L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
jamesclaude said:
- Status
J
jamesclaude
Guest
Who said anything about running AWAY from TRUTH ?
You guys have got the market cornered on telling others how to suffer !
J
jamesclaude
Guest
“SOME” ?
A good reporter always includes who, what, where and when.
This sounds about as willy-nilly as the rumor about John Kerry’s plans to “ban the Bible” if elected president. ( West VA )
What’s the “gay movement” ? Do they give you a pink toaster if you join ?
December 6 + St. Nicholas +
L
Lisa_N
Guest
jamesclaude said:
J
JMJ_Pinoy
Guest
Post # 6.
J
JMJ_Pinoy
Guest
Lisa N:
jamesclaude said:
M
Maccabees
Guest
The catholic church requires one parent or guardian in good standing for infant baptism.
The reason for this is that the faith spoken for is not of the child but of the parent and that faith is assumed to be a catholic in good standing who beleives in the basic moral precepts of the church.
If this mother would go to confession and put away her lover the child would be admitted. Also the child is free to announce her own faith and is elgible for baptism independant of her fornicating mother once she is older.
The reason for this is that the faith spoken for is not of the child but of the parent and that faith is assumed to be a catholic in good standing who beleives in the basic moral precepts of the church.
If this mother would go to confession and put away her lover the child would be admitted. Also the child is free to announce her own faith and is elgible for baptism independant of her fornicating mother once she is older.
S
Scott_Lafrance
Guest
TarAshly said:
Lived in Sicily for 3 years, and there is very much a such thing as the Mafia. The Italian government even has a special class of police to deal with them, a special wing of the Carabinieri (State Police).
S
Scott_Lafrance
Guest
As long as she is willing to live with the priest telling her that her livestyle is incompatable with Catholicism. The point here is that she is NOT the parent of the child, the mother is not Catholic, and the father is in abstentia.
catsrus:
S
Styner
Guest
Wow! I really wasn’t expecting so many varied responses on this topic. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts.
Just to add a few more details for clarity’s sake, I wanted to add that the non-Catholic birth mother has a great deal of respect and love for her Catholic partner. The Catholic partner was raised in the church and is very devoted to her religion. She does her very best to adhere to the religion, and I realize that many of you reading this will argue that she has one big, glaring, obvious problem regarding her sexuality and her faith. But I feel that is a private issue between her and God and have never bothered discussing it with her.
The Catholic partner in this couple truly wants the baby that they raise together to be baptised and raised in the Catholic faith. The other partner is not affiliated with any religion but wants to honor her partners wishes because of the devotion and respect they have for one another. So the question is this: regardless of the home situation of a child, would the church really turn away anyone who wants to commit their baby to the Catholic faith and to God?
Oh - and I just have to add this and I am not trying to cause a ruckus - I truly came here with an open mind and heart to try to find answers for friends of mine. I hate to tell you, but there is NO gay agenda. I know several dozen gay folks because of my career and all I have ever seen are just people trying to live their lives, pay their mortgages, walk the dog and come home to a warm meal after work. Please, don’t marginalize others by lumping them into a general catagory of “they”, and in return, I won’t stand by and silently listen to someone marginalize Catholics.
Thanks again!
Just to add a few more details for clarity’s sake, I wanted to add that the non-Catholic birth mother has a great deal of respect and love for her Catholic partner. The Catholic partner was raised in the church and is very devoted to her religion. She does her very best to adhere to the religion, and I realize that many of you reading this will argue that she has one big, glaring, obvious problem regarding her sexuality and her faith. But I feel that is a private issue between her and God and have never bothered discussing it with her.
The Catholic partner in this couple truly wants the baby that they raise together to be baptised and raised in the Catholic faith. The other partner is not affiliated with any religion but wants to honor her partners wishes because of the devotion and respect they have for one another. So the question is this: regardless of the home situation of a child, would the church really turn away anyone who wants to commit their baby to the Catholic faith and to God?
Oh - and I just have to add this and I am not trying to cause a ruckus - I truly came here with an open mind and heart to try to find answers for friends of mine. I hate to tell you, but there is NO gay agenda. I know several dozen gay folks because of my career and all I have ever seen are just people trying to live their lives, pay their mortgages, walk the dog and come home to a warm meal after work. Please, don’t marginalize others by lumping them into a general catagory of “they”, and in return, I won’t stand by and silently listen to someone marginalize Catholics.
Thanks again!
S
Scott_Lafrance
Guest
I wonder what people here would say if a 42 year old man married his 16 year old niece, had a baby, and he wanted the baby baptised in the Church, insisting he wanted his son to be raised as a devout Catholic?
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I think this is the issue here.
You have a person who says they are Catholic but then choses to live a life that is incompatible with that Faith.
Then you have people who know this person and know what they are doing is wrong but put the blinders on saying that it is a private issue between her and God.
If it was a private issue between her and God then you would not know of it.
This past weekends Epistle reading has something to say here. (by the way, this was the Epistle reading for the Byzantine Catholic Chruches as we have a different litrugical calendar)
Galations 5:19 - 6:2
5 19: Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness,
20: idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit,
21: envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23: gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law.
