Beautiful Annulments...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Polluted
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Polluted

Guest
Beautiful Annulments. I have heard this phrase tossed around by quite a few devout Catholics. So hear me out.

Let’s say we have a girl named Ann. Ann is a devout Catholic who has gone to the same Church her whole life. Ann lives in a small town as well. Not too small, but everyone pretty much has a feel for eachother. Let’s say Ann got married in her small Catholic Church at 18 years old. From that moment Ann and her Husband Bob were very active at her Church. In fact her fellow Catholics watched the beautiful family blossom before their eyes.

Ann and Bob had 9 kids. Obviously their loyalty to the Churches laws surrounding contraception were firm. Not only that but every person who saw their family was so inspired because they had also attended the wedding! They saw from the start this beautiful sacramental bond seal from the very start 👍

But at 43 years of age, after Bob’s secret affair with a tourist caused tension in the marriage. Ann was so heart broken she divorced him. Only a year later Ann fell in love again with a man named Henry. She knew she wanted Henry so she immediately filed for an annulment. Luckily for her, she lives on American soil where the vast bulk of Annulments take place. After she crosses the Ts pays the fee and does all the paperwork. A year and a half later Ann and Henry are Married once again in the same Church with Bob’s 9 kids beside her.

What’s wrong with this picture?
What problems might arise from this Beautiful Annulment?
No scandal at all right?
No faltering of integrity surrounding marriage by The Church or Ann right?

Let’s add to this senario. Let’s say Henry goes to the same Church even! (Akward right?) Henry admits his sin, even went to confession and stays single for the rest of his days. Even though Henry knows the Church declared the marriage null after “lack of true intent” :rolleyes: or something fairly ambiguous and difficult to judge on paper. He feels after 25 years or marriage of marriage and after all their children they are still married in the eyes of God.

I ask all of you, who is her Husband? Bob or Henry?
 
Beautiful Annulments.
I’ve never heard that term, ever.
What’s wrong with this picture?
What is wrong with this picture is that you’ve made it up entirely to suit your agenda and to disparage and accuse the Church of handing out decrees of nullity for money.

What is wrong with this picture is that you seem to lack a really good understanding of the grounds for nullity, what a decree of nullity is and isn’t, and believe that such a made up scenario is an example at all.
I ask all of you, who is her Husband? Bob or Henry?
Since “she” doesn’t exist, she has no husband.
 
Oh, and if you google the phrase “beautiful annulment” you get… this thread. Ironic, huh?

You get some other results that have nothing to do with "beautiful annulment:

A plot summary of one of the stories on The Bold and the Beautiful. But not “beautiful annulment”.

And a quote from the LA Times discussing the “annulment reforms” of Pope Francis, quoting a person who says the annulment process can be a “beautiful healing process”.

Hardly a smoking gun.
 
Ultimately, if you’re Catholic it comes down to whether or not you trust the church. If Bob feels comfortable telling gay people that they cannot marry, telling people married outside the church that it’s invalid, or telling people not to have sex before marriage regardless of their feelings, then Bob needs to accept that now, it’s his turn to trust the church over his own feelings.

Is he really Catholic, or only Catholic when it’s easy and doesn’t conflict with his own ideas?
 
Tell that to Bob and the chronic alcoholism he now deals with to kill the pain from losing his wife 😦
We are not privy to all the details of the situation. There MUST be reasonable grounds for a declaration of nullity to be granted. Maybe Bob was having an affair for a number of years before Ann found out about it. Maybe one pressured the other into getting married. Maybe they got married because they were pregnant. Maybe they weren’t psychologically mature enough to marry. Maybe Bob was already an alcoholic before they were married and he wasn’t able to adequately consent for marriage. Maybe Bob was abusing Ann and she only found the strength to leave him after all this time.

I have heard stories of spouses/partners who were victims of horrendous abuse - yet it was all done behind closed doors. They seemed to have wonderful marriages. Their partners were bastions of morality and popularity - but in the home, it was a different story. (Even alcoholics and drug addicts can be quite functional in some cases.)

Bottom line: we can’t say for sure whether this declaration of nullity was acceptable or not simply because we do not know all of the facts of the case.
 
Ultimately, if you’re Catholic it comes down to whether or not you trust the church. If Bob feels comfortable telling gay people that they cannot marry, telling people married outside the church that it’s invalid, or telling people not to have sex before marriage regardless of their feelings, then Bob needs to accept that now, it’s his turn to trust the church over his own feelings.

Is he really Catholic, or only Catholic when it’s easy and doesn’t conflict with his own ideas?
All im gonna say us even my own deacon admits the Catholic Church at times needed a pull back to the sacred when it got too far away itself. Obviously our Church isnt immune to corruption at times.
 
We are not privy to all the details of the situation. There MUST be reasonable grounds for a declaration of nullity to be granted. Maybe Bob was having an affair for a number of years before Ann found out about it. Maybe one pressured the other into getting married. Maybe they got married because they were pregnant. Maybe they weren’t psychologically mature enough to marry. Maybe Bob was already an alcoholic before they were married and he wasn’t able to adequately consent for marriage. Maybe Bob was abusing Ann and she only found the strength to leave him after all this time.

