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Pius_XII_1
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Is anyone familiar with the hymn “Beautiful Holy Queen” ? I find the hymns of the Ruthenian Rite very beautiful and moving (my last two posts were concerning hymns.)
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MoreThan1Hat
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It’s one of my favorites too…our parish is under the patronage of the Holy Protection of the Theotokos so we sing a lot of Marian hymns. I really like this one, and so do my kids. My daughter and I can sing most of it without the book!
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Pius_XII_1
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Thank you for your response. But I do not know the song and was wondering if anyone knew of any links to listen to the hymn, or if anyone would be so kind as to post the music or notes for the hymn (Beautiful Holy Queen)
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Ungcsertez
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Unfortunately, the traditional Rusyn-Slavonic para-liturgical hymns, like " Radusja Carice", are no longer found in the newly-revised Divine Liturgy pewbook that was released last year by the “Sui Juris Metropolitan Byzantine Church of America” (formerly known as the Ruthenian Metropolia). It seems that the para-liturgical tradition is no longer wanted or appreciated and that is sad!
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ASimpleSinner
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Do they need to be?
I only ever knew them from being in the “Marian Hymn Bluebook”… Which we still have many copies of in every pew at my parish.
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Ungcsertez
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…but what parishes actually sing them anymore? What parishes actually sing the para-liturgical Eucharistic hymns? They were in the Levkulic pew books, why not in the new revised pew book? I’m sorry, but the hierarchs don’t want to honor this tradition anymore!
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MoreThan1Hat
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We sing them every Sunday in my parish, in fact we sang “Give Me Your Body, O Christ” and “We Thank You, God Most High” yesterday. And about half the hymns in the blue Marian hymnal as Father was doing Proskomedia.
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Ungcsertez
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Wow,! You sing para-liturgical hymns and have Proskomedia, no pre-cuts? What parish do you attend?
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MoreThan1Hat
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St. Mary’s Holy Protection in Morgantown, WV…we are also doing LPSG out of the “old” light-purple books. I may be wrong about the Proskomedia…I know he’s doing something important in the altar but of course can’t see…but it takes some minutes and involves prayer, and profound bows, and incense. Father says we can just bow profoundly during the Prayer of St. Ephrem but I think I will come out of the pew this week and prostrate anyway.
I think if they took away our blue hymnals and made us quit singing the para-liturgical hymns there would be a mass revolt and most people would go across town to the ROCOR parish which was started in the '30s by Greek Catholics who wanted a married priesthood available in the US.
Any time you are in the area please come worship with us (we even throw in some Church Slavonic here and there!)
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Woodstock
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Professor Thompson made it clear, on the bishop’s authority, that any parishes singing Eucharistic para-liturgical hymns are in violation of the promulgated revision. They may only be sung before or after the Liturgy and may not be included inside it. If sung before the Liturgy, they have to be followed with his setting as the last hymn before the Liturgy. They are especially forbidden during communion.
See here and here.
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MoreThan1Hat
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I’d be willing to bet that my parish isn’t the only parish that hasn’t stopped singing those “forbidden” hymns. And I’d also guess that if our cantor were to be forced to stop leading them, we would have silence during Communion (after singing the prescribed Communion verse for the Sunday that is in the RDL book) and probably also before and after the service. I don’t see the reasoning behind forbidding those devotional hymns…they didn’t just spring up overnight and I don’t think they’re going to go away like that either. IMHO.
:twocents:
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Woodstock
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The hierarchy do seem to be disconnected from their people, placing them in a position of denying their heritage or being disobedient to their superiors who are charged with protecting that heritage.
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Patchunky
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I find this extremely amusing because when Basil was in Uniontown to bless their new ikonostas the singing was SO BAD, he started the Svati Boze himself to cover up the cantor and then started the old Communion hymns to get the people sing instead of the horrible cantor they used…
No, it wasn’t JMT, just one of his groupies…
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ASimpleSinner
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There you go again.
Foisting motive on the hierarchs, convinced your worst case scenario is their motive. That seems to have become the hallmark of ByzCath, but I here I hope we can do better.
Have you toured the metropolia to find out who is using the music and if the RDL pewbooks have squashed the para-liturgical hymns all the way around?
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Aramis
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We do one para-liturgical for the incensation, one before the prescribed psalmody at communion, and one at the conclusion.
It’s noted in the cantor’s handbook that it is allowed. It’s not “normative” apparently, but is allowed. And we do it.
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Ungcsertez
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…well I know the Munhall Cathedral does not sing them!
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SVP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungcsertez:
…but what parishes actually sing them anymore? What parishes actually sing the para-liturgical Eucharistic hymns? They were in the Levkulic pew books, why not in the new revised pew book? I’m sorry, but the hierarchs don’t want to honor this tradition anymore!
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There has been no “ban” on singing para liturgical hymns by the bishops or anyone else. My parish still sings them and we haven’t been cast into the fires of hades for doing so. We do catch flak for singing “too much Slavonic” which does bother me.
Originally Posted by Ungcsertez:
…but what parishes actually sing them anymore? What parishes actually sing the para-liturgical Eucharistic hymns? They were in the Levkulic pew books, why not in the new revised pew book? I’m sorry, but the hierarchs don’t want to honor this tradition anymore!
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Sadly Byzcath is spiraling down a slippery slope of it’s own making. A number of people have been banned for having an intellectual disagreement with the administrator/owner who is also vocally against our Bishops and the RDL. Byzcath used to be an excellent resource, but is sadly falling into polemics and whining about what is wrong with the BCC and the RDL.
There has been no “ban” on singing para liturgical hymns by the bishops or anyone else. My parish still sings them and we haven’t been cast into the fires of hades for doing so. We do catch flak for singing “too much Slavonic” which does bother me.
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SVP
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Instead of telling us that they did NOT sing paraliturgical hymns, which seems to bring out a response, rather do tell us what they DID sing instead.…well I know the Munhall Cathedral does not sing them!
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Ungcsertez
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SVP,
What forums don’t have people who have been banned because they disagree with the Administrators/Moderators?
I think at best, there is a minimal toleration of the Ruthenian para-liturgical tradition in the “Sui Juris Metropolitan Byzantine Church of America”. But by not putting them in the RDL pewbook and for what has been printed on the MCI website, many parishes aren’t singing them. If you like, I will start a journal and list what parishes aren’t singing these para-liturgical hymns. I send you a report in the future.
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