BBC Scotland video says Holy Communion ‘smells like hate’

[Annie]

Thank you.

 

[Annie]

This is very true. When the idea of SSM was still up in the air, people said it would destroy the institution of marriage, but it seemed to me the institution was already 75% destroyed by ABC and no-fault divorce.

I had a job once where one of the men was very open about that fact that he was cohabiting with 2 women (not housemates). There was more fuss over the guy who had been caught flossing his teeth at his desk… What a world.

 

[Annie]

Division, deceit, denunciation, and death.

 

[Raxus]

I have a great deal of sympathy for all who are involved. However, I would hesitate to place blame on anyone. You can’t judge real people based on broad generalizations.

I tend to agree, but in this particular instance, there’s only one party who’s bucking the Gospel and its teachings on the matter.

However, lets keep things in perspective. The overwhelming majority of sexual sinners are heterosexual couples.

I’ll grant this based purely on numbers.

So if you are going to crusade against the tiny proportion of same sex couples who are open about their relationship, you really can’t ignore the many heterosexual couples who have extramarital sex - whether it is fornication or adultery and/or use birth control.

Here’s the thing about that: A gay couple who’s living the lifestyle is out in the open with their sin. It’s a scandal, in the traditional sense of the word. I do in fact call other sins out if I see them and if the context is appropriate to do so. I am quite vocal in my opposition to both of those other things. There’s no hypocritical avoidance on my part; if I see it, I say something about it and move on.

 

[Luke6_37]

I do in fact call other sins out if I see them and if the context is appropriate to do so. I am quite vocal in my opposition to both of those other things.

Opposition gets harder when its real people involved. Just about every family has at least one scandalous relationship among its members. I don’t know many parents who would refuse to entertain their son’s live-in girlfriend for Thanksgiving. It’s really should be no different if his partner is Eve or Steve.

 

[Raxus]

Opposition gets harder when its real people involved. Just about every family has at least one scandalous relationship among its members.

Most folks, I wager, don’t go around parading their scandalous relationships in quite the same way for everyone to see.

I don’t know many parents who would refuse to entertain their son’s live-in girlfriend for Thanksgiving. It’s really should be no different if his partner is Eve or Steve.

For what it’s worth, I totally agree.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Bishop of Paisley complains to BBC Scotland over video mocking Communion

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...to-bbc-scotland-over-video-mocking-communion/

 

[Agathon]

Unfortunately, too many Christians do them in the wrong order. They invert the Gospel and then wonder why it fails to entice people or even worse, pushes them away.

The first thing He said in His public ministry was “Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” We’d do well to do the same.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

Unfortunately, too many Christians do them in the wrong order. They invert the Gospel and then wonder why it fails to entice people or even worse, pushes them away.

The first thing He said in His public ministry was “Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” We’d do well to do the same.

Yes, we are called to conversion. Μετανοεῖτε, the Greek word translated as “repent”, means to change one’s mind or purpose. We are called to stop viewing the world from our fallen perspective and try to look at it from God’s perspective. This requires us to turn towards the light and follow the Way who is Christ Jesus.

So when you encounter a sinner, you should do as Christ did. First share the Gospel with him or her. The Gospel is not about rebuking people, it’s about the good creator God fulfilling his promise to his chosen people and sending them forth to be a light to the nations.

When asked by Dave Rubin (a gay married man) what he would say to the LGBTQ community, Bishop Robert Barron replied, “You are a beloved child of God, created in God’s image and invited to a full share of the Divine Life”.

That’s where you begin. Nobody is worthy to cast stones at anyone, but we are all commanded to share the news of God’s loving & transformative grace.

 

[Agathon]

Yes, we are called to conversion. Μετανοεῖτε, the Greek word translated as “repent”, means to change one’s mind or purpose. We are called to stop viewing the world from our fallen perspective and try to look at it from God’s perspective. This requires us to turn towards the light and follow the Way who is Christ Jesus.

So when you encounter a sinner, you should do as Christ did. First share the Gospel with him or her. The Gospel is not about rebuking people, it’s about the good creator God fulfilling his promise to his chosen people and sending them forth to be a light to the nations.

What did the Baptist say when people came to him? “Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce good fruits of repentance. The axe is at the root of every tree and ready to cut down any tree that doesn’t bear fruit.” What did Paul preach to Felix? The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Gospel of freedom and self control. Our job as Christians is to preach repentance not make people comfortable.

 

[Luke6_37]

What did the Baptist say when people came to him? “Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce good fruits of repentance. The axe is at the root of every tree and ready to cut down any tree that doesn’t bear fruit.”

John the Baptist wasn’t speaking to people who would have been considered “sinners” or “outcasts”. He is speaking to his fellow Jews who obeyed the Law of Moses. The fig tree is a symbol of Israel. This passage is echoed by Jesus in Mark 11:12-25, when he curses the fig tree for failing to bear fruit and clears the Temple courts. Both stories are about people who think they are righteous by following God’s commands, but who are really only acting for themselves. So I’d be careful about righteously throwing this verse around.

