansing of sin as taught by St. John the Baptist.
A Penitent person would be baptized for the forgiveness of their sins.
This is stated many times in the Bible.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus would baptize with he Holy Ghost. As stated above.

Mark 16:15,16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

“He that Believeth” John 3:16,17,18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

What should we do? Rom 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

What is the result?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I don’t think any Christian church disagrees with the biblical statements above. We should all find common ground here.

Best to settle this and be obedient to the Lord. If you have not been Biblically baptized then go do it. At worst, you will get wet, at best you will have Blessed Assurance that you were obedient to the Lord.

 

[PRmerger]

It insures that there is no sin committed by the couple in their marriage.

It would appear that this is because we understand that marriage changes things. Ontologically. Once a couple is married what existed before–two people, separated–exists no more. They are now One.

Similarly, we understand that baptism changes things. Ontologically. Once an individual is baptized what exists before–a soul unclaimed by Christ–exists no more. An indelible mark has been placed on his soul for eternity.

 

[stewstew03]

It insures that there is no sin committed by the couple in their marriage. It doesn’t put them in a right relationship with God in the sense of their justification or sanctification. In the sense of trying to compare baptism to marriage, I know you pointed to an SBC site that said baptism was like a wedding ring. Personally I wouldnt use that analogy. Though it could be compared to a ring in the sense that the ring is a part of the public profession of the internal marriage. I would still avoid it because its not a biblical example and analogies always break down.

Its not that baptism “cant.” Theres a difference between cant and doesnt.

This is a puzzling response, indeed. Marriage doesn’t put the husband and wife in a right relationship with God, and yet it “insures that there is no sin [of fornication] in their marriage”?? It was my understanding that sin separates us from God – is this not the Baptist position?

As PRmerger stated:

…marriage changes things. Ontologically. Once a couple is married what existed before–two people, separated–exists no more. They are now One.

Similarly, we understand that baptism changes things. Ontologically. Once an individual is baptized what exists before–a soul unclaimed by Christ–exists no more. An indelible mark has been placed on his soul for eternity.

 

[Gaelic_Bard]

This is a puzzling response, indeed. Marriage doesn’t put the husband and wife in a right relationship with God, and yet it “insures that there is no sin [of fornication] in their marriage”?? It was my understanding that sin separates us from God – is this not the Baptist position?

As PRmerger stated:

If a couple is married in a church, yet neither of them are actually Christian, their marriage doesn’t justify them or save them. They wouldn’t be committing fornication, but they’d still be lost sinners otherwise.

 

[stewstew03]

Hi!

As a fundamental Christian, I believe in the infallibility, inerrancy and divine inspiration of the word of God in it’s entirety.

Great! I’m assuming you also believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist as well! “This is my body… This is my blood…”

Amen for ecumenism.

That being said, yes the Bible states that baptism is to be done in public…so in that regard it is a public profession of faith.

Oops - okay. As a fundamentalist, surely you can point out where Jesus says “go and baptize everyone in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, as a public display of their faith… so that others will know they are Christians…”

So saying that it is nothing but a public profession of faith, would not be an accurate biblical description of baptism.

Isn’t that what it is? A public profession of faith?

Second, as in the Bible, it is the first step of obedience after salvation. There is not one case in the New Testament of a baptism of an infant and so we do not permit the baptizing of infants. Nor is anyone baptized in the Bible, who was not first saved, therefore there must be a clear confession of faith before a person is baptized. Lastly, as the word “baptism” is derived from the Greek “baptizo”, which means to immerse or dip…we follow the scriptural example of baptism by immersion as there is no sprinkling recorded in the New Testament.

Leaving infants aside… what do you mean by “after salvation.” You mean after someone makes it to Heaven?

And if it’s just a symbol… surely the form cannot matter.

 

[stewstew03]

If a couple is married in a church, yet neither of them are actually Christian, their marriage doesn’t justify them or save them. They wouldn’t be committing fornication, but they’d still be lost sinners otherwise.

