Baptists told to shun prayer w/ others; catholics are not christians

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I was told today that the Southern Baptist Convention, when they met this summer, encouraged its members to shun prayer with other christians, and that catholics are considered a “cult” of sorts, not good.

I was unable to question the speaker as to his sources, so I’m coming here.

Can anyone direct me to sources for this? I want to clarify what I heard.

Thanks.
 
I am not sure about this. I found where some of the speakers called Mormanism a cult, but not Catholics. Anyway, I do not think that the Southern Baptist Convention has any real power, as all individual churches are independent anyway. I could find no proof of an order to shun other denominations. I will call around (being in Alabama has an advantage or two).

Check this link
ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=9611

This group is a Souther Baptist entity and the site does not promote seeing Catholics as cultists.

4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbPNLrF/b.2951385/k.965A/Roman_Catholicism_Overview.htm
 
My mom’s brother is a well-known SB minister. He used to think that Catholics are not “saved” and are not Christian (that’s what he was taught in seminary), but over the years my mom, a convert to Catholicism, has educated him so that now he has changed his thinking. It can happen but often takes a long time to overcome many years (even generations) of misconceptions.

God bless,
Paul
 
I just looked over all the information about the annual meeting on the SBC’s website and did not find anything about shunning prayers with Catholics or any other group. This is not to say that such a statement was not made, but I cannot find it on their official site.
 
Keep in mind that various motions and resolutions are not binding on Southern Baptist Churches OR on individuals. So why they bother is beyond me.

Do you remember a few years ago when they voted to boycott Disney for having gay days? It made NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOER if a SB had planned on going there.
 
I have heard unreasonable bias by Protestants against Catholics.

I have now been attending an ecumenical sort of fellowship in my place of work attended by many Protestants of different denominations (including Baptists) and Catholics. We meet about twice a month for Bible sharing, testimonies, prayers and sometimes listen to teaching from invited speakers. These would be followed by light refreshment.

I learned that many anti-Catholic Protestants, at least in my place, are ignorant of Catholic teachings and the bias are fed by their pastors, which they believe wholeheartedly. There are Protestants too who have been treated badly by Catholics in the past, and those nurtured some ill feelings towards us. Some Catholics do not help things either, like being overboard in their devotion to Mary. Protestants see this as example of Catholics being “unChristian”.

However, those Protestants who come into contact with us begin to undertsand us better, and I think they are very reasonable people.

Just a sharing of my experience with them. 🙂

God bless.
 
if we are going to discuss a specific action taken by the SBC at a specific time and place, we need to have a link, not go on hearsay
 
if we are going to discuss a specific action taken by the SBC at a specific time and place, we need to have a link, not go on hearsay
annie, that’s why I started this thread - I’m looking for the source. Can you help?
 
I appreciate all the replies. I am going to try to contact the speaker and ask him.
 
Well I dont’ know about this year, but I do know that several years ago in the Baptist Standard (a Texas Baptist newsletter) they mentioned that the SCB had declared the Catholic faith as a “false religion”. (And having SB and non-denoms as relatives, they all like to say that Catholics aren’t Christian. :banghead: )

http:baptiststandard.com/postnuke/index.php
 
One of the Deacons in my church did the homily today. He mentioned this as well. I asked him for the source and he is going to get it for me. Mary, are you in Alabama?
 
Maybe I can shed so light on this issue. I am a Reformed Baptist. I do not consider the Catholic Church a relative in Christ as I would say a Methodist, Presbyterian and so on. The reason for this is at the counsel of Trent and Vatican 1, the Catholic Church stated that ALL believers that are outside the Catholic Church are anathema. They declared that all out side the Catholic Church are condemned to HELL. Also, this ruling was stated to be unreformable. How are we (true Christians out side of the Catholic faith) supposed to embrace the Catholic Church or even its members when such a silly and childish ruling still stands? To add insult to this, the new pope reaffirmed this ruling.

That is the reason (I can only speak for myself) why the Protestants cannot and will not embrace the Catholic church. Until this ruling is lifted, there cannot be any fellowship between the two churches.

As far as the question that was raised about the SBC considering the Catholic Church a Cult, I do not. However, I do find her very much in error in regards to the Bible. Salvation, Justification, Sanctification among many other doctrines are different or altered because of the (oral) tradition of the church.

