Baptists told to shun prayer w/ others; catholics are not christians

[Bible_Believer]

Hi ABostonCatholic!
I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church, and my brother is a Southern Baptist pastor, and attends the convention every time it meets. I am no longer Southern Baptist myself, but am a independant fundamental baptist…just curious…if it is ok to ask…
what was it that made you leave the Baptist church and become a Catholic. Just as a baptist, I am interested…not for sake of arguement or anything…
My best friend of 30 years is about as devout a Roman Catholic as you will find on this planet…so please know. Im not wanting to bash anyone…just found that interesting…
And as far as the shunning Catholics…I have never heard that as a platform in the Southern Baptist Convention or anything…and like I said…I grew up in that church, and still am a baptist, but I have no reason to shun a Roman Catholic. Yes, there are very big differences in the doctrines we believe, but like I said…my dearest friend in the world is a catholic. Id like to see too, where the southern baptist issue arose from and if there is truth behind it.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Hi ABostonCatholic!
I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church, and my brother is a Southern Baptist pastor, and attends the convention every time it meets. I am no longer Southern Baptist myself, but am a independant fundamental baptist…just curious…if it is ok to ask…
what was it that made you leave the Baptist church and become a Catholic. Just as a baptist, I am interested…not for sake of arguement or anything…
My best friend of 30 years is about as devout a Roman Catholic as you will find on this planet…so please know. Im not wanting to bash anyone…just found that interesting…
And as far as the shunning Catholics…I have never heard that as a platform in the Southern Baptist Convention or anything…and like I said…I grew up in that church, and still am a baptist, but I have no reason to shun a Roman Catholic. Yes, there are very big differences in the doctrines we believe, but like I said…my dearest friend in the world is a catholic. Id like to see too, where the southern baptist issue arose from and if there is truth behind it.

BB, PM me and we’ll talk.

It appears that the claim about the SBC is unfounded, as no one has produced the requested evidence, whilst others have given us good reason to doubt the claim. So again, I ask the mods to close the thread. Thank you, and Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Joab_Anias]

I appreciate all the replies. I am going to try to contact the speaker and ask him.

Any luck with that?

 

[Joab_Anias]

One of the Deacons in my church did the homily today. He mentioned this as well. I asked him for the source and he is going to get it for me. Mary, are you in Alabama?

Was he able to get it to you yet?

 

[inthecloud]

anathema=excommunion?

 

[jmcrae]

To jsktheflash, please start a new thread.

All I want here is the source where the SBC said these things, if they did. I don’t want my question to get bogged down in a bunch of heavy theology. At least not on this thread, anyway.

Thanks.

There is nothing that says so in direct words on the SBC web site; however, I did notice that they consider African Catholics to be legitimate targets for evangelism, and that they treat them as “non-Christians.”

This isn’t something to worry about - these opinions holds no clout with God - other than to try to help educate our fellow Catholics and protect them from whatever tactics the Baptists may be using to try to convince them that they are not actually Christians, or that it would be in some way better to be a Baptist than to be a Catholic. This means that we need to focus on strong Catechesis, and to make our people aware of the facts of history, so that they don’t get duped into believing various different kinds of mythology.

The most important thing they need to know is that Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church (Matthew 16:18019) and set Peter in charge of it (John 21:15-19), and that the Catholic Church traces its Papacy back to St. Peter in a straight, clear line.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

There is nothing that says so in direct words on the SBC web site; however, I did notice that they consider African Catholics to be legitimate targets for evangelism, and that they treat them as “non-Christians.”

Can you provide a link?

 

[jmcrae]

Can you provide a link?

Sure.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Sure.

Thank you. The position itself seems to be rather vague.
Baptist Press:

…
“We’re truly excited to see how [the Gospel] has moved,” said Grift, who has worked among the Sereer people for more than five years. “It’s been a long time coming.”
…
Most of the Sereer believe in a mix of Catholicism, Islam and spirit worship. The Sereer-Safen is one of six subgroups among the Sereer, numbering 1.4 million people.
…
Not all have been receptive to the life-changing events among the Sereer-Safen. One day, a Catholic priest challenged some of the new Safen believers about what they were teaching.

