Baptists vs. Catholicism

[Pastor_Jim]

But Catholics were the first to see it for what it meant.

Sure they were. If that helps you to justify your beliefs, then you go right on believing that.

Believing in the bible is one thing, king james another

I’m talking about the Bible, not King James.

Again back to the “call no one but me Father” quote, use common sense it means the same thing

Actually, it doesn’t. Common sense would tell you that the two verses are completely unrelated.

Again, what is this “paradise” then? Purgatory?

No. There is no such thing as Purgatory. Paradise was the place where the righteous Jews of the OT went when they died to await the fulfilment of Christ’s atonement on their behalf.

Now, this is the part where you tell me that I’m wrong and that I’ve misinterpreted the verse, even though I haven’t cited a verse in this case and even though you can’t show any scripture to the contrary and are unable to tell me what the correct “interpretation” is.

So there are no people in Hevean or hell?

Yes, there are people in Heaven and Hell.

and if yes then why the need for a 2nd judgement? Surley God could get it right on the first try!

It has nothing to do with God not getting it right. It has to do with God’s plan being perfectly just.

jmcrae:

No - simply that members of the Ku Klux Klan, which is a men’s fraternal organization affiliated with the Baptist Church

Do you have any evidence to back up this outrageous claim?

 

[jmcrae]

There’s a big difference between individuals holding membership in both a Baptist church and the Ku Klux Klan and religious murders being decreed by a Baptist denomination.

Funny how whenever somebody points out the pedophile priest epidemic, you insist that the priests don’t represent your organization but when a Baptist does something wrong, automatically, you try to tie it in as an official act of the denomination.

Nice try, though.

No - simply that members of the Ku Klux Klan, which is a men’s fraternal organization affiliated with the Baptist Church, authorized a lot of killings, and committed a lot of killings, because of their religious beliefs regarding race and status.

Just as members of the Inquisition, which was composed of men who were also members of the Catholic Church, went overboard on their mandate to eliminate heresy, back in the Middle Ages.

 

[Josh316]

Sure they were. If that helps you to justify your beliefs, then you go right on believing that.

“Prove me wrong, if you want proof that I am right then look at any website that you personally deem respectable”

I’m talking about the Bible, not King James.

“No, you read the kjv which has removed 7 books of the Bible”

Actually, it doesn’t. Common sense would tell you that the two verses are completely unrelated.

“Of course they are unrelated, I’m Catholic and call priests father, again I think you don’t understand my posts. I said if the bible is open to personal interpretation then someone might make the mistake and connect the two. Thank God we have the Holy Spirit to guide our Church.”

No. There is no such thing as Purgatory. Paradise was the place where the righteous Jews of the OT went when they died to await the fulfilment of Christ’s atonement on their behalf.

Now, this is the part where you tell me that I’m wrong and that I’ve misinterpreted the verse, even though I haven’t cited a verse in this case and even though you can’t show any scripture to the contrary and are unable to tell me what the correct “interpretation” is.

"Actually that sounds pretty good. But the problem is that the man on the cross next to Jesus was Judged by him right there and then hence “you will be WITH ME! Did Jesus go to a so-called paradise or Heaven after his crucifixion? As far as being able to provide proof of purgatory in scripture, I would, but again you have kjv not the bible, hence you can’t read 2 Maccabees 12 v 38-46 which would also debunk your “praying to the dead is sinful” remark.”

Yes, there are people in Heaven and Hell.

“Then why the need for the second judgement?”

.

 

[jmcrae]

Sure they were. If that helps you to justify your beliefs, then you go right on believing that.

Prove me wrong, if you want proof that I am right then look at any website that you personally deem respectable

I’m talking about the Bible, not King James.

No, you read the kjv which has removed 7 books of the Bible

Actually, it doesn’t. Common sense would tell you that the two verses are completely unrelated.

Of course they are unrelated, I’m Catholic and call priests father, again I think you don’t understand my posts. I said if the bible is open to personal interpretation then someone might make the mistake and connect the two. Thank God we have the Holy Spirit to guide our Church.

No. There is no such thing as Purgatory. Paradise was the place where the righteous Jews of the OT went when they died to await the fulfilment of Christ’s atonement on their behalf.

Now, this is the part where you tell me that I’m wrong and that I’ve misinterpreted the verse, even though I haven’t cited a verse in this case and even though you can’t show any scripture to the contrary and are unable to tell me what the correct “interpretation” is.

Actually that sounds pretty good. But the problem is that the man on the cross next to Jesus was Judged by him right there and then hence "you will be WITH ME! Did Jesus go to a so-called paradise or Heaven after his crucifixion? As far as being able to provide proof of purgatory in scripture, I would, but again you have kjv not the bible, hence you can’t read 2 Maccabees 12 v 38-46 which would also debunk your “praying to the dead is sinful” remark.

