Baptists 'not threatened' by pope's U.S. visit

[Still_Hoping]

There was a popular thread a couple of years back on the misconceptions Non-Catholics had of the Catholic Church. One whopper was that all Catholics were required to keep,weapons in their basement to be ready for when the Pope would call them to arms.

One Catholic poster responded on the lack of a basement in his house. Another poster, who was Methodist, said the Methodists were willing to share their basements for the storage of said weapons.

I can imagine a report to the Baptist churches: " The Catholics are coming…and they brought the Methodists with them."

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

According to most evangelical theology, Jesus is the vehicle for salvation. The Church is the Body on earth and in this time, but only a personal relationship with Christ offers true salvation. The Catholic Church doesn’t really teach this. Salvation/grace comes through the Sacramental Church. If you are in a state of grace via those sacraments, you are offered opportunity for salvation. If you are outside of what the Church teaches through your sin or beliefs, then salvation is not readily available. The Church is Jesus and Jesus is the Church. That is what they are saying. And that is what they profoundly disagree with.

I was a non-denominational protestant at one time. Nobody ever said exactly what a “personal relationship with Jesus” was though… They pray to Jesus, trust in him for their salvation and try to follow his teaching to the best of their interpretation of scripture… Dont Catholics do that too? Yes, regardless if they think we do not.

This is just another case of a child (baptist denomination) thinking that they know better than the wise old grandfather (The Catholic Church) My God knows I love him, he knows my fears, my weaknesses and desires of my heart. I break down and cry to him when I am sad. I tell him “I do not want to do what you want me to Lord, but I will do it anyway, for you” I ask him to please intercede for me to The Father when I sin. I thank The Father all the time for his blessings. I ask The Holy Spirit to help me resist temptation to sin and to place in me a upright conscience. And I LOVE my Lord. Without LOVE in their heart, no Catholic or Baptist is saved. It is all about LOVE. What Baptist is gonna tell me that I do not have a personal relationship with my God? Or convince me that their denomination that was founded a couple hundred years ago is more correct than The Church Christ himself started? They need to stop asking other Baptists what Catholics believe and ask some knowledgeable Catholics what Catholics believe and maybe they will not have the need to declare that they do not feel “Threatened” by The Pope’s visit to The U.S. As if The Pope said “Baptists, I am coming after you” It is silly

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

There was a popular thread a couple of years back on the misconceptions Non-Catholics had of the Catholic Church. One whopper was that all Catholics were required to keep,weapons in their basement to be ready for when the Pope would call them to arms.

One Catholic poster responded on the lack of a basement in his house. Another poster, who was Methodist, said the Methodists were willing to share their basements for the storage of said weapons.

I can imagine a report to the Baptist churches: " The Catholics are coming…and they brought the Methodists with them."

I know two Ex-Methodists who became Catholic. Coincidence? Maybe not…

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Ok, after reading the link, they actually said they were not threatened in a kind of positive way. Interesting article. They certainly get the un-catechized Catholics, but I have never met a convert from protestantism to Catholicism that did not have a amazing story of a quest for truth and love of Christ and scripture. Not counting myself, as I am a convert

 

[71326]

Nobody ever said exactly what a “personal relationship with Jesus” was though…

Accepting Jesus into your heart as personal Saviour. I suspect the Greek language in the Bible doesn’t have that exact expression. The word for “repent” denoted a change in one’s mind (instead of the heart), so it seems possible to accept Jesus through assent of the intellect and will too.

 

[benhur]

‘“I believe a simple way of understanding the difference is this: The Catholic Church believes that salvation is mediated to each of us by the Catholic Church,” he said. "As evangelicals, although we believe the church is vitally important, we believe Christ is the only mediator, and we received salvation by grace through faith in Him alone, not through the church.’

can someone explain to this leader of Baptists that we believe the church leads us through Jesus’ power to salvation, through Jesus Christ our Lord… Am I right? I’m not a theologian, just a man in the pew, so etimes I can’t understand fully what these clever men are protesting about, but all I know is i am in the Catholic Church because of Jesus, and it is through the Grace of God, taking up our cross daily that we are offered the hope of salvation .

