Basic Adventist Answers

[Daniel_Marsh]

SDAgirl:

Many of these quotes are from JEWISH law and not Adventist doctrine…

One quote is from SDA doctrine and one is from Jewish sources. The point is Jewish doctrine in Jesus day and today has the sabbath as part of the law that was nailed to the cross. SDA teachers made a** false distinction** to get around the fact that the sabbath was nailed to the cross.

In Fact Romans 14, became the rule of the christian church in their day.

5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord.

Bottom line, Christians have always worshipped God on Saturday or Sunday. In fact, an earily church leaders wrote,

The Didache (C. 90-150 A.D.):

“On the Lord’s Day of the Lord gather together, break bread and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure…”

St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Magnesians (110 A.D.):

“Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the Sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, in which our life is blessed by Him and by His death.”

St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, C. 67 (C. 155 A.D.):

“We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day (after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day) when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.”

Our Lord Jesus Christ declared that He was Lord of the Sabbath and that its observance was at His disposal: St. Matt. 12, 1-8; St. Mark 2, 24-26; St. Luke 6, 5; St. John 5, 10-11. As a consequence, the early Church, in order to distinguish itself from the worship of the Synagogue, felt itself free to depart from Sabbath worship and worship God on an alternate day of the week. This is evident from the words of St. Paul to the Colossians: “Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths. These are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ” (2, 16-17).

If Christ Himself had the power to “dispose” of the Sabbath, so too His Church which is His Body. The power of the Church to make such a change is specifically found in Our Lord’s words to St. Peter: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you **bind on earth ** will be bound in heaven, and whatever you **loose on earth ** will be loosed in heaven” (St. Matt. 16, 19).

From the outset of the Church’s history Christians would replace the Sabbath day with a new day of public worship** in commemoration of Christ’s resurrection from the dead ** - the Day of the Lord. This day is Sunday, the first day of the week:

“But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, taking the spices that they had prepared. They found the stone rolled away from the tomb” (St. Luke 24, 1-2);

“Early on the** first day of the week**, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb” (St. John 20, 1).

The official “birthday” of the Church, Pentecost Sunday, also fell on the first day of the week: Acts 2, 1.

The public worship of the Mass was celebrated by the early Christians on Sunday:

“On the first day of the week, when we met to break bread…” (Acts 20, 7).

Collections in support of the Church were gathered on Sunday:

“On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come” (1 Cor. 16, 2).

St. John received his Revelation on Sunday:

“I, John, your brother who share with you in Jesus the persecution…was on the island called Patmos…I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day…” (Rev. 1, 9-10).

It is important to note that in changing the Sabbath law the Church did not make a change in the divine law obliging men to worship God - a law which is irrevocable - but merely a change in the day on which it was to be offered, that is a change in the positive ceremonial law. All positive laws, including those of divine institution, can be altered or revoked according to changes in time, circumstance or place.

History informs us that during perscution, the earily christians meet every mourning for worship and prayer.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

SDA teachers by making a false distinction to get around Col 2 fall under the warning in II Tim 4:3.

You SDAgirl are following the teachings of men, not the doctrine of God.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Mike_D30:

My point is why not? (and you guys go way past most “Protestants” with your ideas).

If the Church was corrupted at the time of Constantine, and the Canon put together after the corruption, how can you trust the canon from a corrupted pagan Church? Not only the Canon but essentially every major tenet that Christians practice today from a Church controlled by emperors of pagan Rome?

Far as that goes, since catholic monks were the one’s copying the bible manuscripts, how do you know you have a vaild bible?

Is it true, you all made up your own bible called the Clear Word or is that the work of one person like the Living Bible? Is this Clear Word used often in your reading or services?

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

SDAgirl:

Because we have faith that all scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit, and that God would not allow his Holy Bible to be paganized. There has to be one true version that was preserved through the Dark Ages, otherwise we are ALL erring in the faith.

You do know that there is at least one pagan concept on every page of the New Testament? In Fact, the Hellenistic Commentary to the New Testamant ( M. Eugene Boring, Klaus Berger, Carsten Colpe ) documents this fact. Maybe you should get hold of a copy by interlibrary loan to read for yourself.

