Behold, It Was Leah!

[simplynoone]

Now, you see what I meant about messages one may receive from God, do you? and how I could have asked that question?
Now, how did you come to reject the Gospel itself? Was it because of the guilt you felt you had to have just from the fact of being born? I suppose you would also reject the Psalm 51?

Or was it because of things some people told you where you may have felt some kind of deliverance from that deep impression of guilt? Or from something else?

*It had nothing to do with the guilt or the shame as the reason why ultimately I have rejected the New Testament. It has everything to do with the rejection of the Law. See, there is allegorical writing in the Tanakh as well as the literal… understanding comes through the Law of God… both the Natural Law and the Biblical Law. The statutes, the judgments, all of it is VERY important to me. Paul, no matter what excuses are made by Christians, DID throw that out of the NT, thus there is no way to decipher the writings. It is not based on anything but mythologies (save some of the teachings attributed to Jesus) and no grounding is to be found for the truth… thus why Christianity is a blind faith religion. The NT is altogether confusing (for the seeker of Truth anyway) and the more that I come to understanding, the more I see this was the intent.

We were told to observe the commands… As I have said, when one believes that God would bless a virgin birth, they have disregarded the command given to MALE and female to be fruitful and multiply. That is only one of the MANY commands and promises and declarations and judgments of God that have been violated in the NT. God’s ways have been disregarded in the NT… thus, the reason I reject it.

As for the guilt and shame, I found deliverance through the understanding given to me in the Word of God; though in all honesty, I was not seeking deliverance from the guilt and shame (rather understanding of it)… I had just accepted at one point that if it is true, the idea of eternal punishment… then if I ended up in it, I must deserve it and therefore, I would accept the judgment of God. However, that is not the judgment of God, but rather man’s idea of judgment. God’s judgments are righteous and pure. Through my acceptance of them, I continue to learn His ways so that I can walk in them.*

 

[Lapell]

Something bothers me a lot: that you experienced guilt just from having been born! To be born in itself never can be a sin, let this be clear! Even in the case that the mother would die during the delivery! It’s not the doing of the child him- or her-self!!! The sins have caused our Lord Jesus Christ to die on the Cross, it’s true. Because our redmption had to be obtained through a perfect sacrifice, which Jesus provided in full obedience to God His Father…willingly! Wil-ling-ly, O. K.? And if your heart somehow condemns you, know that God is greater than your heart, and He knows everything! And He WANTED to forgive us and keep loving us!!!

 

[Lapell]

Even in the event that you would have been quite mischievous or simply hyperactive in your youth to the extent that someone impatiently told you that your birth must have been cause in itself for Jesus to die, it was not the case, do you hear??

 

[Lapell]

Now, your “deliverance” as you call it was just partial, not complete, since it blotted in your mind any desire to have a thing to do with the “man” who would cause you (in your view, influenced by a particularly bad experience) such a constant guilt. So that no message from the NT could ever pop up in your mind because of that. Like I said, Jesus Himself had nothing to do with your guilt! Even though what happened did happen…

 

[Lapell]

Now, I do pray that you be fully liberated from not only the guilt, but also all the negative impression you received toward the person of Jesus the Christ and the Gospel and the New Testament in its entirety. And don’t worry! You thought you were doing the right thing. Jesus takes it into account, don’t you worry! And He is always ready to forgive whoever comes back to Him. Not because he’d want you so much to feel so bad about any thing but because He loves you so much, and so does God the Father…
Don’t let your impressions always rule you, for they at times can be very false, even though your emotions are very real! I know this from saint John of the Cross, a Carmelite priest… and from my own experience!

 

[Lapell]

I would recommend you a book written by saint John of the Cross, The Ascent of Mount Carmel. He speaks of illusions that can happen in spiritual manifestations, even in the “supernatural” ones. I am sure that this book can help you.