Hi 123,

From what you posted it seems you almost reinforce the baptists point. I think there is a subtle but important difference between the church leading me thru Jesus as you say and Jesus leading me through the church. The taking up of your cross as a condition not to salvation but to the hope of salvation is playing right into his statement also.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

Unfortunately, this is a perception that has been forged into the psyche of protestants since the reformation and will never be removed unless we address it publicly (apologetics: but still they don’t listen). I meet up on some Friday’s with evangelical sisters who are wonderful but they too have this misconception; they couldn’t believe that I somehow have this wonderful, intimate relationship with Christ and yet I am a devout Catholic. Don’t ask me why I meet up with them, that is a long story. Just note that there is still this misconception of Catholics. JFYI the ex-catholics there are more fervent with their new found religion. BTW they don’t consider themselves in a religion but the true church of Christ.

Hi SH,

Do you agree with the post that said you can not get more intimate with Christ than to be in His one true Catholic Church and His sacraments ? Another words, not that just that you have an intimate relationship, but is it more so than that of your Protestant friends (who are not in that church nor have those sacraments as such)? If one were to observe those in your group could one tell which was Catholic and which was not , of who was more intimate with Jesus, all other things being equal (maturity, gifting)?

Blessings

 

[benhur]

I was a non-denominational protestant at one time. Nobody ever said exactly what a “personal relationship with Jesus” was though… They pray to Jesus, trust in him for their salvation and try to follow his teaching to the best of their interpretation of scripture… Dont Catholics do that too? Yes, regardless if they think we do not.

This is just another case of a child (baptist denomination) thinking that they know better than the wise old grandfather (The Catholic Church) My God knows I love him, he knows my fears, my weaknesses and desires of my heart. I break down and cry to him when I am sad. I tell him “I do not want to do what you want me to Lord, but I will do it anyway, for you” I ask him to please intercede for me to The Father when I sin. I thank The Father all the time for his blessings. I ask The Holy Spirit to help me resist temptation to sin and to place in me a upright conscience. And I LOVE my Lord. Without LOVE in their heart, no Catholic or Baptist is saved. It is all about LOVE. What Baptist is gonna tell me that I do not have a personal relationship with my God? Or convince me that their denomination that was founded a couple hundred years ago is more correct than The Church Christ himself started? They need to stop asking other Baptists what Catholics believe and ask some knowledgeable Catholics what Catholics believe and maybe they will not have the need to declare that they do not feel “Threatened” by The Pope’s visit to The U.S. As if The Pope said “Baptists, I am coming after you” It is silly

well it is like if billy graham came and only emphasized meeting Jesus in a saving way, irregardless of church affiliation, like first things first. Would you like that? Does the pope, leader of the CC, embody that sentiment ?

Blessings

 

[123me]

It’s not because The pope holds the keys handed from Jesus, Billy Graham doesn’t hold these keys . if you don’t understand the origins and see the overwhelming evidence of the papacy making the pope a very special leader then this is what happens… That is Protestantism in a nut shell as far as I see. Without the pope it leads to errors and Billy Graham would therefore be a poor leader of people. The pope the bishops the priests all lead us to Jesus through his church through his sacraments administered by the ordained. The church is one big family of God, it’s what Jesus intended for all mankind, for our salvation, try putting that in a sound byte! You can’t its not ‘I have relationship I am saved’

Regards carrying the cross again I say, it is a symphony of the love and the sacraments , which includes us carrying our crosses daily why receiving the sacrements especially the Eucharist, we share in Jesus’ sacrifice in his sacrificial meal, offering our own crosses, by carrying our cross we obtain the correct disposition to receive the graces and benefit from them aiding us each in our journey to salvation. Protestants seem to see things in black and white without colour or depth which it really is a symphony of increasing love through the Jesus’s sacraments (did you know Jesus instituted the Eucharist for good reason).

