Beards and Gay Marriage

[frobert]

Yes, it is me that finds the UCC Coalition definition meaningless, and with each post I included a reason.
And the summary of each of your responses was, I beg to differ. Which it seems is also a good summary of the position held by most same sex as marriage apologists. They offer nothing, they just beg to differ.

No one is begging. No one that I know of has said please believe what I have to say. Frank believes you are making some fundamental errors with your generalizations.If you want to know what they are Frank says review your previous posts. What Stephen appears to consistently fail to realize is that others have different beliefs and have reasoned differently than Stephen. I have consistently held respect for the CC’s beliefs, if I did not I would not be able to worship in a CC. Neither the pastor nor assistant pastor agree with my beliefs and reasoning but neither do they disrespect them by calling them meaningless.

I did offer a report of the UCC 25th Synod. You said it was meaningless, you said my citing fairness was meaningless which I take offence in. You would likely find anything that you don’t agree with meaningless. The fact you believe the UCC definition meaningless or your reasons for doing so does not make it meaningless to Frank and does not change the fact the it is quite meaningful to those in the UCC and likely many others.
.

 

[stewstew03]

No one is begging. No one that I know of has said please believe what I have to say. **Frank **believes you are making some fundamental errors with your generalizations.If you want to know what they are **Frank **says review your previous posts. What Stephen appears to consistently fail to realize is that others have different beliefs and have reasoned differently than Stephen. I have consistently held respect for the CC’s beliefs, if I did not I would not be able to worship in a CC. Neither the pastor nor assistant pastor agree with my beliefs and reasoning but neither do they disrespect them by calling them meaningless.

I did offer a report of the UCC 25th Synod. You said it was meaningless, you said my citing fairness was meaningless which I take offence in. You would likely find anything that you don’t agree with meaningless. The fact you believe the UCC definition meaningless or your reasons for doing so does not make it meaningless to **Frank **and does not change the fact the it is quite meaningful to those in the UCC and likely many others.
.

Who in the world is Frank?

Also, the UCC would support virtual child porn if the majority population agreed it was their constitutional right to enjoy such prurience.

 

[frobert]

Who in the world is Frank?

Also, the UCC would support virtual child porn if the majority population agreed it was their constitutional right to enjoy such prurience.

I am Frank.

I would appreciate if you would refrain from insulting me or my church with absurd hypotheticals.

 

[stewstew03]

I am Frank.

You’re referring to yourself in the third person?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I would appreciate if you would refrain from insulting me or my church with absurd hypotheticals.

So you’re not actually disagreeing with me. The UCC didn’t introduce a resolution supporting SSM until 2005, and in their resolution they admit that their beliefs will change as opinions/ideas shift. Besides, given that the UCC prides itself on civil liberties issues, they probably already support virtual child porn (see Ashcroft v Fee Speech Coalition).

 

[frobert]

You’re referring to yourself in the third person?

So you’re not actually disagreeing with me. The UCC didn’t introduce a resolution supporting SSM until 2005, and in their resolution they admit that their beliefs will change as opinions/ideas shift. Besides, given that the UCC prides itself on civil liberties issues, they probably already support virtual child porn (see Ashcroft v Fee Speech Coalition).

I find your your ad homian attack on a mainstream Christian denomination and determination to continue it disrespectful and quite unbecoming for a “Prayer Warrior”

 

[Porknpie]

If I am inspired to follow Christ’s teachings what difference does it matter who inspired me or if he were Christian or not?

Frobert,

First, the Catholic belief is to love the sinner and hate the sin. At no time do we hate the sinner. Just the opposite, we are to love one another. And one way that we do this is to proclaim the truth of the gospel. Truth that includes the fact that we all sin - and in doing so we all have crosses to carry. Truth that includes the fact that we are all called to turn away from sin and towards the life of Holiness. To your point above, we are to follow Christ’s teachings. The verses below are Christ’s teachings. Christ clearly teaches that we are not to follow a life of sexual immorality. This includes the practice of homosexuality.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 1:26-28
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

1 Timothy 1:10
The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

1 Corinthians 7:2
But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

1 Timothy 1:10-11
The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Mark 10:6-9
But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Jude 1:7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Romans 1:27
And the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

At the end of the day, we all are called to follow Christ’s teachings and conform our lives to his teachings. One of the great things about Catholicism is that we have the sacraments. The means of grace which Christ has given us to follow him. Grace gives us strength to follow him no matter what cross each of us carry.

PnP

 

[PRmerger]

This is laughable. You didn’t cite a “study” – you cited an essay written by an atheist professor with an agenda.

Here - take some advice from this same professor: pointers for fellow atheists.

“So if you really want a godless world, better get busy.”–Phil Zuckerman.

Heh.

 

[PRmerger]

Earlier!

What is your definition?

Give me your final, definitive definition, and I’ll show you mine. quid pro quo ( tip o’ the nib to PR)

Fair enough.

My definition of marriage: a lifelong, exclusively faithful union of man and woman ordered towards the good of the other and the procreation and education of children.

Now, your definition?

 

[PRmerger]

A received a PM from someone I have great respect for. He told me that you are really trying to help me.

Awww, well, that was sweet of him. I wish you would share who that was! I’m dying to know who’s got my back here.

I gave his remark much thought, the fault is mine in that I am unable to appreciate your way of discourse.

shaw:

I like to get directly to the point. This is just an example and not a criticism. Somehow I gave you the impression that I was denying Catholics the right to argue their beliefs, I would have profoundly apologized for giving that impression because that is the same impression I get of some posters when they fail to be direct. So I have a lot of work to do on myself in trying to understand where the other person is coming from.