 

[Lapell]

We were told to observe the commands… As I have said, when one believes that God would bless a virgin birth, they have disregarded the command given to MALE and female to be fruitful and multiply. That is only one of the MANY commands and promises and declarations and judgments of God that have been violated in the NT. God’s ways have been disregarded in the NT… thus, the reason I reject it. I am afraid that you are unaware of certain things very important when it comes to interpreting the Scriptures: some knowledge of the development of the Biblical message. How certain ideas had to be developed and made more specific with time. I assure it is very, very important, for otherwise it WOULD seem as though the New Testament can’t be in continuation with the Old Testament (either the TaNaKH or the Septuagint which was put together, as I was surprised to learn just a few years ago, even BEFORE the TanaKH…)

 

[Lapell]

You may wish for an example… O.K., at one point, when someone sinned, four generations would pay for it, but then with the prophet Ezechiel, if one sinned, he will be the one held responsible for his sin and he will be the one who will perish. Even though whenever someone sins it does affect many people, not just the one who sins. Do you understand?

 

[Lapell]

Also in Ezechiel, there is the notion that if someone sins and then repent from his sins, he will not perish. (Already in the 2nd book of Samuel, the case of King David’s repentance from his sin shows this. He was punished, though, but it didn’t cause him to perish as a result.)

 

[simplynoone]

Something bothers me a lot: that you experienced guilt just from having been born! To be born in itself never can be a sin, let this be clear! Even in the case that the mother would die during the delivery! It’s not the doing of the child him- or her-self!!! The sins have caused our Lord Jesus Christ to die on the Cross, it’s true. Because our redmption had to be obtained through a perfect sacrifice, which Jesus provided in full obedience to God His Father…willingly! Wil-ling-ly, O. K.? And if your heart somehow condemns you, know that God is greater than your heart, and He knows everything! And He WANTED to forgive us and keep loving us!!!

I* am sorry that it bothers you a lot. We all do things that are against the will of God at some point in our lives. We did not come into the world with complete knowledge of right and wrong or that there would be consequences for going against the prick in our heart when no one was watching… that came from learning. Thus, hello, to believe christianity, I would have had to believe that my being born really was the curse. The allegory of Job touches on this as well. “CURSE THE DAY that I came from my mother’s womb!!!” So don’t tell me that I was thinking illogically when I was brought into Christianity. My being born was automatically a curse because I was bound to have to learn which means messing up.

Lapell, my sins did not cause Jesus to die on the cross. If they did, then you defeat your own doctrine by saying he did not go willingly. If he willingly went, then he went without conditions being placed on us. If my sins caused him to die, then it was not a willing sacrifice unless there are no conditions placed… such as I have to believe it happened or any of the other conditions.

It doesn’t make any sense Lapell and I can shoot all kinds of holes in this theory of yours.

• If Jesus WILLINGLY died to pay for the sins of mankind, then they are paid and everyone’s covered (if this were something that was actually acceptable to God… and it is not).
• If Jesus died and we have to accept it without having any evidences that it happened and that it would be approved of by God, then there IS NO choice there. Either accept or be punished. Then sins are no longer ACTUALLY sins… the ONLY sin now is to not believe in something that there are no evidences for. In other words, deny what I DO know God gave me, the ability to reason, and believe in something that is not based on the Word of God AND is actually almost identical to almost all the mythological godmen stories.

Are not God’s ways equal? Ezekiel 18:20-28 says they are… but Oh Israel… just could NOT believe His Word and they thought their ways were better than His ways. NO DIFFERENCE here. *

Even in the event that you would have been quite mischievous or simply hyperactive in your youth to the extent that someone impatiently told you that your birth must have been cause in itself for Jesus to die, it was not the case, do you hear??

