Baptizing a 10 year old

[ac_claire]

the sacrament may not be denied to any adult who is prepared and worthily disposed and asks for the sacrament. The bishop decides who is prepared and worthily disposed.

The manner for arriving at that condition is the RCIA in all its prescriptions, as adapted by the US Bishops for use in the US and as particular law enacted by the bishop of each dioceses implements. Period. The RCIA acknowledges the special status of catechumens, that should they die before baptism they are presumed to have desired the sacrament and therefore are according Christian burial etc.

Ok this way of putting it makes a lot more sense. I guess I am just reading this thread and getting confused thinking of all the people I know (me and a couple others IRL, the others online) who were not baptised at the Easter Vigil.

But we are but talking about the middle of the Amazon here. I know some cities here are called “Concrete Jungles”!

Yeah…that example I gave was maybe not rhetorically fair lol. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Most of us in the developed world today aren’t in a situation that’s remotely like some of the people the Church has evangelized and baptized in her history.

 

[chaunceygardner]

What we want sometimes does not matter. In this case the Church requires that all three Sacraments be received together. In the Eastern Church an infant receives all three together.

Phemie:

Confirmation isn’t about what the confirmand does but what the sacrament does to the confirmand. It’s not a sacrament of maturity nor about commitment since one is a full member of the church from the time one is baptized. Babies who are in danger of dying are to be baptized AND confirmed if possible – but in the Latin Rite they can’t receive Communion since for that they must be able to understand what they are doing.

Both Canon Law and the Catechism list Confirmation as the 2nd sacrament of initiation, not the 3rd and last. Eucharist was the culmination of initiation until 100 years ago and several dioceses have taken steps to return the sacraments to their original order at the age of reason.

Consider the fact that at the age of 10 the child is making her own commitment to be baptized. That is THE commitment – Confirmation completes that but is in no way a greater commitment.

I appreciate your responses and clarifications, which bring up another question: If both the Sacraments (Baptism and Confirmation) can and should be received together in many cases, what does Confirmation add that the Sacrament of Baptism doesn’t already provide? The second quote says that Baptism makes the recipient a full member of the Church; so why is Confirmation necessary? I am a little unclear on that.

Thank you.

 

[agapewolf]

I appreciate your responses and clarifications, which bring up another question: If both the Sacraments (Baptism and Confirmation) can and should be received together in many cases, what does Confirmation add that the Sacrament of Baptism doesn’t already provide? The second quote says that Baptism makes the recipient a full member of the Church; so why is Confirmation necessary? I am a little unclear on that.

Thank you.

Baptism opens the door to the grace. Confirmation makes the spirit move. Both such big and important parts of the Christian life that they are made distinct from each other and held up as sacraments.

Baptism is like Hershey’s choclate syrup (the Holy Spirit) being poored into a glass of milk (but sitting at the bottom). Confirmation gives you the spoon to stir it up. (Gotta keep stirring or it will settle).

 

[Joannm]

=

Baptism opens the door to the grace. Confirmation makes the spirit move. Both such big and important parts of the Christian life that they are made distinct from each other and held up as sacraments.

Baptism is like Hershey’s choclate syrup (the Holy Spirit) being poored into a glass of milk (but sitting at the bottom). Confirmation gives you the spoon to stir it up. (Gotta keep stirring or it will settle).

I like that analogy…but then I like anything Hershey.

 

[jmcrae]

Hello… I have not spoken to my Deacon or Priest about this yet but I thought I would try it out here before I did to see if it is even an option.

My daughter is 10 years old. I have never baptized her. My husband and I are currently taking RCIA and my daughter is taking religous education classes at our parish.

My husband and I are having our marriage convalidated sometime next year before lent. Is it possible that we can also baptize our daughter at the same time.

Our Diocese would like children over 7 to receive all three sacraments at the same time, but I would like to baptize her before she receives her First Communion and Confitmation.

So would the Church.

Do you think this would be possible? Or is it a pretty strict rule that we cannot go out of order?

I’m hoping that from what the others have been telling you, that you have already realized that there is absolutely no way your child will be receiving any of the other Sacraments before she is baptized. She is just auditing the First Communion classes; she will not be going forward with the other children in her class, because of the fact that she is not yet baptized.