Yes, there are people in Heaven and Hell.

Then why the need for the second judgement?

.

Could it be possible for you to use the “quote” feature to distinguish between what you are saying, and what you are replying to?

It would make it a whole lot easier to read and follow. Thanks!

 

[Josh316]

Could it be possible for you to use the “quote” feature to distinguish between what you are saying, and what you are replying to?

It would make it a whole lot easier to read and follow. Thanks!

I apologize but I am pushing the quote button I don’t know what went wrong but I will manually put quotations around my remarks.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

No, you read the kjv which has removed 7 books of the Bible

The KJV is the Bible.

Of course they are unrelated, I’m Catholic and call priests father, again I think you don’t understand my posts. I said if the bible is open to personal interpretation then someone might make the mistake and connect the two. Thank God we have the Holy Spirit to guide our Church.

Thank God we have the Holy Spirit revealing the truth of God’s word to guide our church.

Actually that sounds pretty good. But the problem is that the man on the cross next to Jesus was Judged by him right there and then hence "you will be WITH ME! Did Jesus go to a so-called paradise or Heaven after his crucifixion?

He went to Hades.

As far as being able to provide proof of purgatory in scripture, I would, but again you have kjv not the bible, hence you can’t read 2 Maccabees 12 v 38-46 which would also debunk your “praying to the dead is sinful” remark.

It isn’t a matter of not being able to read it. It’s a matter of not accepting it as inspired scripture.

Funny, but Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons use the same logic you’re using when they try to get me to read their texts.

Then why the need for the second judgement?

Because God, in His perfect wisdom and justice, has decided that one day, the living and the dead will be judged at the Bema Seat and the White Throne and He will, once and for all, pour out His wrath on sinners, while showing His great mercy on those who have repented and put their faith in Christ.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

It would make it a whole lot easier to read and follow. Thanks!

You can save time by just interpreting everything he says as “Jim’s not a Catholic. Therefore, nothing he says and nothing he quotes the Bible as saying can possibly be right.”

 

[Josh316]

The KJV is the Bible.

“Which one of the 8 versions? Oh, wait don’t tell me the “authorized” version got ya”

Thank God we have the Holy Spirit revealing the truth of God’s word to guide our church."

“So you’re Catholic.”

It isn’t a matter of not being able to read it. It’s a matter of not accepting it as inspired scripture.

“Who are you to decide what’s inspired?”

Funny, but Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons use the same logic you’re using when they try to get me to read their texts.

“Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormons are not Christians so this comment doesn’t make sense.”

 

[Josh316]

You can save time by just interpreting everything he says as “Jim’s not a Catholic. Therefore, nothing he says and nothing he quotes the Bible as saying can possibly be right.”

Look Jim, I don’t know what it’s worth to you but I’m sorry for coming off harsh. It’s just that I am Catholic and am very passionate about my beliefs and I do get angry and start spouting off at the mouth sometimes so I do apologize.

 

[jmcrae]

The KJV is the Bible.

It is one version of the Bible, yes. Actually, the Deuterocanon of the Old Testament was not removed until about 100 years after the death of King James. He himself would have been horrified, of course. (His mother was Mary Stuart, who, though not a scholar herself, surrounded herself with the best theologians and made sure that her son’s religious education was of the highest caliber.)

He went to Hades.

This is true. Score one for the Baptist.

He remained in Hades for three days, preaching to the souls of the dead. Those who accepted His preaching followed Him into Heaven on Resurrection morning - the remainder will stay in Hell for all eternity.

Because God, in His perfect wisdom and justice, has decided that one day, the living and the dead will be judged at the Bema Seat and the White Throne and He will, once and for all, pour out His wrath on sinners, while showing His great mercy on those who have repented and put their faith in Christ.

Strange - I find no mention of the “Bema Seat” anywhere in any translation of the Bible that I have - including the King James.

However, yes, there are two judgments - the Particular Judgment, which occurs at the time of death, for each individual, and the Judgment of the Nations, when all will be revealed publicly, on the Last Day. On that day, both Purgatory and Earth will be emptied of all human inhabitants - there will be Heaven, and there will be Hell, and all judgments will be past.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Okay, I see a lot of polemics and rhetoric on both sides here and very little actual substance and evidence to support any positions and since this is an apologetics thread in an apologetics forum, this thread is now closed.

This topic is overly broad anyway, so pick a single doctrine and try again.

I also want this to stand as a general charity warning, as this thread has devolved below the charity standards that CAF’s Forum Rules and Banned Topics require.
MF