I hope Benhur you come to see this as well as the Baptist man. God Bless you and peace be with you, and forgive me for my own misunderstandings which are plentiful surely (that’s why I need the church and the pope et al).

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

well it is like if billy graham came and only emphasized meeting Jesus in a saving way, irregardless of church affiliation, like first things first. Would you like that? Does the pope, leader of the CC, embody that sentiment ?

Blessings

I have to be honest, I do not understand the question.

 

[123me]

tbo after double checking i’m not 100% sure what Ben Hur’s point is either, i responded to what i thought he might be alluding ie: Billy Graham would be as good as the pope in doing things that the pope has been entrusted to do as leader of the church at the top of the church hierarchy, but i may have misunderstood when reading between the lines. Perhaps Benhur can explain a bit if you have the time thanks.

 

[zz912]

Why would they be threatened?

Because it will open some eyes when people see a couple million people crowding to see the Pope, because that simply doesn’t exist in the Baptist world. It might cause some to wonder about how small they are in the Christian world, and maybe realize there’s more to the Christian faith than they know.

 

[benhur]

I have to be honest, I do not understand the question.

Ok. Their is a lot of “activity” around the pope coming. To a P it is like if a famous P evangelist coming to town or one that embodies revival. A lot of hoopla, activity,buzz. The message is one of Jesus Christ, and does not push, sell, advocate any particular denomination. The message is that Christ puts you into His body, the “church”.

As you know this is contrary to Catholic teaching. I am asking if a Catholic would be happy to see such and evangelist come to his or her town, like what is there to be afraid of or apprehensive about. Would the Pope embody such a message as the evangelist ?

I guess I am saying that Baptists, per he article, might be apprehensive about the Pope’s visit, and not to criticize them for Catholics might also be apprehensive if a big P event came to town. That is all.

Blessings

PS yes ez is right in that nothing, nothing compares to the grandeur and historicity and authority of the pope. I do not mean to imply a P event or famous P evangelist would. But for those of you who are older, Billy Graham is what I would identify with, as approaching a renowned famous P leader/evangelist .

 

[dsfgsadfgsdfg]

“The message is one of Jesus Christ”

Perhaps all denominations and all people could remember this and stop getting into a pissing contest of who’s the better Christian. I mean, really. With all that is happening in the world, THIS is the fight you want to pick? Creating a bigger divide?

Good grief.

May we all remember: The message is one of Jesus Christ.

 

[MartinJordan]

“We as Evangelicals believe that the only Mediator…snip…is Jesus Christ…”

Then leave the Bibles behind. Can they?

MJ

 

[123me]

Thanks for explaining Benhur, I don’t know if you will agree but the pope is usually v calm and is definitely pushing ecumenism, re billy Graham, I wouldn’t personally be afraid, I would likely attend his event, it wouldn’t convert me, but he was/is certainly an eloquent and charismatic leader I only wish he used his talents in our church, though of course he didn’t agree with some of our theology, he had Christ in common though and had many good things to say, and I’m glad he helped you on your spiritual journey.

God Bless you.

 

[benhur]

Thanks for explaining Benhur, I don’t know if you will agree but the pope is usually v calm and is definitely pushing ecumenism, re billy Graham, I wouldn’t personally be afraid, I would likely attend his event, it wouldn’t convert me, but he was/is certainly an eloquent and charismatic leader I only wish he used his talents in our church, though of course he didn’t agree with some of our theology, he had Christ in common though and had many good things to say, and I’m glad he helped you on your spiritual journey.

God Bless you.

Thank you Blesings

 

[commenter]

Thanks for explaining Benhur, I don’t know if you will agree but the pope is usually v calm and is definitely pushing ecumenism, re billy Graham, I wouldn’t personally be afraid, I would likely attend his event, it wouldn’t convert me, but he was/is certainly an eloquent and charismatic leader I only wish he used his talents in our church, though of course he didn’t agree with some of our theology, he had Christ in common though and had many good things to say, and I’m glad he helped you on your spiritual journey.