Baptism is the first Sacrament of Initiation, which opens the door to all of the other Sacraments, followed (n the case of converts) by Confirmation, and thirdly, First Holy Communion. After that, she can make use of the Sacrament of Reconciliation as needed (the precept of the Church is that we receive it at least once a year), and when she is of age (presuming she chooses it for herself) Marriage, and when she is sick, the Sacrament of Anointing. But none of that, before she is baptized. She has to be baptized first, exactly as you have described how you want it to be.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I appreciate your responses and clarifications, which bring up another question: If both the Sacraments (Baptism and Confirmation) can and should be received together in many cases, what does Confirmation add that the Sacrament of Baptism doesn’t already provide? The second quote says that Baptism makes the recipient a full member of the Church; so why is Confirmation necessary? I am a little unclear on that.

Thank you.

Confirmation is a Sacrament of it’s own. It does not add anything to Baptism, Baptism is complete in itself. Baptism removes Original Sin and personal sin in an adult, instills the Holy Spirit, and makes a person a member of the Mystical Body of Christ. Confirmation fortifies the Holy Spirit and supplies the Gifts of the Spirit to prepare the Christian for life in the world. Holy Communion Unites the person with the life of Christ as a member of His Mystical Body.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

I was baptized at the age of 10 (as a Methodist).

My first communion, first confession, and confirmation in the Catholic church were this year at the ripe old age of 51. Thanks to the prayers of my wife and my daughter and the intercession of St Philomena and St John Marie Vianney.

God has a plan, we just have to say “Yes” to it.

John Marie Philomena

 

[ac_claire]

I appreciate your responses and clarifications, which bring up another question: If both the Sacraments (Baptism and Confirmation) can and should be received together in many cases, what does Confirmation add that the Sacrament of Baptism doesn’t already provide? The second quote says that Baptism makes the recipient a full member of the Church; so why is Confirmation necessary? I am a little unclear on that.

I also like the Hershey’s syrup analogy. The more you think about it, the more it makes sense.

The way it was explained to me in my Confirmation class is that it’s like a “booster shot”; an infusion of grace that strengthens us to be full-fledged Christian adults in the world. The online Catholic encyclopedia at New Advent says:

Confirmation imparts:

• *an increase of sanctifying grace which makes the recipient a “perfect Christian”; *
• *a special sacramental grace consisting in the seven gifts of the Holy Ghost and notably in the strength and courage to confess boldly the name of Christ; *
• an indelible character by reason of which the sacrament cannot be received again by the same person.

Hope that helps!

 

[choy]

Just to claify, this would apply to a person Baptized as an infant. Not an adult (a person over the age of reason) seeking Baptism.

of course Brother Rich. i am speaking within the context of the thread which is baptizing a 10 year old. in most dioceses i know the confirmation age is above 10, usually 12 or 13. i even learned from my Korean PREP student that in Korea, or at least in their diocese there its 15

 

[chaunceygardner]

The way it was explained to me in my Confirmation class is that it’s like a “booster shot”; an infusion of grace that strengthens us to be full-fledged Christian adults in the world. The online Catholic encyclopedia at New Advent says:

Confirmation imparts:

• *an increase of sanctifying grace which makes the recipient a “perfect Christian”; *
• *a special sacramental grace consisting in the seven gifts of the Holy Ghost and notably in the strength and courage to confess boldly the name of Christ; *
• an indelible character by reason of which the sacrament cannot be received again by the same person.

Br. Rich SFO:

Confirmation is a Sacrament of it’s own. It does not add anything to Baptism, Baptism is complete in itself. Baptism removes Original Sin and personal sin in an adult, instills the Holy Spirit, and makes a person a member of the Mystical Body of Christ. Confirmation fortifies the Holy Spirit and supplies the Gifts of the Spirit to prepare the Christian for life in the world. Holy Communion Unites the person with the life of Christ as a member of His Mystical Body.

That helps, thanks, but there appears to be some disagreement, at least in how these two responses are stated. Maybe it is just my denseness in following the explanations.