Rulings and dogmas were set forth by popes of less then desirable character, which are still in effect today. I for one am not willing to stake my beliefs on the opinion of a pope who is of questionable reputation. The only justification to many of these beliefs is the tradition of the church and the the pope essentially saying “trust me.” I for one cannot do such a thing and I believe the words of my Lord and Savior rather then a person or people who as Luther stated “have often erred.” Despite the obvious errors of pope Leo and the catholic establishment, he was condemned to Hell or ex-communicated by the church and many catholics to this day view him as a sort of anti-Christ.

After saying all of that, I must also state that I do indeed love any and all who love my Lord. I do not hold any ill feelings towards the Catholic believers, but rather the Catholic establishment. I do in fact pray for those in the Catholic Church and do believe that someone can be saved in the CC. However, they are not saved through the traditions of the church but rather the righteousness and mercy of our God in handing His elect over to the Lord of glory.

It is Christ that saves, not the church or man or popes. He and He alone is the perfect Savior and mediator who I will but my eternal fate in. I will most definitely not be any action or act of my own because every thing that you and I do is tainted in sin because of the fall (see Romans 3:10-18 and Romans 8:8-9). It is God who handed His believers (that He chose) over to the Son and all who were given WILL be raised up on the last day (John 6, 8, 10, and 12). These believers were chosen before the foundations of the world and will be saved because our perfect Savior is just that, perfect (see Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9 and Eph 1). As Paul said, “it is by faith that you are saved, not by works, it is the gift of God, lest any man boast.” We are called to put our faith in Christ Jesus, not in our works or own righteousness. Salvation is not synergistic, it is mono or monergistic. Meaning, it is of Gods Amazing grace and not of mans actions. For grace to be grace, it must be free. It can be nothing that we earn and it is not of any merit in us. It is because of a loving God that anyone is justified before a perfect Savior. Thank you Lord Jesus.

Now, that was the theologian speaking in me, but now to the simple Christian. I do love those in the CC, and I pray that the freedom of the Lord of Glory will start to trump a mans ideas. I know this statement will not go over well but I state it out of love. Look to the simplicity of Christ and not to the traditions of men. Traditions are fine as long as they do not conflict with Holy Scripture. When they do it should be quite simple, man can error, God cannot. That is why I believe I cannot fellowship with the Catholic believer. There is simply no common ground because even the view of salvation is of question between the two faiths.

I pray that all who read this will see that it is not out of malice that many in the Protestant Church will not embrace the CC. By Trent’s ruling, you as a Catholic believer cannot fellowship with us. I do in fact love you but I must be true to the Holy word of my God and to his Glory. I pray that my Lord Jesus will bless all of you and we will all come to a greater understanding of the truth of our Lord and our God, or as it is stated, “the simplicity of Christ.”
JK
 
Maybe I can shed so light on this issue. I am a Reformed Baptist. I do not consider the Catholic Church a relative in Christ as I would say a Methodist, Presbyterian and so on. The reason for this is at the counsel of Trent and Vatican 1, the Catholic Church stated that ALL believers that are outside the Catholic Church are anathema. They declared that all out side the Catholic Church are condemned to HELL. Also, this ruling was stated to be unreformable. How are we (true Christians out side of the Catholic faith) supposed to embrace the Catholic Church or even its members when such a silly and childish ruling still stands? To add insult to this, the new pope reaffirmed this ruling.

That is the reason (I can only speak for myself) why the Protestants cannot and will not embrace the Catholic church. Until this ruling is lifted, there cannot be any fellowship between the two churches.

As far as the question that was raised about the SBC considering the Catholic Church a Cult, I do not. However, I do find her very much in error in regards to the Bible. Salvation, Justification, Sanctification among many other doctrines are different or altered because of the (oral) tradition of the church.

Rulings and dogmas were set forth by popes of less then desirable character, which are still in effect today. I for one am not willing to stake my beliefs on the opinion of a pope who is of questionable reputation. The only justification to many of these beliefs is the tradition of the church and the the pope essentially saying “trust me.” I for one cannot do such a thing and I believe the words of my Lord and Savior rather then a person or people who as Luther stated “have often erred.” Despite the obvious errors of pope Leo and the catholic establishment, he was condemned to Hell or ex-communicated by the church and many catholics to this day view him as a sort of anti-Christ.

After saying all of that, I must also state that I do indeed love any and all who love my Lord. I do not hold any ill feelings towards the Catholic believers, but rather the Catholic establishment. I do in fact pray for those in the Catholic Church and do believe that someone can be saved in the CC. However, they are not saved through the traditions of the church but rather the righteousness and mercy of our God in handing His elect over to the Lord of glory.