You do know it was the Catholic and Orthodox churches that preserved the scriptures?

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

caps in orginal

MR852 - Manuscript Release No. 852: The Development of Adventist Thinking on Clean and Unclean Meats (1981)
THE DEVELOPMENT OF ADVENTIST THINKING ON CLEAN AND UNCLEAN MEATS BY RON GRAYBILL

 THE DIETARY DISTINCTION BETWEEN CLEAN AND UNCLEAN MEATS, BASED ON LEVITICUS 11 AND DEUTERONOMY 14, IS GENERALLY UNDERSTOOD AND ACCEPTED AMONG ADVENTISTS TODAY. UNLIKE THE CEREMONIAL LAWS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, WHICH POINTED TO CHRIST, OR THE CIVIL LAWS, WHICH GOVERNED THE THEOCRACY, THESE HEALTH LAWS WERE BASED ON NATURAL LAW AND THUS NOT MERELY APPLICABLE TO ONE AGE AND TIME. THUS EVEN AMONG ADVENTISTS WHO EAT MEAT, THESE UNCLEAN MEATS ARE AVOIDED. NINETEENTH-CENTURY ADVENTISTS, HOWEVER, DID NOT GENERALLY ACCEPT THIS DISTINCTION BETWEEN CLEAN AND UNCLEAN MEATS BASED ON LEVITICAL LAW, EVEN THOUGH THEY CLEARLY CONDEMNED PORK. {MR852 1.1}

…

 HASKELL THEN QUOTED LEVITICUS 11:1-8: "THE EATING OF THESE THINGS WHICH GOD HAS FORBIDDEN," HASKELL CONCLUDED, "IS VERY GRIEVOUS IN HIS SIGHT."

WHITE ESTATE APRIL 27, 1981 {MR852 4.3}

egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/gateway.dll/egw-comp/section12951.htm/book14446.htm

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Some tests of a prophet
bibleplus.org/prophecy/visions-egw/tests_of_a_true_prophet.htm

You Be the Judge
Does Mrs. White Pass the
Biblical Tests of a Prophet?
ellenwhite.org/egw35.htm

Deuteronomy 18

17 The LORD said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Deu 13:1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,
Deu 13:2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,”
Deu 13:3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.
Deu 13:5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

The passage is clearly saying Jesus can not be everywhere at once and thus the Holy Spirit has to do it for him thus Ellen White is denying that Jesus is omnipresent. Since, all three members of the trinity are co-equal Jesus in and of himself would be omnipresent without the Holy Spirit doing it for him. Read the whole passage.

“Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. **He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent.” ** (Manuscript Releases Volume Fourteen, page 23, paragraph 3)

This is a different god, not the Trinity.

other passages that need to be explained to are theology.edu/areopagus/christology/messages/27.html

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

SDAgirl

See posts 37 - 41 here

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=106473

 

[SDAgirl]

Daniel Marsh:

Some tests of a prophet
bibleplus.org/prophecy/visions-egw/tests_of_a_true_prophet.htm

You Be the Judge
Does Mrs. White Pass the
Biblical Tests of a Prophet?
ellenwhite.org/egw35.htm

Deuteronomy 18

17 The LORD said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Deu 13:1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,
Deu 13:2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,”
Deu 13:3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.
Deu 13:5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

The passage is clearly saying Jesus can not be everywhere at once and thus the Holy Spirit has to do it for him thus Ellen White is denying that Jesus is omnipresent. Since, all three members of the trinity are co-equal Jesus in and of himself would be omnipresent without the Holy Spirit doing it for him. Read the whole passage.

“Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. **He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent.” ** (Manuscript Releases Volume Fourteen, page 23, paragraph 3)

This is a different god, not the Trinity.

other passages that need to be explained to are theology.edu/areopagus/christology/messages/27.html

EW is speaking of when Jesus was here in human form. He could no longer be in all places. If you read the PAGE this comes from you would understand the context. The only reason I am here is to answer basic questions about Adventism, hence the name of the thread. Not to analyze snipits taken out of context. My patience is wearing thin with people who assume from one verse we have a different kind of God than Catholics. Its simply not true.