The people aren’t wholly Catholic, it seems, but the Catholics are opposing what the Baptists are doing, and rightly so. We have no way of knowing if the priests were working to bring them to full Christianity without admixture of any paganism. Often, priests have to gradually wean people from their old ways of life lest they go back to them after a sudden conversion.

Of course, that raises the questions of the long-term success of the Baptists’ mission works. But that’s another topic. I don’t want this thread to turn into an OSAS debate (and I don’t think Little Mary wants it to, either)!

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Resolution On Southern Baptists And Roman Catholics
June 1994

WHEREAS, Certain Roman Catholic and Evangelical leaders in the United States of America have recently issued an unofficial document “Evangelicals and Catholics Together,” calling for a recognition of issues of both agreement and disagreement, and a commitment to work toward greater understanding; and

WHEREAS, Many Roman Catholics and Southern Baptists have found in recent years a common area of agreement in their concern for the sanctity of human life, their opposition to the spread of pornography in our society, their commitment to traditional family values, their concern for securing the rights of all individuals without respect to differences of religion, race, gender, and class, and many other areas of moral concern; and

WHEREAS, Southern Baptists have historically confessed with all true Christians everywhere belief in the Triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the full deity and perfect humanity of Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, His sinless life, His substitutionary atonement for sins, His resurrection from the dead, His exaltation to the right hand of God, and His triumphal return, and we recognize that born again believers in the Lord Jesus Christ may be found in all Christian denominations; and

WHEREAS, Baptists have historically differed from Roman Catholics on such matters as: the nature and means of salvation, the character and function of the church, the role and interpretation of baptism and the Lord’s Supper, devotion to the Virgin Mary, the veneration of the Saints, papal infallibility, the structure of church government, and the relation of Scripture and tradition as sources of spiritual and teaching authority for belief and practice; and

WHEREAS, Southern Baptists are strongly committed to world evangelization and are commanded by Christ in His Great Commission to share the Gospel with every nation, nationality, people group, and person; and

WHEREAS, The Foreign Mission Board trustees on April 27, 1994, by unanimous resolution, expressed concern that the Evangelical-Catholic document is subject to interpretations harmful to Southern Baptist work of global witness and missionary outreach.

Therefore Be it RESOLVED, That the 137th annual session of the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Orlando, Florida, June 14-16, 1994, affirms the benefit of conversation with any religious group, which is willing objectively and openly to discuss their faith, and to examine it on the basis of Holy Scripture, and on such basis we encourage the Interfaith Witness Department of the Home Mission Board to pursue on-going Southern Baptist-Roman Catholic conversation while maintaining our Southern Baptist confession without compromise; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That due to the degeneration of moral values and ethical norms, coupled with the loss of meaning in people’s lives and the relative status ascribed to historic truth claims in our contemporary world, we call for endeavors to bring about cooperative efforts on the part of all Christian organizations to present united support for pressing social and moral concerns; and we call on all religious bodies to affirm the importance of religious liberty and all of its expressions including the freedom to evangelize among all peoples everywhere; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we confess the historic Baptist doctrine of justification, namely, that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without any addition of good works or human efforts; and we affirm that justification by faith alone is an essential of the Christian message, **and we deny any view of salvation that adds to or subtracts from the sole sufficiency of Jesus Christ as Redeemer and Lord; **and

Be it further RESOLVED, That the Bible is the inspired and inerrant Word of God and is the infallible touchstone by which all other authorities, teachers, and traditions must be judged; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That the Southern Baptist Convention affirm its commitment to evangelism and missionary witness among populations and individuals not characterized by genuine faith in Christ alone, and **we reject any suggestion that such witness be characterized as “sheep stealing” proselytizing or a wasteful use of resources; **and