***Brother Rich ***says that Baptism is “complete in itself”, and that Confirmation “fortifies the Holy Spirit and supplies the Gifts of the Spirit”. ***ac claire ***says much the same and says (quoting the Catholic Encyclopedia) that Confirmation imparts “an indelible character” and “an increase of sanctifying grace”.

My question is: Doesn’t Baptism do all of that? And, is there something lacking in a Catholic who has been Baptized but not Confirmed? It sounds as if Baptism is not complete, that it is like getting your first dose of grace, but that Confirmation is needed to be “fully protected” and fully Catholic. That seems to make the first “dose”, Baptism, incomplete.

I guess that is why I have looked upon Confirmation as a Sacramental step in which the person makes a commitment to Christ and in turn receives the grace imparted by the Sacrament. They have already been Baptized into the Church and now are at the point where they can take the next step. In order to do that the person must have the ability to understand what they are undertaking and make an adult level affirmation, something I doubt most seven year olds, or even twelve year olds can do.

That is why I was somewhat surprised at the idea of having Baptism, First Communion AND Confirmation all done at the same time for a child.

The other question that comes to mind is: Does a Catholic have to be Confirmed in order to be married in the Church , or is only Baptism required?

 

[kage_ar]

When all else fails, read the Catechism

The footnotes will take you deeper into the Scriptures and full documents. Posting the first paragraph here and the link so you can read the entire section:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a2.htm#1285

1285 Baptism, the Eucharist, and the sacrament of Confirmation together constitute the “sacraments of Christian initiation,” whose unity must be safeguarded. It must be explained to the faithful that the reception of the sacrament of Confirmation is necessary for the completion of baptismal grace.89 For "by the sacrament of Confirmation, [the baptized] are more perfectly bound to the Church and are enriched with a special strength of the Holy Spirit. Hence they are, as true witnesses of Christ, more strictly obliged to spread and defend the faith by word and deed."90

 

[Phemie]

I guess that is why I have looked upon Confirmation as a Sacramental step in which the person makes a commitment to Christ and in turn receives the grace imparted by the Sacrament. They have already been Baptized into the Church and now are at the point where they can take the next step. In order to do that the person must have the ability to understand what they are undertaking and make an adult level affirmation, something I doubt most seven year olds, or even twelve year olds can do.

The main requirement is that one be able to renew one’s baptismal promises. At 7 or 8 and even at 6 for some kids, most children who have Baptism and Confirmation well explained to them are quite able to renew their baptismal promises. I certainly was when I was confirmed at age 7 almost 50 years ago.

Pushing Confirmation further and further back is a product of the 70s & 80s when doing so was done to keep the youth in religious ed programs. I know that when my dad was a kid (back in the 20s) and I was a kid (50s-60s) Confirmation was conferred on everyone who’d received First Communion since the Bishop had last come to the parish. Since he showed up every two years, confirmands were quite young as a rule. We weren’t too young to be made to take ‘The Pledge’ and not that of Allegiance but the Pledge to refrain from consuming alcohol until we were 21. We were so aware of what we were doing that a friend of mine, 7 or 8 at the time, refused to do so saying, “What if I get married before I turn 21? I want to be able to have a drink at my wedding.”

 

[choy]

That helps, thanks, but there appears to be some disagreement, at least in how these two responses are stated. Maybe it is just my denseness in following the explanations.

***Brother Rich ***says that Baptism is “complete in itself”, and that Confirmation “fortifies the Holy Spirit and supplies the Gifts of the Spirit”. ***ac claire ***says much the same and says (quoting the Catholic Encyclopedia) that Confirmation imparts “an indelible character” and “an increase of sanctifying grace”.

My question is: Doesn’t Baptism do all of that? And, is there something lacking in a Catholic who has been Baptized but not Confirmed? It sounds as if Baptism is not complete, that it is like getting your first dose of grace, but that Confirmation is needed to be “fully protected” and fully Catholic. That seems to make the first “dose”, Baptism, incomplete.

I guess that is why I have looked upon Confirmation as a Sacramental step in which the person makes a commitment to Christ and in turn receives the grace imparted by the Sacrament. They have already been Baptized into the Church and now are at the point where they can take the next step. In order to do that the person must have the ability to understand what they are undertaking and make an adult level affirmation, something I doubt most seven year olds, or even twelve year olds can do.