24: And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25: If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
26: Let us have no self-conceit, no provoking of one another, no envy of one another.
6 1: Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Look to yourself, lest you too be tempted.
2: Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
And let us not forget the quote by Edmund Burke…
Edmund Burke:
I like that so much and it goes very well with the quote already in my signature that I am going to add it there.
L
Lisa_N
Guest
Styner, I know you have a kind heart and may not understand the “rukus” but this gets back to the basic question of what IS the point of baptizing the baby if the mother (or guardian or whatever) has rejected her Catholic faith? It sounds like one partner is going through the motions to please the other. The purported Catholic partner seems to be making Pascal’s Wager…I don’t really BELIEVE this stuff, but I’ll get the kid baptized just in case.
It’s sad that the innocent baby is a sort of pawn in the whole matter but it’s really a choice to be made and since the baby can’t make the choice at this time, it’s up to the mother to decide whether her faith or her “lifestyle” is more important. You do not HAVE to be a Catholic. But if you make that commitment, I really think it ought to be taken seriously. What kind of promise is more important than a promise to God?
Lisa N
S
Styner
Guest
Sorry, ByzCath, but the issue truly is whether or not the church would turn away a child that the parents wish to have baptized and committed to the faith.
I’m not Catholic. I have no argument to offer a lesbian who chooses to remain Catholic, or a Catholic who chooses to remain lesbian. I’m just trying to get educated about the situation involving the baby and the church.
I posted on AAA on recieved a more thoughtful, and surprisingly moderate response with regards to the child in question.
Thanks for your thoughts.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
No the issue at hand is what we have been discussing.
Just as stated in the answer to your question posted in AAA.
Michelle Arnold:
The fact is that this would be an uphill battle for the child to be raise in the true Catholic Faith. I can understand you not being able to see this.
S
Styner
Guest
Lisa N:
Lisa N:
Thanks for food for thought.
Hi Lisa N - Quite the contrary. As much as it sounds ridiculous, the Catholic partner in this couple is very devoted to her faith. I don’t understand her faith vs. sexuality issues or rational myself. But she is very committed to the Catholic teachings and wants the baby raised with those teachings. Think of it as "I’m an adult and I’ve made a choice that goes against my religious upbringing but I feel that my religious training has immense value and is still center in my life. It is those same teachings that she wishes to instill in the child.
Lisa N:
Perhaps this is what she is thinking when she expresses her desire to commit the baby to the Lord.
Thanks for food for thought.
S
space_ghost
Guest
i don’t know how realistic it is to expect 2 people who would not be practicing catholics, or vehemently disposed to any moral code that the church professes want to have their child baptized in the catholic church…
if they did, my guess is that one or more of the pair might be taking another look at their life style and for fear of their soul or the soul of their child wish to start afresh with the baptism of their child. Who in God’s name are we to say otherwise… Only God knows what’s in the persons heart…
I would assume that the priest will properly dispose the parent/s of the child…
the baptism will certainly benefit the child, and who knows, it may be the start of conversion for one or more of the parents… Either way, Jesus Chirst didn’t tell those who sinned to leave him… he included those that were in need of spiritual help…
Splinters and timbers… you can’t witness, or help those you shut the door to…
At anygiven time in a so-called christians life mortal sin seperates us from God… and we need each others help to find our way back. If we fall, or fail, it’s not the duty of the members of the body to pitch them out into the street an point fingers and euphemistically stone them…
i suggest you think twice about exclusion, let God decide what’s in the heart of someone who doesn’t live as you think they should.
your really not qualified…
if they did, my guess is that one or more of the pair might be taking another look at their life style and for fear of their soul or the soul of their child wish to start afresh with the baptism of their child. Who in God’s name are we to say otherwise… Only God knows what’s in the persons heart…
I would assume that the priest will properly dispose the parent/s of the child…
the baptism will certainly benefit the child, and who knows, it may be the start of conversion for one or more of the parents… Either way, Jesus Chirst didn’t tell those who sinned to leave him… he included those that were in need of spiritual help…
Splinters and timbers… you can’t witness, or help those you shut the door to…
At anygiven time in a so-called christians life mortal sin seperates us from God… and we need each others help to find our way back. If we fall, or fail, it’s not the duty of the members of the body to pitch them out into the street an point fingers and euphemistically stone them…
i suggest you think twice about exclusion, let God decide what’s in the heart of someone who doesn’t live as you think they should.
your really not qualified…
T
TarAshly
Guest
jamesclaude said:
i understand where your coming from, i wish the church could open its mind and arms more to the outside community, however not all catholics are this way. i am a Catholic woman, while i dont agree with gay marriage i also dont think they should be denied the holy sacraments such as communion and baptism, these things bring you closer to God why would anyone want to deny someone that right? God loves all people and while some people in this forum and in life like to play judge jury and executioner, not all of us feel that way. i dont want you to have a negative opinion of the Catholic faith. some of us let the church be the church, God be the judge and Jesus be the leader, while we are just his people and servants.
T
TarAshly
Guest
why does the gay issue always go straight to incest and beastiality!? are we really that afraid that if we allow gay people their right to live their lives people will want to marry their nieces and goats?
- Status