Be it finally RESOLVED, That Southern Baptists reaffirm their commitment to evangelism and global missions and renew their intent to share Christ with all people everywhere to the end that the unsaved may be converted and the unchurched may become a part of Bible-teaching, Christ-honoring congregations.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Resolution On Diplomatic Relations With The Vatican
June 1993

WHEREAS, Southern Baptists have always championed religious liberty and the separation of the institutions of church and state; and

WHEREAS, Southern Baptists have been in the forefront of opposition to the appointment of an United States Ambassador to the Vatican and the reception of an ambassador from the Vatican to the United States; and

WHEREAS, **The Holy See of the Roman Catholic Church is an ecclesiastical entity synonymous with the Roman Catholic Church; **and

WHEREAS, The Holy See is located in an entity called the State of Vatican City which is headed by the Bishop of Rome and in which office and citizenship are conditioned on some relationship with the Roman Catholic Church; and

WHEREAS, Maintaining diplomatic relations with the Vatican is clearly a violation of the First Amendment’s guarantee of separation between the institutions of church and state; and

WHEREAS, Opposition to diplomatic relations with the Holy See should not be regarded as religious bigotry against Roman Catholics but instead as reaffirmation of a long-held Baptist conviction; and

WHEREAS, Southern Baptists have registered their opposition to this public policy by adopting resolutions at annual meetings in 1939, 1940, 1942, 1969, 1984, and 1986; and

WHEREAS, In 1983 the United States Congress repealed the federal law which explicitly barred diplomatic relations with the Vatican; and

WHEREAS, President Ronald Reagan successfully appointed America’s first ambassador to the Vatican in 1984 over the vigorous objections of Southern Baptists and others opposed to this policy; and

WHEREAS, President Clinton is both a Southern Baptist and a professed advocate of church-state separation; and

WHEREAS, The President, contrary to the request of the Southern Baptist Christian Life Commission and other evangelicals, has nominated a candidate to be the next United States Ambassador to the Vatican.

Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That we, the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Houston, Texas, June 15-17, 1993, reaffirm our opposition to diplomatic ties with the Vatican; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we urge the United States Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the entire United States Senate to reject the nomination and to restore the federal law which barred diplomatic relations with the Vatican; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we urge President Clinton to reconsider his position and revoke diplomatic relations with the Vatican; and

Be it finally RESOLVED, That we assure Roman Catholics that we are not acting on the basis of any bigotry against them, their spiritual leader or their strongly held convictions and that we express our desire to continue working with Roman Catholics on moral, social and public policy issues of mutual agreement.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Those are the two most recent resolutions I could find regarding Catholics.

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you. The position itself seems to be rather vague.

The people aren’t wholly Catholic, it seems, but the Catholics are opposing what the Baptists are doing, and rightly so. We have no way of knowing if the priests were working to bring them to full Christianity without admixture of any paganism. Often, priests have to gradually wean people from their old ways of life lest they go back to them after a sudden conversion.

My personal experience, having worked with converts in RCIA, is that those who don’t take the time (typically, about two or three years) to gradually change their lifestyle, one piece at a time, to a Catholic lifestyle, tend to fall away. A lot of people think that they are just going to suddenly wake up one morning and “be Catholic,” but in reality, it takes time to develop all of the little habits that Cathoilcs don’t even think about, really - daily morning offering, evening prayer, prayer before and after meals, etc., and when you are starting off without even really knowing who Jesus is, or what the Church is, the road is even longer, yet.

Of course, that raises the questions of the long-term success of the Baptists’ mission works.

Yes - of the ten who were baptized, how many will still be living an undiluted Baptist lifestyle, in five years time? (Do Baptists still forbid dancing? I think that one would be a difficult one to live out, in Africa.)

 

[po18guy]

My best friend of 30 years is about as devout a Roman Catholic as you will find on this planet…so please know. Im not wanting to bash anyone…just found that interesting.

Allow the life your friend leads to reveal the fullness of Catholicism, as well as conversations here. Please disregard, for the moment, anything that Jack Chick has written and let God Himself speak to your heart regarding the faith. We, at times, may sound condescending or arrogant. No such thing is intended, we boast only in our Lord, who is Lord of all. Welcome and we look forward to a genuine and Spirit-filled dialog.