What did Paul preach to Felix? The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Gospel of freedom and self control.

Again, Felix was a powerful man. He was not a marginalized outcast. He probably lived a very comfortable life. Self-restraint doesn’t just mean sex, it also means pride, greed, anger, gluttony…any of the seven deadly sins. Giving up the perks that come with wealth and power is a hard thing to do.

Our job as Christians is to preach repentance not make people comfortable.

If that is all you do, you will fail, because that’s not the Gospel.

 

[Agathon]

If that is all you do, you will fail, because that’s not the Gospel.

It worked for John the Baptist, Jesus, Peter, and all the Apostles.

 

[Agathon]

John the Baptist wasn’t speaking to people who would have been considered “sinners” or “outcasts”

And regardless of status, they all were sinners, so that doesn’t hurt my point.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

If that is all you do, you will fail, because that’s not the Gospel.

It worked for John the Baptist, Jesus, Peter, and all the Apostles.

You need to read the whole Bible, not just the bits and pieces that support your views.

It you do, you will notice there is a difference in the way Jesus speaks to people in power as opposed to people on the margins.

Women were powerless in the world of first century Palestine. Under the Law,
both partners caught in adultery were to be stoned. However, in John 8:1-11 the righteous Jews only seek to condemn the powerless woman.

Jesus saves the woman and does not condemn her, but he acknowledges her sin too. He tells he she needs to stop sinning.

That is the proper order with those who are marginalized or persecuted. You need to first let people know they are safe and loved, any only then deal with sin.

The proclamation is very different for the rich and powerful who use their status to oppress other people. The advent of the Messiah is not Good News for them, unless they change their way of thinking.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

John the Baptist wasn’t speaking to people who would have been considered “sinners” or “outcasts”

And regardless of status, they all were sinners, so that doesn’t hurt my point.

From a first century Jewish perspective, the Pharisees especially were not sinners, but righteous before God in accordance with the Law. Most observant Jews tried to keep the Law and when they failed, offered sacrifices at the Temple to restore their relationship with God. That is how the sacrificial system of Biblical Judaism that Jesus practiced worked.

Anyone who operated outside of this system were sinners. That includes Samaritans, as well as Tax Collectors & prostitutes.

So you can see how radically subversive Jesus was by who he lifted up and who he sought to bring down.

People don’t generally think of the Blessed Mother as a great prophet, but the Magnificat is definitely spoken in the form of prophetic speech. It’s not really a prayer since she is speaking to Elizabeth, not to God. In it she lays out the entire subversive plan that her son will accomplish.

Luke 1:46-55 NABRE - - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Agathon]

You need to read the whole Bible, not just the bits and pieces that support your views.

I do. And as a matter of fact, it says the opposite of what you’re saying.

Matthew 21
“Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you. 32For John came to you in a righteous way and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you. 32For John came to you in a righteous way and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Luke 7
29All the people who heard this, even the tax collectors, acknowledged God’s justice. For they had received the baptism of John. 30But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.

So it seems John’s believing audience include a large portion of outcasts who responded to his message of repentance.

 

[Luke6_37]

So it seems John’s believing audience include a large portion of outcasts who responded to his message of repentance.

Then to make your case, you need to quote what John said to them and not to those who represent the “tree” that is Israel, which is about to be cut down.

Our job as Christians is to preach repentance not make people comfortable.

Here is your error. Preaching repentance isn’t about making people feel uncomfortable, it’s about opening up and offering them a new path of hope and redemption. That is what John the Baptist was doing.

For the outcast & marginalized, it means stop thinking of yourself as a pariah and start thinking of yourself as a beloved child of God.

For the rich and powerful, it means stop thinking of yourself as inherently better than anyone else.

 

[Agathon]

Then to make your case, you need to quote what John said to them and not to those who represent the “tree” that is Israel, which is about to be cut down.

12Even tax collectors came to be baptized. “Teacher,” they asked, “what should we do?”

13“Collect no more than you are authorized,” he answered.

 

[Agathon]

Here is your error. Preaching repentance isn’t about making people feel uncomfortable, it’s about opening up and offering them a new path of hope and redemption. That is what John the Baptist was doing.

He was also reminding them of the consequences if they didn’t repent. That was also a tactic Christ used, and it would’ve made me uncomfortable if I was there.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

Then to make your case, you need to quote what John said to them and not to those who represent the “tree” that is Israel, which is about to be cut down.

12Even tax collectors came to be baptized. “Teacher,” they asked, “what should we do?”

13“Collect no more than you are authorized,” he answered.

He didn’t say stop collecting taxes. He said stop using your authority to cheat people. That’s not terribly harsh. Tax collectors work for the Roman’s, which makes them generally unpopular even if they are honest.

In contrast, John calls those who smugly consider themselves the children of Abraham a brood of vipers. Big difference.

Luke 3:7-9 NABRE - - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com