It is Christ that saves, not the church or man or popes. He and He alone is the perfect Savior and mediator who I will but my eternal fate in. I will most definitely not be any action or act of my own because every thing that you and I do is tainted in sin because of the fall (see Romans 3:10-18 and Romans 8:8-9). It is God who handed His believers (that He chose) over to the Son and all who were given WILL be raised up on the last day (John 6, 8, 10, and 12). These believers were chosen before the foundations of the world and will be saved because our perfect Savior is just that, perfect (see Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9 and Eph 1). As Paul said, “it is by faith that you are saved, not by works, it is the gift of God, lest any man boast.” We are called to put our faith in Christ Jesus, not in our works or own righteousness. Salvation is not synergistic, it is mono or monergistic. Meaning, it is of Gods Amazing grace and not of mans actions. For grace to be grace, it must be free. It can be nothing that we earn and it is not of any merit in us. It is because of a loving God that anyone is justified before a perfect Savior. Thank you Lord Jesus.

Now, that was the theologian speaking in me, but now to the simple Christian. I do love those in the CC, and I pray that the freedom of the Lord of Glory will start to trump a mans ideas. I know this statement will not go over well but I state it out of love. Look to the simplicity of Christ and not to the traditions of men. Traditions are fine as long as they do not conflict with Holy Scripture. When they do it should be quite simple, man can error, God cannot. That is why I believe I cannot fellowship with the Catholic believer. There is simply no common ground because even the view of salvation is of question between the two faiths.

I pray that all who read this will see that it is not out of malice that many in the Protestant Church will not embrace the CC. By Trent’s ruling, you as a Catholic believer cannot fellowship with us. I do in fact love you but I must be true to the Holy word of my God and to his Glory. I pray that my Lord Jesus will bless all of you and we will all come to a greater understanding of the truth of our Lord and our God, or as it is stated, “the simplicity of Christ.”
JK
Lets start with “They declared that all outside The Catholic Church are condemned to Hell.” Do you have a source from Trent that I could review? Let’s exhaust this fallacy before we proceed to others in your post.

Peace,
David
 
The Council of Trent denounced every single doctrine that was proposed by the Protestant Reformers. It declared that any person who believes even one of these doctrines is “anathema." Where does that leave a Protestant? It leaves them “anathema” because of their non beliefs of the Catholic traditions and "anathema because of their Protestant beliefs. There were 125 anathema’s decreed at Trent, most of which were directed at the Reformers. In every case, the Reformed beliefs would send the believer to Hell because of the decree. These people are considered outside the church and therefore, outside of salvation because of there beliefs. I am quite sure you and I would both agree that this is what Trent stated so I will go on.

According to “The Catholic Encyclopedia,” the word “anathema” means “cursed and devoted to destruction”. When the Roman Catholic Church anathematizes someone, it officially declares that the person is condemned to hell. A link to this is below.

newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm

God Bless - JK
 
The Council of Trent denounced every single doctrine that was proposed by the Protestant Reformers. It declared that any person who believes even one of these doctrines is “anathema." Where does that leave a Protestant? It leaves them “anathema” because of their non beliefs of the Catholic traditions and "anathema because of their Protestant beliefs. There were 125 anathema’s decreed at Trent, most of which were directed at the Reformers. In every case, the Reformed beliefs would send the believer to Hell because of the decree. These people are considered outside the church and therefore, outside of salvation because of there beliefs. I am quite sure you and I would both agree that this is what Trent stated so I will go on.

According to “The Catholic Encyclopedia,” the word “anathema” means “cursed and devoted to destruction”. When the Roman Catholic Church anathematizes someone, it officially declares that the person is condemned to hell. A link to this is below.

newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm

God Bless - JK
Here is what I do not agree with. “In every case, the Reformed beliefs would send the believer to Hell because of the decree.” The Catholic Church which recieves its power from Christ does not have the power to condemn anyone to Hell.

Now the word “anathema” means cursed and devoted to destruction". However the article goes on to say, " In the New Testament
 
The Council of Trent denounced every single doctrine that was proposed by the Protestant Reformers. It declared that any person who believes even one of these doctrines is “anathema." Where does that leave a Protestant? It leaves them “anathema” because of their non beliefs of the Catholic traditions and "anathema because of their Protestant beliefs. There were 125 anathema’s decreed at Trent, most of which were directed at the Reformers. In every case, the Reformed beliefs would send the believer to Hell because of the decree. These people are considered outside the church and therefore, outside of salvation because of there beliefs. I am quite sure you and I would both agree that this is what Trent stated so I will go on.

