meltzerboy
New member
I’m no expert on Islam, but I think the Hadith represent the traditions, which in Islam were established by Muhammad. Probably the Qur’an is the ultimate authority but perhaps not the sole authority.
Been a Muslim for 23 years, I would like to clear misconceptions you have
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Efnouti_Nai_Nan
Guest
There are different Islamic traditions, leading to different interpretations by interpreters like Ibn Abbas or El Tabari. You can think of these like how there are different traditions of interpreting the Bible in different major cities of early Christianity (Alexandria, Rome, Antioch), but they are more individual, by one author or another. But still they have authority just like how a Christian looks to the fathers, or a Jew looks to the Jewish interpreters. They don’t have the authority of the text (they’re not on the same level as the text itself), but they do have authority in the communities that follow this or that school. If there is dispute, the Muslim will look to see what they say when making his ruling.
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joe371
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joe371
Guest
When folks belonging to the Catholic Church, within these various cities, interpreted the bible differently, there was a way to definitively resolve these differences e.g. Arian vis-a-vis Trinity etc.
Neither Orthodox, Catholic nor Protestant Christians look to the Fathers when it comes to the final authority - right?
So, men like Ibn Abbas and El Tabari don’t have the authority of the text, but they do have authority, regarding the text, in the communities that follow this or that school?
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Efnouti_Nai_Nan
Guest
That is my understanding. I could be wrong, I am not a Muslim. But I know that the people who look for meaning of the Quran look to the various interpreters of the early times to answer questions about difficult verses. This is what I meant about Christians quoting the fathers or Jews their own interpreters. It is a similar thing with the Quran and the interpreters of it.
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Thorolfr
Guest
There certainly is disagreement among Muslims about the correct meaning of some verses in the Qur’an and as far as I know there is strictly speaking no way to determine which one is correct because there is no equivalent in Islam of the Magisterium and no pope. There is no central authority that can make an official decision about what is orthodox (i.e. “right belief”) and what is heterodox. Islam is really much closer in this regard to Protestant Christianity where there are different and sometimes conflicting understandings of the Bible than what it is to Catholicism. Perhaps the OP can elaborate.
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Thorolfr
Guest
A Muslim who wants an opinion on a matter can get a fatwa or legal opinion from a religious scholar. But if he/she doesn’t like that opinion, they are free to get another opinion from another scholar.
meltzerboy
New member
Islam also resembles Judaism in this regard.
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MartinJordan
Guest
Heard the same and it makes sense too, because they would NEED something other than the Quran to answer a hard question like…Ishmael or Isaac who was taken to the mountain. Which btw is a serious defect (IMO) Quran mentions “…your only son” and fails to mention the name. Sheesh.
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MartinJordan
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ptisme
Guest
Let me get this straight: The bible was hijacked and made to seem like we should love our neighbors as ourselves and forgive all our enemies?.. Seems to be a better concept than what is happening now in Syria… My guess is God wants what he created to live in harmony and not behead one another…
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Eric_Hilbert
Guest
If you have been following these rules, this post does not apply to you.
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dronald
Guest
Those early interpreters most often have very harsh interpretations.
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Elizium23
Guest
Robert Spencer’s JihadWatch provides an eye-opening, enlightening, and insightful guide to understanding the beliefs of Islam.
In a nutshell, to understand their beliefs, you must know certain key things, such as the relative age of Quranic surahs, and the authoritativeness of all the relevant Hadiths. You must know the principle of abrogation, by which earlier Quran verses were nullified by later ones. Spencer’s guide is worth reading in its entirety if you have any questions about the religion of Islam, why it should be of paramount interest to faithful Christians, and how to defend our own faith from attacks originating from Muslims.
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jakasaki
Guest
I’ve asked this question before and have yet received an answer from our muslim members.
It is claimed by Islam/Muslims that the Quran existed in heaven with Allah since the beginning of creation.
If that is the case, why would Allah need to abrogate any verses?
If Allah is all-knowing all-seeing, didn’t he see the future and not have to abrogate anything?
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Thorolfr
Guest
Not all Muslims believe in abrogation. Some try to reconcile what seem to be contradictory verses in the Qur’an. They believe that some verses might have been revealed for a specific historical time and place and are not timeless and eternal in their application.
Also, the Bible appears to have contradictions, too. For example:
Matthew 1:16: and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah
Luke 3:23: Jesus was about thirty years old when he began his work. He was the son (as was thought) of Joseph son of Heli
So who was the father of Joseph? Was it Jacob or was it Heli?
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Nektarios_Lady
Guest
Really glad you asked!
Because of Mosaic Law…Both!!!
One was the Legal father & the other the Biological father. You see the original husband of Joseph’s mother died before she conceived. Based on the Mosaic Law, after his death she was given in marriage to his brother (to produce a legal heir for his deceased brother).
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Thorolfr
Guest
Where is this explained in the Bible?
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prodromos
Guest
You also need to point out that Jacob and Heli were born to the same mother with different fathers, their mother remarrying after the death of her first husband
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Randy_Carson
Guest
In the genealogies of Matthew and Luke…and by reason.
The Genealogies of Jesus
straightforward.wikidot.com/matthew-1-1-16-bc
One of the most widely held theories suggests that Matthew’s account follows the lineage of Joseph, while Luke’s genealogy is that of Mary, the mother of Jesus. This interpretation would mean that Jacob was Joseph’s biological father, and Heli (Mary’s biological father) became Joseph’s surrogate father, thus making Joseph Heli’s heir through his marriage to Mary. If Heli had no sons, this would have been the normal custom.
Also, if Mary and Joseph lived under the same roof with Heli, his “son-in-law” would have been called “son” and considered a descendent. Although it would have been unusual to trace a genealogy from the maternal side, there was nothing usual about the virgin birth. Additionally, if Mary (Jesus’ blood relative) was indeed a direct descendant of David, this would make her son “the seed of David” in keeping with Messianic prophecies.(1)
(Solving: 2, 3, and 4)
According to one of the oldest theories, some scholars assign the differences in genealogies to the “Levirate marriage” tradition. This custom said that if a man died without bearing any sons, his brother could then marry his widow, and their sons would carry on the dead man’s name. For this theory to hold up, it would mean that Joseph, the father of Jesus, had both a legal father (Heli) and a biological father (Jacob), through a Levirate marriage.
The theory suggests that Joseph’s grandfathers (Matthan according to Matthew; Matthat according to Luke) were brothers, both married to the same woman, one after the other. This would make Matthan’s son (Jacob) Joseph’s biological father, and Matthat’s son (Heli) Joseph’s legal father. Matthew’s account would trace Jesus’ primary (biological) lineage, and Luke’s record would follow Jesus’ legal lineage.(2)
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