Being a lawyer- you have to lie?

[athair_siochain]

A lawyer makes money " getting the guilty off", if they use words and actions to ensure those who commit a crime are found innocent then they the lawyers are part of a big lie,Under the legal system, a person who kills a referee in front of 30.000 spectator witnesses is innocent till proven guilty.

A bank robber, a drug dealer, and fraudsters are all innocent till proven guilty, so the money they made from illegal activities is not tainted in the eyes of the law so it is used to pay the lawyer who defends them .

A stolen car has to be handed back to the person it was stolen from, the money pocketed by a lawyer acting on behalf of a client who is found guilty is not handed back, why?

 

[jilly4ski]

A bank robber, a drug dealer, and fraudsters are all innocent till proven guilty, so the money they made from illegal activities is not tainted in the eyes of the law so it is used to pay the lawyer who defends them .

A stolen car has to be handed back to the person it was stolen from, the money pocketed by a lawyer acting on behalf of a client who is found guilty is not handed back, why?

umm, what kind of working knowledge of the system do you have, because the money would be seized as part of the investigation and used as evidence and not used to pay the lawyer. A person who robs a bank cannot use that money to pay the lawyer, that money will be seized, used as evidence and then given back to the bank/treasury.

 

[Orleans_Attny]

A bank robber, a drug dealer, and fraudsters are all innocent till proven guilty, so the money they made from illegal activities is not tainted in the eyes of the law so it is used to pay the lawyer who defends them .

A stolen car has to be handed back to the person it was stolen from, the money pocketed by a lawyer acting on behalf of a client who is found guilty is not handed back, why?

So it seems that you would prefer a system where people are guilty until proven innocent? There have been systems of justice like that - I doubt you would really like to live under one.

You are simply incorrect about how lawyers are paid. And on the outside chance that you aren’t aware: Most criminals are indigent and represented by public defenders.

Pax,
OA

 

[Santi2]

A lawyer makes money " getting the guilty off", if they use words and actions to ensure those who commit a crime are found innocent then they the lawyers are part of a big lie.

Under the legal system, a person who kills a referee in front of 30.000 spectator witnesses is innocent till proven guilty.

The prosecution bears the burden of proof in criminal cases, not the defence. If they fail to obtain a conviction, then it would only mean that they have not presented proof beyond reasonable doubt. On that basis, the law operates on the principle “better to let the guilty free than to convict the innocent”.

 

[Santi2]

Well, I am planning on studying law and eventually becoming a lawyer. People have always told me lawyers need to lie constantly. Which makes me wonder (and I’m sorry if this makes me seems ignorant), would I be put in a position to have to lie all the time? And does this mean I should consider another career? I would rather work towards another career than have to ignore my moral beliefs.

Thanks and God bless.

Why would you choose another career if the legal profession is something that you are inclined towards? That lawyers need to lie constantly is nonsense. You will be taught legal methods and skills at law school. As a qualified lawyer, you will be able to discern from your initial interview with a prospective client whether your integrity as a lawyer would be compromised. Then, you make a decision as to whether you are the best person to represent the client or not.**

 

[athair_siochain]

umm, what kind of working knowledge of the system do you have, because the money would be seized as part of the investigation and used as evidence and not used to pay the lawyer. A person who robs a bank cannot use that money to pay the lawyer, that money will be seized, used as evidence and then given back to the bank/treasury.

I am not a lawyer, but I do know many victims of greedy Lawyers., two mechanics take a car engine apart in two hours , if they were lawyers they would take two years to put it back together,
I also found the majority of lawyers were landlords or moneylenders.
I did read a book by a lawyer, it was called “The Ragbag Profession” the author has done research on the legal system from the time of King Solomon who was said to have invented the legal system on military lines to deal with unruly slaves , the King also claimed God was on his side,

 

[athair_siochain]

I am not a lawyer, but I do know many victims of greedy Lawyers., two mechanics take a car engine apart in two hours , if they were lawyers they would take two years to put it back together,
I also found the majority of lawyers were landlords or moneylenders.
I did read a book by a lawyer, it was called “The Ragbag Profession” the author has done research on the legal system from the time of King Solomon who was said to have invented the legal system on military lines to deal with unruly slaves , the King also claimed God was on his side,

So it appears the System was started on a big lie

 

[Ridgerunner]

It may be of passing interest to note that the very first legal system in which it was absolutely required that the accused be provided with skilled representation was the Inquisition.

I am not one who buys into the “Black Legends” of English manufacture about the Inquisition. But I do think it’s wrong to assert that lawyers must surely be liars and crooks when the Church itself saw the merit in legal representation; so much so that it required it.

It might be added that the Inquisition’s safeguards against false testimony were even stricter than ours are today. And the exonerations were vastly more numerous as a percentage of the total number of accused.

 

[Santi2]

I am not a lawyer, but I do know many victims of greedy Lawyers., two mechanics take a car engine apart in two hours , if they were lawyers they would take two years to put it back together,
I also found the majority of lawyers were landlords or moneylenders.
I did read a book by a lawyer, it was called “The Ragbag Profession” the author has done research on the legal system from the time of King Solomon who was said to have invented the legal system on military lines to deal with unruly slaves , the King also claimed God was on his side,

There are also greedy and litigious clients.

There is nothing unlawful about lawyers owning property or engaging in financial matters provided their interests in those do not present any conflict with client matters and/or regulations and/or code of conduct laid down for members of the legal profession.

 

[RosaryFan]

Well, I am planning on studying law and eventually becoming a lawyer. People have always told me lawyers need to lie constantly. Which makes me wonder (and I’m sorry if this makes me seems ignorant), would I be put in a position to have to lie all the time? And does this mean I should consider another career? I would rather work towards another career than have to ignore my moral beliefs.