The peace of Christ always be with you.

 

[inthecloud]

“The catholic positions can only be proven outside of the Bible with a claim of infallibility in interpretation by the pope. Meaning, many of its positions are not provable because they depend on the testimony of man and his fallible ways.” A atheist or non christian could made the same claim of the Bible. Just chage Pope for Bible. And is a missrepersenation of the magisterium.

About the Baptist missions to the third world, most converts will end up Pentecostals within a few years. The Assembly of God, Church of God and Forusquare Gospel should give the SBS a commision.
OSAS does not fit well in third world heads proving we are not that dumb after all.

 

[po18guy]

Thank you. The position itself seems to be rather vague. The people aren’t wholly Catholic, it seems, but the Catholics are opposing what the Baptists are doing, and rightly so. We have no way of knowing if the priests were working to bring them to full Christianity without admixture of any paganism. Often, priests have to gradually wean people from their old ways of life lest they go back to them after a sudden conversion. Of course, that raises the questions of the long-term success of the Baptists’ mission works. But that’s another topic. I don’t want this thread to turn into an OSAS debate (and I don’t think Little Mary wants it to, either)!

The danger of targeting African Catholics is that a high percentage of vocations to the priesthood and the consecrated life are to be found in Africa. Thus, the church is in danger of suffering a greater loss from the predation of anti-Catholics of whatever stripe.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Little_Mary]

I will try again to get in touch with the speaker.

 

[ralphinal]

Sorry that it has taken me so long to get the information on here. It is from “Southern Baptist Shun Common Prayer,” Orlando Sentinel, November 14, 2001, p. A1. The article was written by Mark Pinsky.

a link to the abstract
pqasb.pqarchiver.com/orlandosentinel/access/89772831.html?dids=89772831:89772831&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Nov+14%2C+2001&author=Mark+I.+Pinsky%2C+Sentinel+Staff+Writer&pub=Orlando+Sentinel&edition=&startpage=A.1&desc=SOUTHERN+BAPTISTS+SHUN+COMMON+PRAYER+

I did not feel like paying for the whole article.

 

[war_eagle]

I was told today that the Southern Baptist Convention, when they met this summer, encouraged its members to shun prayer with other christians, and that catholics are considered a “cult” of sorts, not good.

Southern Baptist for about twenty years and have never heard this.

We pray with other Christians regularly and I don’t think I’ve ever known any other SBC members or SBC churches who wouldn’t, as long as their beliefs are orthodox.

As for Roman Catholics, I don’t believe it’s a cult and, as far as I know, the SBC has never classified it as such.

I know that this is going to make a lot of people mad, but if I’m going to answer your question honestly, then I’ve got to say it.

I can’t say that some Roman Catholics aren’t Christians. However, there are such gaping problems with Roman Catholic theology that I can’t say with any real confidence that they are, either.

I hate the idea of hurting anybody’s feelings, but I can’t lie about it.

Can anyone direct me to sources for this? I want to clarify what I heard.

Typically, questions like this are answered in the Baptist Faith and Message.

 

[war_eagle]

Sorry that it has taken me so long to get the information on here. It is from “Southern Baptist Shun Common Prayer,” Orlando Sentinel, November 14, 2001, p. A1. The article was written by Mark Pinsky.

a link to the abstract
pqasb.pqarchiver.com/orlandosentinel/access/89772831.html?dids=89772831:89772831&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Nov+14%2C+2001&author=Mark+I.+Pinsky%2C+Sentinel+Staff+Writer&pub=Orlando+Sentinel&edition=&startpage=A.1&desc=SOUTHERN+BAPTISTS+SHUN+COMMON+PRAYER+

I did not feel like paying for the whole article.

The blurb you linked to said “inter-faith gatherings”, which, to the Christian, doesn’t mean other Christian denoms, but other religions.