No, frobert. You did not give me the impression that you were denying Catholics the right to argue our beliefs.

What you did give me the impression was that you think it’s wrong for Catholics to say, “This is wrong”.

And yet, it appears, that you permit yourself to say, “This is wrong”. Where, in the case of the example I gave, “this” means: worshipping a God who hates homosexuals.

I take exception with you telling Catholics that we are judging other religions, when you yourself judge other religions.

That’s all I was saying in our particular exchange.

 

[frobert]

Awww, well, that was sweet of him. I wish you would share who that was! I’m dying to know who’s got my back here.

shaw:

No, frobert. You did not give me the impression that you were denying Catholics the right to argue our beliefs.

What you did give me the impression was that you think it’s wrong for Catholics to say, “This is wrong”.

And yet, it appears, that you permit yourself to say, “This is wrong”. Where, in the case of the example I gave, “this” means: worshipping a God who hates homosexuals.

I take exception with you telling Catholics that we are judging other religions, when you yourself judge other religions.

That’s all I was saying in our particular exchange.

I believe you misunderstood my intent of who I would worship with.

I am sorry for both of us that you rejected my apology and attempt to reach out to you.

Peace

 

[frobert]

Frobert,

First, the Catholic belief is to love the sinner and hate the sin. At no time do we hate the sinner. Just the opposite, we are to love one another. And one way that we do this is to proclaim the truth of the gospel. Truth that includes the fact that we all sin - and in doing so we all have crosses to carry. Truth that includes the fact that we are all called to turn away from sin and towards the life of Holiness. To your point above, we are to follow Christ’s teachings. The verses below are Christ’s teachings. Christ clearly teaches that we are not to follow a life of sexual immorality. This includes the practice of homosexuality.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 1:26-28
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

1 Timothy 1:10
The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

1 Corinthians 7:2
But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

1 Timothy 1:10-11
The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Mark 10:6-9
But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Jude 1:7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Romans 1:27
And the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

At the end of the day, we all are called to follow Christ’s teachings and conform our lives to his teachings. One of the great things about Catholicism is that we have the sacraments. The means of grace which Christ has given us to follow him. Grace gives us strength to follow him no matter what cross each of us carry.

PnP

Thank you. As I said I respect CC beliefs.

 

[PRmerger]

I believe you misunderstood my intent of who I would worship with.

I am sorry for both of us that you rejected my apology and attempt to reach out to you.

Peace

Why would you think I rejected your apology?

This little “smilie” means, “Aww, don’t mention it!”
shaw:

I know you have mentioned you have dyslexia, and that’s certainly not a hindrance in posting here…

but I suggest that if you are going be offended at something, which you may have misread, then it’s probably better to read things twice before responding.

Here, I remind you how you misread my “inspired author” reference as thinking I was referring to another poster as being inspired, when I actually cited the reference as being St. Peter.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

“It does not contain a definition of marriage as I would expect.” Exactly it is your perception and expectation which I can respect but you are unable to reciprocate. DrTaffy nor myself want to change your belief which I can sympathize with, My perception coincides with my church, the UCC, I don’t believe there there are many in my church that would characterize the 25th General Synod as a “sex marriage apologetics group or that it was controlled by one. or who find the definition meaningless.” The impression I get of what you are saying is “any definition of marriage or belief different than Stephen’s must by definition be wrong and it is ok for Stephen to characterize such a definition as meaningless.” Believing that is ok by me, but in reality it is meaningful to myself and many others.

What is the UCC church?

Linus2nd

 

[PRmerger]

What is the UCC church?

Linus2nd

United Church of Christ

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Why would you think I rejected your apology?

This little “smilie” means, “Aww, don’t mention it!”
shaw:

This would have been an excellent response if you had stopped here.

I know you have mentioned you have dyslexia, and that’s certainly not a hindrance in posting here…

but I suggest that if you are going be offended at something, which you may have misread, then it’s probably better to read things twice before responding.

Here, I remind you how you misread my “inspired author” reference as thinking I was referring to another poster as being inspired, when I actually cited the reference as being St. Peter.

This whole section reads like you’re being a bully. See 1 Cor. 13.

 

[PRmerger]

This whole section reads like you’re being a bully. See 1 Cor. 13.

And that sounds like you’re being a hypocrite.

You should read the sections in the Scriptures about that.

 

[PRmerger]

This whole section reads like you’re being a bully. See 1 Cor. 13.

Fair enough.

I retract my remark about frobert needing to read the posts twice if he is offended by something.

 

[frobert]

What is the UCC church?

Linus2nd

The United Church of Christ which is a mainstream Protestant Denomination

…we recognize our calling both as individuals and as the church to live in the world:

To proclaim in word and action the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
To work for reconciliation and the unity of the broken Body of Christ.
To seek justice and liberation for all.

This is the challenge of the United Church of Christ.

 

[PRmerger]

The United Church of Christ which is a mainstream Protestant Denomination

…we recognize our calling both as individuals and as the church to live in the world:

To proclaim in word and action the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
To work for reconciliation and the unity of the broken Body of Christ.
To seek justice and liberation for all.

This is the challenge of the United Church of Christ.

The above is very Catholic.

 

[stewstew03]

…
I find your your ad homian attack on a mainstream Christian denomination and determination to continue it disrespectful and quite unbecoming for a “Prayer Warrior”

The UCC doesn’t support civil liberties? I thought that was their schtick? And what does “prayer warrior” have to do with this? And what about the fact that I find the UCC offensive? They are a tool used by Satan.