* Got it! I know this Lapell. I do not regret being born anymore. I know that I alone am responsible for my actions and that Jesus did NOT die for my sins. I am thankful for this. He should not have had to and I would not ever have wanted him to do such. If anyone will die for them, it will be me… the one to have committed them. *

Now, your “deliverance” as you call it was just partial, not complete, since it blotted in your mind any desire to have a thing to do with the “man” who would cause you (in your view, influenced by a particularly bad experience) such a constant guilt. So that no message from the NT could ever pop up in your mind because of that. Like I said, Jesus Himself had nothing to do with your guilt! Even though what happened did happen…

I have no issues with Jesus. I did not know him. And I see that some of his teachings are enlightened views of Torah. I think now you are reading more into this than should be there. IF Jesus were alive today, I would have no issues whatsoever to accept him into my home as an honored guest… him AND his wife.

 

[simplynoone]

Now, I do pray that you be fully liberated from not only the guilt, but also all the negative impression you received toward the person of Jesus the Christ and the Gospel and the New Testament in its entirety. And don’t worry! You thought you were doing the right thing. Jesus takes it into account, don’t you worry! And He is always ready to forgive whoever comes back to Him. Not because he’d want you so much to feel so bad about any thing but because He loves you so much, and so does God the Father…
Don’t let your impressions always rule you, for they at times can be very false, even though your emotions are very real! I know this from saint John of the Cross, a Carmelite priest… and from my own experience!

I would recommend you a book written by saint John of the Cross, The Ascent of Mount Carmel. He speaks of illusions that can happen in spiritual manifestations, even in the “supernatural” ones. I am sure that this book can help you.

I am afraid that you are unaware of certain things very important when it comes to interpreting the Scriptures: some knowledge of the development of the Biblical message. How certain ideas had to be developed and made more specific with time. I assure it is very, very important, for otherwise it WOULD seem as though the New Testament can’t be in continuation with the Old Testament (either the TaNaKH or the Septuagint which was put together, as I was surprised to learn just a few years ago, even BEFORE the TanaKH…)

* I wonder if you really even read my posts. *

You may wish for an example… O.K., at one point, when someone sinned, four generations would pay for it, but then with the prophet Ezechiel, if one sinned, he will be the one held responsible for his sin and he will be the one who will perish. Even though whenever someone sins it does affect many people, not just the one who sins. Do you understand?

Ahem! you left off that if we consider and TURN from our sin to walk in the ways of God, then we will live (that is to be aware of God’s ways… it is our choice). READ ALL of it! Ezekiel 18:20-28… nothing about blood having to be shed to be accepted back into the presence of God.

 

[Lapell]

SimplyNoOne, it doesn’t defeat anything what I said. You simply don’t understand it. Our sins did cause Jesus to die for the sins of us us, and He did go willingly to die on the Cross. You simply don’t believe He could at all, but it doesn’t cause His sacrifice to have not happened at all. The blood of slained lambs on the doorposts must have meant nothing to some of the Israelites back in Moses’ time before the Flight from Egypt…

 

[Lapell]

* Got it! I know this Lapell. I do not regret being born anymore. I know that I alone am responsible for my actions and that Jesus did NOT die for my sins. I am thankful for this. He should not have had to and I would not ever have wanted him to do such. If anyone will die for them, it will be me… the one to have committed them. *

I am afraid you haven’t “got it”, simplynoone! Your havuing been born was not a sin, but Jesus did die for your sins, mine and everybody else. On our part, we need, so to speak, to have His blood cover our “doorposts” in order for our salvation to be effective. For us Catholics, there is the Sacrament of Confession, or of Penance, or of Reconciliation. It’s the same one sacrament that is called differently… I tell my sins to a priest, he hears them and in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, he forgives them. Like Jesus in the Gospel of John, chapter 8, to the aduterous woman:“I don’t condemn you… go, and sin no more.” And it’s actually Jesus Himself through the priest then.

 

[Lapell]

I don’t think you are acquainted with that sacrament, simplynoone. You might think it foolish, but it certainly works for those who sincerely repent from their sins and rely on God.

 

[Lapell]

* I wonder if you really even read my posts. *

Ahem! you left off that if we consider and TURN from our sin to walk in the ways of God, then we will live (that is to be aware of God’s ways… it is our choice). READ ALL of it! Ezekiel 18:20-28… nothing about blood having to be shed to be accepted back into the presence of God.