That is why I was somewhat surprised at the idea of having Baptism, First Communion AND Confirmation all done at the same time for a child.

The other question that comes to mind is: Does a Catholic have to be Confirmed in order to be married in the Church , or is only Baptism required?

for a full catholic wedding, yes, both parties should be baptized, confirmed and have received first communion. and should have had confession before the wedding.

 

[Janet1983]

Thank you for the clarification. I understand that Confirmation should occur between the age of reason and the age of 16, according to the U.S. Bishops Conference. I would think that an older age would be more appropriate, for then the Confirmand would be better able to understand and assent to what he/she is undertaking. In the RCIA program, I can see where Confirmation would occur at the same time, but I am not sure I follow the reasoning for performing all the sacraments at the same time for someone who is 8 or 9 years old.

My opinion is that Confirmation should occur at an even older age than 15 or 16, and be a true personal and mature decision to become a “full” member of the Church. Today it seems almost as automatic as Baptism, which for me takes away much of the signficance of the Sacrament.

Agreed.
When I was 14 all the kids in my class went to Confirmation. I actually went ahead and wrote a 2-page handwritten letter to the pastor telling him that I did not consider myself ready yet. He let the matter rest because of that. When I was 16 I went ahead and asked him for the next possibility to receive confirmation… I received it at the age of 16…

PS: I thought I wasn’t ready yet, because I was about to do it (and say whatever I had to say etc.) just because everybody else was doing it. I figured that this was not the right motivation.

 

[kage_ar]

Agreed.
When I was 14 all the kids in my class went to Confirmation. I actually went ahead and wrote a 2-page handwritten letter to the pastor telling him that I did not consider myself ready yet. He let the matter rest because of that. When I was 16 I went ahead and asked him for the next possibility to receive confirmation… I received it at the age of 16…

PS: I thought I wasn’t ready yet, because I was about to do it (and say whatever I had to say etc.) just because everybody else was doing it. I figured that this was not the right motivation.

Sadly, many Parishes do not explain WHAT Confirmation is. It is not something anyone can be ready for - except to be in a state of grace. It is NOT about you doing something, not about you “making an adult confession of faith”. It is all about what God does for YOU.

 

[Phemie]

Agreed.
When I was 14 all the kids in my class went to Confirmation. I actually went ahead and wrote a 2-page handwritten letter to the pastor telling him that I did not consider myself ready yet. He let the matter rest because of that. When I was 16 I went ahead and asked him for the next possibility to receive confirmation… I received it at the age of 16…

PS: I thought I wasn’t ready yet, because I was about to do it (and say whatever I had to say etc.) just because everybody else was doing it. I figured that this was not the right motivation.

**1306 ** Every baptized person not yet confirmed can and should receive the sacrament of Confirmation.123 Since Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist form a unity, it follows that "the faithful are obliged to receive this sacrament at the appropriate time,"124 for without Confirmation and Eucharist, Baptism is certainly valid and efficacious, but Christian initiation remains incomplete.

**1307 **For centuries, Latin custom has indicated “the age of discretion” as the reference point for receiving Confirmation. But in danger of death children should be confirmed even if they have not yet attained the age of discretion.125

**1308 ** Although Confirmation is sometimes called the “sacrament of Christian maturity,” we must not confuse adult faith with the adult age of natural growth, nor forget that the baptismal grace is a grace of free, unmerited election and does not need “ratification” to become effective. St. Thomas reminds us of this:
Age of body does not determine age of soul. Even in childhood man can attain spiritual maturity: as the book of Wisdom says: "For old age is not honored for length of time, or measured by number of years. "Many children, through the strength of the Holy Spirit they have received, have bravely fought for Christ even to the shedding of their blood.126 **

1309 ** *Preparation *for Confirmation should aim at leading the Christian toward a more intimate union with Christ and a more lively familiarity with the Holy Spirit - his actions, his gifts, and his biddings - in order to be more capable of assuming the apostolic responsibilities of Christian life. To this end catechesis for Confirmation should strive to awaken a sense of belonging to the Church of Jesus Christ, the universal Church as well as the parish community. The latter bears special responsibility for the preparation of confirmands.127

 

[ac_claire]

That helps, thanks, but there appears to be some disagreement, at least in how these two responses are stated. Maybe it is just my denseness in following the explanations.