According to “The Catholic Encyclopedia,” the word “anathema” means “cursed and devoted to destruction”. When the Roman Catholic Church anathematizes someone, it officially declares that the person is condemned to hell. A link to this is below.

newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm

God Bless - JK
JK,

Here is where I disagree. “In every case, the Reformed beliefs would send the believer to Hell because of the decree.” This is your personal opinion The Catholic Church does not have the power to condemn anyone to hell. A reason would be is it does not have the knowledge of who is there and who is not.

The word “anathema” means “cursed and devoted to destruction”.
However if you keep reading in the next paragraph it says, “In the New Testament anathema no longer entails death, but loss of goods or exclusion from the society of the faithful.” St. Paul uses anathema in this sense in his Epistle to the Romans. The Church continues to use anathema’s in accord with St. Paul, in the hope that this sanction not condemnation will bring to light the seriousness of a persons situation.

Does this help?
Peace,
David
 
I do thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut, I truly do. However, your last comment shows the Protestant position quite well. “will bring light to the seriousness of a persons situation”

These reformers were following the Scriptures alone. After all of the offensives that had taken place for hundreds of years by popes (please understand, I am not saying all popes but am rather speaking collectively as a group), these people simply wanted the right to follow the Scriptural teaching of the Lord. This is what was considered the seriousness of the situation. How strange is that. They were being condemned for the literal teachings of the Bible. Luther and Hus did not want to split the church, they simply wanted reform and for the abuses to cease. Do you now see the position that the Protestant is in. With these types of rulings, how can we embrace Rome. Keep in mind, as I stated in my first post, I am not at all speaking of you or of the others in here.
May the Lord Bless you and yours,
JK
 
Maybe I can shed so light on this issue. I am a Reformed Baptist. I do not consider the Catholic Church a relative in Christ as I would say a Methodist, Presbyterian and so on. The reason for this is at the counsel of Trent and Vatican 1, the Catholic Church stated that ALL believers that are outside the Catholic Church are anathema. They declared that all out side the Catholic Church are condemned to HELL. Also, this ruling was stated to be unreformable. How are we (true Christians out side of the Catholic faith) supposed to embrace the Catholic Church or even its members when such a silly and childish ruling still stands? To add insult to this, the new pope reaffirmed this ruling.
Maybe this will help:
Dr. Art Sippo writes “[No salvation outside the Church] was reiterated at Vatican II in Lumen Gentium Paragraph 14. Now formal membership is the ordinary means of salvation, but the Church has always accepted that there can be extenuating circumstances and that one may be related to the Catholic Church less formally [this will include many Christians of other denominations]. Technically, all validly baptized persons are members of the Catholic Church.”
Also some honest seekers, who through no fault of their own, did not learn about the the Catholic Church will be saved.

Peace.
 
this is my first post…so maybe Im not sure what Im doing…I was actually wanting to repsond to jsktheflash’s post and let that person know that I fully believe and back he or her up on what was written in that post, but Im not certain yet how to post behind the particular one Im wanting to respond to! 😊 Some good books to read concerning Biblical teaching would be just about any book written by Jack T Chick. Is it permissible for me to share a website in here?? I didnt want to break any rules??
Thanks
 
Maybe this will help:Dr. Art Sippo writes “[No salvation outside the Church] was reiterated at Vatican II in Lumen Gentium Paragraph 14. Now formal membership is the ordinary means of salvation, but the Church has always accepted that there can be extenuating circumstances and that one may be related to the Catholic Church less formally [this will include many Christians of other denominations]. Technically, all validly baptized persons are members of the Catholic Church.”

Also some honest seekers, who through no fault of their own, did not learn about the the Catholic Church will be saved.

Peace.
First, Romans 3 states that there is no God seeker. I know this because of the liberal Prot Churches that are out there that just want you to feel good and be happy, but that’s another subject.

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, means: “Outside the Church there is no salvation”.

How would this fit into the above??? How is it then possible that one could get salvation with out the CC. Technically, it is not by the Catholic standard. In one sense the CC decree is stating that it is not possible, on the other hand it states that it is a possibility under the right conditions. Could you please clarify this.
THANKS
JK
 
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