Well, the blood sacrifices of animals were not abolished then, were they? YOU are the one leaving out a few things quite important in Judaism then.
The Jews haven’t offered bloody sacrifices of animals since the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem… maybe you lost track of it because of that!

 

[Lapell]

Continuing with the development of the doctrine… in the TaNaKH, as you call it, there were supposed to be animal sacrifices offered for sins. It really had started on a regular basis after Israel had worshipped the Golden Calf! (Before that, there was the sacrifice of lambs, unblemished, one year-old, to protect the Jews against the angel of destruction taking away the lives of the first-borns of the Egyptians and of cattle animals… the 10th plague of Egypt.)
And when Jesus came, John the Baptist called him “the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world”. It’s as such that He sacrificed Himself willingly. And He is risen, so why should we lament on Him?

 

[Lapell]

I am afraid that you don’t understand even the basic things about God, about Jesus, about the Church and her doctrines that all come from the Word of God.

 

[simplynoone]

I am afraid you haven’t “got it”, simplynoone! Your havuing been born was not a sin, but Jesus did die for your sins, mine and everybody else. On our part, we need, so to speak, to have His blood cover our “doorposts” in order for our salvation to be effective. For us Catholics, there is the Sacrament of Confession, or of Penance, or of Reconciliation. It’s the same one sacrament that is called differently… I tell my sins to a priest, he hears them and in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, he forgives them. Like Jesus in the Gospel of John, chapter 8, to the aduterous woman:“I don’t condemn you… go, and sin no more.” And it’s actually Jesus Himself through the priest then.

*You are correct, Lapell. I do not understand how Jesus is compared to the sacrificial lambs of Exodus 12. It had nothing to do with atonement for sins. It was done to mark their doorposts as the children of Israel for the sake of their firstborn sons to be spared from the angel of death (BUT NOTHING TO DO WITH SINS). Each family was responsible for their own lamb… it was not one lamb being sacrificed for the community, but rather many lambs … which again, had nothing to do with atonement for sin. In fact, the view of Jesus that is held to by the church was much like the religions of the Egyptians at the time. Demigods…born of virgins, crucified, physically resurrected, etc etc.

The passover Lamb(s) were used to mark the children of Israel as SEPARATE from those who believed the Egyptian mythologies. shrugs

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (this is bogus and a sham. it is very much the same as the mythological views held to by the Egyptians, which by the way, Rome absorbed into its culture as well as the Greek culture).

I do not see the sense that God would save the Israelites from the illusions of Egypt that were oppressing them only to turn around and copy it… what?, to decide the mythologies WERE after all, the way to go? That is throwing out the gift we KNOW God gave us… the ability for rational thinking to rather go backward in time… true, I do not understand how so many accept the very thing that God saved the Israelites from.*

 

[simplynoone]

Well, the blood sacrifices of animals were not abolished then, were they? YOU are the one leaving out a few things quite important in Judaism then.
The Jews haven’t offered bloody sacrifices of animals since the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem… maybe you lost track of it because of that!

The sacrifices were symbolic… they did not ACTUALLY do anything. God can forgive without them. I do not have to do all those things that the Church says I do to consider, turn from my sins, and walk in the ways of God. That is the Church abusing power and Truth… that you have to go to a priest to be forgiven or have beads to say a prayer… the latter is superstitious; it is exactly the type of abuse and oppression that was taking place in Egypt.

 

[Lapell]

*You are correct, Lapell. I do not understand how Jesus is compared to the sacrificial lambs of Exodus 12. It had nothing to do with atonement for sins. (…)
The passover Lamb(s) were used to mark the children of Israel as SEPARATE from those who believed the Egyptian mythologies. *“To mark the children of Israel as “separate” from those who believed the Egyptian mythologies”… what for, if I may ask? Why slaying animals just to have Israel become “separate” from the Egyptians, and even from all peoples? Is that the only thing the Jews celebrate at Passover? That would seem then no more than a nationalistic feast to boost their pride and nothing more?