Okay, if a couple is married in a Christian church, and neither of them are “true” Christians, do they still have a covenant with God?

 

[Anna_Scott]

yes, I did miss initially.sorry about that. thank you for the response…

So, no response to the Scripture posted?

Anna

 

[Gaelic_Bard]

Okay, if a couple is married in a Christian church, and neither of them are “true” Christians, do they still have a covenant with God?

Yes. A covenant is a covenant.

 

[Kellyreneeomara]

I recently attended an evangelical baptist church and witnessed a baptismal ceremony.

Much like in our Catholic faith (and other faiths), baptism is a big deal for baptists/evangelicals, and yet, at the same time, it is unlike our Catholic faith in that – aside from sentiment – it is completely meaningless. It’s simply a public profession of faith and has no effect on the soul.

So, my question for baptists/evangelicals:

1. 
   *]If baptism is merely a public profession of faith, why go through the trouble of building a baptismal pool? And, incidentally, where is the scriptural justification for building baptismal pools and using them as public professions of faith?
   *]Where do baptist/evangelical ministers get their authority for baptizing “born-again” Christians? Why not let the parents of a child, for example, conduct the baptismal ceremony?

1. 
   I will say this, I was raised Baptist and it effected my soul…I knew my love for God @ age 12 …and knew that through baptism, I was saved through his grace…when I went through RCIA in the Catholic Church, my baptism was FULLY accepted…just had to produce certificate…I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Ghost back then)…I have since changed to Episcopal due to a calling I have had since a teen…but still hold my former Catholic faith near my heart with great respect ~ peace and God bless !

 

[stewstew03]

Yes. A covenant is a covenant.

Then it has changed their standing with God - regardless of whether or not they are “true” Christians.

…
Similarly, we understand that baptism changes things. Ontologically. Once an individual is baptized what exists before–a soul unclaimed by Christ–exists no more. An indelible mark has been placed on his soul for eternity.

 

[Gaelic_Bard]

Then it has changed their standing with God - regardless of whether or not they are “true” Christians.

It hasn’t justified them or made them Christians. This is getting off the topic of baptism, though lol

 

[PRmerger]

It hasn’t justified them or made them Christians. This is getting off the topic of baptism, though lol

No one has posited that marriage justifies or makes them into Christians.

What is being proposed is that an outward “ceremony” does indeed change one’s status.

In fact, it changes so much, so profound is this ceremony (whether it be baptism or marriage) that the universe is changed forever.

How magnificent is that???

 

[Gaelic_Bard]

No one has posited that marriage justifies or makes them into Christians.

What is being proposed is that an outward “ceremony” does indeed change one’s status.

In fact, it changes so much, so profound is this ceremony (whether it be baptism or marriage) that the universe is changed forever.

How magnificent is that???

Yes…but I am not sure we were even discussing that. That is, stew and I. At least, I don’t remember discussing changes in status.

 

[stewstew03]

Yes…but I am not sure we were even discussing that. That is, stew and I. At least, I don’t remember discussing changes in status.

What is it that you think we were discussing? Of course we’re discussing our status with God.

 

[stewstew03]

It hasn’t justified them or made them Christians. This is getting off the topic of baptism, though lol

No one is claiming that marriage justifies… I’m confused by this response and wondering if you’ve stopped paying attention.

 

[Gaelic_Bard]

What is it that you think we were discussing? Of course we’re discussing our status with God.

No we weren’t! No one brought that up until the marriage thing

 

[stewstew03]

No we weren’t! No one brought that up until the marriage thing

Correct - I brought up marriage to illustrate the point with baptism. That is, you’re perfectly willing to accept that a Church ceremony is required to create a covenant with God; and you’re willing to accept that the Church ceremony extends God’s grace to the married couple in such a way that wipes away the sin of fornication.

But you’re completely unwilling to accept that baptism changes a person’s standing with God; and unwilling to accept that baptism wipes away the stain of original sin.

So why accept the marriage ceremony but not the baptismal ceremony?