God Bless you.

We can all praise God for Billy Graham’s ministry. He helped bring many individuals to enter, or return, to the apartment building of Christianity. Once they entered the building, they then would need to enter this or that apartment - or church - as their home. (Borrowing from C. S. Lewis’ “Mere Christianity”.) Of course you can criticize him as superficial because he saw his job only as getting people to come in from the outside, and he did that job well.

In his early years his *Crusades *(yes, Baptists used that term) would hand out literature that included anti-Catholic material, but he later removed all of that. They later added local Catholic churches as options they would give out, along with other churches, to those who came forward as “saved”.

The late Catholic writer from the South, Flannery O’Connor, said something about how Baptists are really much closer to Catholicism than at first glance. At a time when Southern Baptists and Catholics are alike getting bashed by the secular media establishment, maybe we need to get to know each other better.

My daily newspaper used to carry his column “My Answer”, as well as Fulton Sheen’s column, a few times a week. Boy are those days ever gone.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Ok. Their is a lot of “activity” around the pope coming. To a P it is like if a famous P evangelist coming to town or one that embodies revival. A lot of hoopla, activity,buzz. The message is one of Jesus Christ, and does not push, sell, advocate any particular denomination. The message is that Christ puts you into His body, the “church”.

As you know this is contrary to Catholic teaching. I am asking if a Catholic would be happy to see such and evangelist come to his or her town, like what is there to be afraid of or apprehensive about. Would the Pope embody such a message as the evangelist ?

I guess I am saying that Baptists, per he article, might be apprehensive about the Pope’s visit, and not to criticize them for Catholics might also be apprehensive if a big P event came to town. That is all.

Blessings

PS yes ez is right in that nothing, nothing compares to the grandeur and historicity and authority of the pope. I do not mean to imply a P event or famous P evangelist would. But for those of you who are older, Billy Graham is what I would identify with, as approaching a renowned famous P leader/evangelist .

Ok, I think I understand a little better Except, I am not sure what you are saying that I know is contrary to Catholic teaching. Preaching Jesus without pushing denomination? Or that Jesus puts us into His Body? If you mean he is pushing a message that "It does not matter what denomination you belong to as long as you believe in Jesus, then yes, that is contradictory to Catholic teaching. Ultimately God can save whomever he wants regardless of denomination, but, as you know, we believe “invincible ignorance” comes into play, but anyways, that is besides the topic.

I imagine there would be mixed opinions among Catholics if a famous protestant evangelist comes to town. Some Catholics, who are un-catechized, do view Catholicism and the protestant version of Christianity as the same. They are basically already protestants but like to retain calling themselves Catholic for whatever reason. I imagine they would like it. There are a good number of Catholic who actually are not very familiar with protestantism at all so they probably would not know what to think. There are some Catholic, I am sure, who probably do think that all protestants are going to hell (They are also un-Catechized and do not seem to have gotten Jesus’ memo about mercy and love in The Bible) I imagine they would be outright not to happy about it. I am sure some would not have a problem with it at all or even think it is good.

Big protestant evangelists do come to my area often. They have “The harvest crusade” every year at Angel stadium. My mother even took me to one when I was a kid. Benny Hinn use to have his miracle crusade at The Anaheim convention center. I imagine he still does and I have been to a couple of those too. Also when I was a kid. Generally I do not think much about it. I guess now that I am forced to think about it, my opinion would vary depending on which famous protestant preacher came to town. Some are good men and some are whacky. Of course, it goes without saying that I am going to disagree on doctrine I guess I would probably have the same attitude as Those Baptists, only on a way lesser scale because even the most famous protestant preacher does not attract attention like The Pope does. If one did, I guess that would bother me a bit, I have to admit