Beards and Gay Marriage

[Prodigal_Son]

It does not follow that Paul adopted Platonic notions in developing his theology.

I never claimed that he did. Read back through what I’ve said here.

I think it’s likely he was influenced by Plato, but that doesn’t necessarily involve “Platonic notions”. Still, as a Plato scholar, I find the connection fascinating.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Since I don’t have access to those sources, and you apparently do, would it be possible to quote briefly from just one of them (the best one) to make the point that Freud is indebted to Plato for some of his discoveries?

You can look up the three books on Google Book Search. Search for “freud id ego plato parts of soul”. I think that’s how I found them.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I think it’s likely he was influenced by Plato, but that doesn’t necessarily involve “Platonic notions”. Still, as a Plato scholar, I find the connection fascinating.

I don’t know why you’d think it was likely unless you have some particular doctrine of Plato that Paul incorporates into his epistles. I’ve read all of Plato. I don’'t consider myself a Plato scholar, but I also don’t thin the connection is fascinating unless you can prove there is a connection.

The influence of Plato on the early fathers, as I’ve always understood it, was mainly through Plotinus, who comes centuries after the death of Paul.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[frobert]

In Plato, Philo, and Paul: The Influence of Platonic Thought on Paul’s Theosophy In an attempt to put St Paul into an historic context, the author trances Plato’s influence on Paul to Philo Judaeus. Whether he is correct or not is open to debate but it is another potential link between St Paul and Plato.

There are many more examples of Biblical parallels between Platonian philosophy and the theosophy (philosophy based on a divine revelation of wisdom) of Paul. Paul echoes Plato in the use of a tent as a metaphor for the human body and his description of Christ as the “head of the body [of Christ].” Paul and Philo both use the metaphor of a race to describe the life that a person should live. Coupled with his strong political and religious links to Jerusalem, evidence therefore exists that Philo exerted some influence on Paul. Does the evidence herein detract from the sanctity or truth of the Scripture? By no means! Truth remains; truth does not depend on whose hand dipped the quill in the ink, but in the essence of the thought. Paul of Tarsus was simply the right man at the right time to translate the ancient Hebrew traditions into the contemporary world of Greek wisdom and Roman dominance.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

In Plato, Philo, and Paul: The Influence of Platonic Thought on Paul’s Theosophy In an attempt to put St Paul into an historic context, the author trances Plato’s influence on Paul to Philo Judaeus. Whether he is correct or not is open to debate but it is another potential link between St Paul and Plato.

This from your source:

“While Paul and Philo were contemporaries, there is no primary evidence indicating that they ever met or corresponded. However, if we examine their education, their writing styles, their travels, and their common heritage, the probable influence of Philo (and by extension, Plato) on Paul becomes startlingly clear. My theory is that Philo’s writings were the medium of transmission for Plato’s ideas to the Apostle Paul.”

As he says, it is a theory only.

I prefer to believe that Paul was inspired by Jesus first, then instructed by Peter and the apostles in what Jesus taught long before the Gospels were written. There would have been no need for the apostles to have been influenced by Plato. It was all there in Moses and Jesus. There is nothing taught in the gospels or in the Acts of the Apostles that suggests a connection between Plato and Jesus and Paul.

But I understand the temptation to make mountains out of molehills. There was a serious writer (can’t remember his name) who published back in the 60s I believe an essay in which he alleged that Freud got his idea for the Oedipus Complex by reading Sophocles’ Oedipus Rex. I doubt it. Freud would have had plenty of patients with mother-complexes to develop his own theory, and then just borrow the name of a famous case of tragic incest to label it.

Well, I guess critics and historians have to make a living, and one way to do that is to come up with sensational notions about previously unconnected heroes of history.

Again, I’d like to know of one doctrine taught by Paul that is derived from Plato rather than Christ.

 

[frobert]

Again, I’d like to know of one doctrine taught by Paul that is derived from Plato rather than Christ.

You are reading into or are expecting too much from opinions that Paul was influenced by Plato. It’s a perfectly valid theory based on similarities and historical context. No one, at least not on here, is saying that Paul derived doctrine from Plato. Similarity and derivation and not synonymous. As I commented before and as the author of the link writes similarities do not detract from divine revelation. I asked what you thought about that and you didn’t answer.

There are many more examples of Biblical parallels between Platonian philosophy and the theosophy (philosophy based on a divine revelation of wisdom) of Paul. Paul echoes Plato in the use of a tent as a metaphor for the human body and his description of Christ as the “head of the body [of Christ].” Paul and Philo both use the metaphor of a race to describe the life that a person should live. Coupled with his strong political and religious links to Jerusalem, evidence therefore exists that Philo exerted some influence on Paul. Does the evidence herein detract from the sanctity or truth of the Scripture? By no means! Truth remains; truth does not depend on whose hand dipped the quill in the ink, but in the essence of the thought.Paul of Tarsus was simply the right man at the right time to translate the ancient Hebrew traditions into the contemporary world of Greek wisdom and Roman dominance.

Emphasis added.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

You are reading into or are expecting too much from opinions that Paul was influenced by Plato.

Same for you?

 

[opusAquinas]

This is too funny.

Do you know a beard is slang for a woman a gay man marries or dates to hide he is gay?

LOL.