***Brother Rich ***says that Baptism is “complete in itself”, and that Confirmation “fortifies the Holy Spirit and supplies the Gifts of the Spirit”. ***ac claire ***says much the same and says (quoting the Catholic Encyclopedia) that Confirmation imparts “an indelible character” and “an increase of sanctifying grace”.

My question is: Doesn’t Baptism do all of that? And, is there something lacking in a Catholic who has been Baptized but not Confirmed? It sounds as if Baptism is not complete, that it is like getting your first dose of grace, but that Confirmation is needed to be “fully protected” and fully Catholic. That seems to make the first “dose”, Baptism, incomplete.

Yeah, I totally feel your confusion. Kage_ar and others already posted the CCC, but just to answer your question directly since it was partially my quote you were responding to…Baptism is complete at Baptism. That is, being born again of water and Spirit into membership in the Body of Christ, washed of Original Sin, etc. But like the Catechism says, Christian initiation is incomplete without Confirmation and Holy Communion as well.
CCC 1306; 124:

…for without Confirmation and Eucharist, Baptism is certainly valid and efficacious, but Christian initiation remains incomplete.

Clear as mud?

 

[Janet1983]

Sadly, many Parishes do not explain WHAT Confirmation is. It is not something anyone can be ready for - except to be in a state of grace. It is NOT about you doing something, not about you “making an adult confession of faith”. It is all about what God does for YOU.

Well one should be spiritually mature… Spiritual and physical maturity are not the same. After a whole lot of self-reflection I was sure, that I was not spiritually mature enough to do this step and I waited for 2 years…
Just repeating words because that is what everybody does and because that is expected does not show spiritual maturity. I wanted to be sure that I did it for the right reasons and not because everybody did it, it was expected and my pride was my main motivation… It was a little awkward to go ahead and be the oldest 2 years later, but it was important to me back then that I did not do it because my pride told me to…
I was taught that the confirmation is the completion of baptism (well it was in German, so don’t go for my wording please) or basically the second half… The reception of the Holy Spirit and me confessing my belief by myself (which I couldn’t do during my baptism… I actually slept).

 

[jmcrae]

Well one should be spiritually mature… Spiritual and physical maturity are not the same. After a whole lot of self-reflection I was sure, that I was not spiritually mature enough to do this step and I waited for 2 years…
Just repeating words because that is what everybody does and because that is expected does not show spiritual maturity. I wanted to be sure that I did it for the right reasons and not because everybody did it, it was expected and my pride was my main motivation… It was a little awkward to go ahead and be the oldest 2 years later, but it was important to me back then that I did not do it because my pride told me to…
I was taught that the confirmation is the completion of baptism (well it was in German, so don’t go for my wording please) or basically the second half… The reception of the Holy Spirit and me confessing my belief by myself (which I couldn’t do during my baptism… I actually slept).

It’s actually the second third of your Christian Initiation - the completion of the Sacraments of Initiation is First Holy Communion. Although for some reason the custom at present is to have First Holy Communion come second (which is why so many people can’t make sense of the Sacrament of Confirmation. When it is restored to its proper place as the second Sacrament of Initiation, as a preparation with the seven gifts for receiving Holy Communion, then it will make a whole lot more sense.)

 

[Janet1983]

It’s actually the second third of your Christian Initiation - the completion of the Sacraments of Initiation is First Holy Communion. Although for some reason the custom at present is to have First Holy Communion come second (which is why so many people can’t make sense of the Sacrament of Confirmation. When it is restored to its proper place as the second Sacrament of Initiation, as a preparation with the seven gifts for receiving Holy Communion, then it will make a whole lot more sense.)

Well what I was told is that baptism in and of itself is valid, but that the confirmation is basically… well confirming it… I was baptized as a baby and slept through it… The confirmation was supposed to be the gift of the Holy Spirit and me confirming my baptism (repeating all the things that my parents had promised for me)