I have heard stories of spouses/partners who were victims of horrendous abuse - yet it was all done behind closed doors. They seemed to have wonderful marriages. Their partners were bastions of morality and popularity - but in the home, it was a different story. (Even alcoholics and drug addicts can be quite functional in some cases.)

Bottom line: we can’t say for sure whether this declaration of nullity was acceptable or not simply because we do not know all of the facts of the case.
I can agree to that 👍 well put. However there was once a tume where priests would tell abused apouses it would be better to die at the hands of their husband than to get a divorce.

Obviously a tad over the top but where has the Catholic commitment to that type of bond these days? Last time I checked abuse didnt mean a marriage automatically didnt take place.
 
Tell that to Bob and the chronic alcoholism he now deals with to kill the pain from losing his wife 😦
Bob sounds like a hot mess and without reading through everything submitted to the tribunal, you are being very arrogant in your assertion that the decision is wrong.

It is very easy for me to believe that an alcoholic philanderer who married that young hid a few things, didn’t have a real understanding of marriage, or never intended to live it out. Heck, it could be all 3. That’s not a stretch at all.
 
I’ve never heard that term, ever.

What is wrong with this picture is that you’ve made it up entirely to suit your agenda and to disparage and accuse the Church of handing out decrees of nullity for money.

What is wrong with this picture is that you seem to lack a really good understanding of the grounds for nullity, what a decree of nullity is and isn’t, and believe that such a made up scenario is an example at all.

Since “she” doesn’t exist, she has no husband.
Yes. I’ve also never heard the term “beautiful annulment.”

People might say “healing,” but not beautiful.
 
Is this the imaginary Bob you’re talking about? http://online.wsj.com/media/bob_art_160_20080827152934.jpg

In my story he’s as happy as a lark after coming to terms with the mistakes he made that led to untimely demise of his marriage to Ann
Funny!

Even with this just being a totally-made up story, I’m concerned with the fact that our man Bob is both 1) an adulterer and 2) an alcoholic. I know that in polluted’s version of the story, he only started drinking after the divorce and it was only the one affair, but how likely is that?

My version is that Bob has been an adulterer and an alcoholic all along.

Fathers of nine don’t “suddenly” commit adultery with strange ladies.
 
Hard to determine if Polluted is second guessing a Church tribunal or creating a hypothetical. Either way, :rolleyes:

A tribunal can only issue a decree of nullity if there is found to be an impediment to sacramental marriage at the time of the wedding. Secret affairs later or finding the love of your life later don’t count.

Can you imagine a world without hypothetical situations? :rolleyes:
 
We are not privy to all the details of the situation.
There is no situation. The OP made it up, with convenient details that fit his/her agenda. Not real details of a real decree of nullity (which he/she would not have because the nullity records are confidential).

I can suggest Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster as good basic reading on what a decree of nullity is and is not.
 
Ultimately, if you’re Catholic it comes down to whether or not you trust the church. If Bob feels comfortable telling gay people that they cannot marry, telling people married outside the church that it’s invalid, or telling people not to have sex before marriage regardless of their feelings, then Bob needs to accept that now, it’s his turn to trust the church over his own feelings.

Is he really Catholic, or only Catholic when it’s easy and doesn’t conflict with his own ideas?
Yes. Bob has to accept the decision made.
Tell that to Bob and the chronic alcoholism he now deals with to kill the pain from losing his wife 😦
Bob should have thought about his wife instead of having an affair. It isn’t her fault, or the CC’s that he is now an alcoholic.

Lou
 
Funny!

Even with this just being a totally-made up story, I’m concerned with the fact that our man Bob is both 1) an adulterer and 2) an alcoholic. I know that in polluted’s version of the story, he only started drinking after the divorce and it was only the one affair, but how likely is that?

My version is that Bob has been an adulterer and an alcoholic all along.

Fathers of nine don’t “suddenly” commit adultery with strange ladies.
I think that rather than wanting the church to hold people in bad marriages regardless of circumstances, it would be better to ask the church to help guide people in being good spouses. Bob wouldn’t have had to worry about this if he hasn’t betrayed his wife and all 9 of his kids just for sex.
 
Bob should have thought about his wife instead of having an affair. It isn’t her fault, or the CC’s that he is now an alcoholic.
Right.

And, come to think of it, it’s typical addict behavior to blame the addiction on others.
 
An annulment is not infallible, so if either party lies or omits something, or if whoever is processing the file misreads or misunderstands something, it’s not hard to imagine a validly married couple being given a certificate of nullity. According to the cannon law society of America, in 2012 there were 40 diocese in the US who granted 100% of annulments requested. I’ve heard a Priest, from the pulpit, say to just call the tribunals “annulment mills.”

My fictional heart breaks for poor fictional Ann, but nothing her husband does, besides die, can make him not her husband if he has ever been her husband.
 
40 diocese in the US who granted 100% of annulments requested.
Most dioceses in the US now have the parish level staff screen potential cases. Petitions are only sent in to the diocese if they have actual, solid grounds. Those that are weak, or nonexistent, never make it to the tribunal.

Not to mention loads of petitions are from non-Catholics marrying a Catholic or joining the Church, and for lack of form among Catholics.

That could certainly account for a perception of skewed results.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top