Thanks and God bless.

Please don’t choose another career! Heaven knows we need honest lawyers!! I worked many years for real estate lawyers. They were good, honest men. Just don’t become a personal injury lawyer (haha)

 

[athair_siochain]

The prosecution bears the burden of proof in criminal cases, not the defence. If they fail to obtain a conviction, then it would only mean that they have not presented proof beyond reasonable doubt. On that basis, the law operates on the principle “better to let the guilty free than to convict the innocent”.

How many guilty are set free,? How many innocent are convicted,?

The majority of the time , the legal system is dealing with people who have broken the law, The Legal System was created by King Solomon to ensure slaves could be convicted , without any blame falling his way

Judges and lawyers appointed by King Solomon were said to be acting on behalf of the people.

A lawyer learns how to twist words, pull the wool over peoples eyes, the better they are doing this, the more criminals employ their services,

just like the small print in a contract, small so you cant see the truth

 

[athair_siochain]

There are also greedy and litigious clients.

There is nothing unlawful about lawyers owning property or engaging in financial matters provided their interests in those do not present any conflict with client matters and/or regulations and/or code of conduct laid down for members of the legal profession.

So True? the reason for it being lawful ,
The vast majority of Lawyers Judges Politicians are Landlords or moneylenders,
they ensure the Laws they created - protect their gravy train,

Yes the law says it is OK. the law also says I have to wear a seatbelt when driving a car to protect me from injury, laws to protect you from Lawyers, dont protect you from their lies or blind greed.

 

[athair_siochain]

Both my dad and brother are lawyers. And they don’t lie.

You can present the truth from different points of view, but that’s not lying.

I mean, if a lawyer lies, especially in court, they can get in a bit of trouble. They are simply advocating for their clients - the trick is to not get any information that could sway the case against your client. So dont’ ever ask them if they “did it”. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and simply advocate for their best outcome. My dad always said if he thought or “knew” the client was guilty, he’d advise the client to plead guilty and then he’d argue for a more lenient sentence.

All professions have liars and cheats, but for some reason, people really don’t like lawyers.

Lawyers have learned how to lie . they never answer " yes or no"

they will say, “I cant ever remember of ever having said/done that” and they will tell their clients how to answer questions.

 

[TMC]

So True? the reason for it being lawful ,
The vast majority of Lawyers Judges Politicians are Landlords or moneylenders,
they ensure the Laws they created - protect their gravy train,

Yes the law says it is OK. the law also says I have to wear a seatbelt when driving a car to protect me from injury, laws to protect you from Lawyers, dont protect you from their lies or blind greed.

Lawyers have learned how to lie . they never answer " yes or no"

they will say, “I cant ever remember of ever having said/done that” and they will tell their clients how to answer questions.

Seriously, what is your problem with lawyers? I know quite a few lawyers and as far as I know none of them are landlords or money lenders. They often answer questions with “yes” or “no”. This continuing bashing of an entire group of people is uncalled for and uncharitable, to say the least.

 

[Orleans_Attny]

Seriously, what is your problem with lawyers? I know quite a few lawyers and as far as I know none of them are landlords or money lenders. They often answer questions with “yes” or “no”. This continuing bashing of an entire group of people is uncalled for and uncharitable, to say the least.

Please don’t worry about him. I expect that readers are giving his comments in this thread all the consideration they deserve.

Pax,
OA

 

[Cat_Herder]

A lawyer learns how to twist words, pull the wool over peoples eyes, the better they are doing this, the more criminals employ their services,

The prosecutors are also lawyers. So is the judge.

just like the small print in a contract, small so you cant see the truth

Contracts of adhesion (read “fine print”) are dumb but most are strictly regulated by state financial or insurance authorities.

 

[LilyM]

I am a lawyer and know plenty of lawyers, ranging from good to indifferent to bad, and from the chronic liars to those who lie sometimes, to those who are never anything but scrupulously honest.

I am also the daughter and sister of doctors, and know plenty of other doctors through them. Again, they range from good to indifferent to bad, and from the chronic liars to those who lie sometimes, to those who are never anything but scrupulously honest.

The proportions of chronic liars vs occasional liars vs honest injuns are roughly the same in both professions.

Saying lawyers have to lie is like saying lawyers have to practice in the Supreme Court of the United States. Sure, a lawyer can choose to practice in that particular court, but they can equally make a perfectly good career without ever setting foot anywhere near it.

 

[LilyM]

they will tell their clients how to answer questions.

Rarely in my experience.

See, the minute a lawyer starts trying to tell a client what to say - whether it approximates the truth or not - is usually the minute it really hits the fan.

People almost never speak convincingly when they use someone else’s words or thoughts, which is why politicians are usually so uninspiring these days - most of them have professional speechwriters. More than that, when under pressure (for example in a witness box or a stressful negotiation) your average joe usually trips up and either totally botches what they’ve been ‘coached’ to say or simply reverts to what they initially intended to say.

And then not only does the coaching get discovered, they tell all and sundry that their lawyer has coached them, which leads to mucho grande trouble for said lawyer. Meaning disciplinary proceedings and/or penalties up to and including disbarment.

 

[athair_siochain]

Seriously, what is your problem with lawyers? I know quite a few lawyers and as far as I know none of them are landlords or money lenders. They often answer questions with “yes” or “no”. This continuing bashing of an entire group of people is uncalled for and uncharitable, to say the least./QUO

Sure you will find a lawyer who is not a landlord or money lender, I said the majority are landlords and money lenders, most of those posting on this thread are lawyers, so I expect them to be happy with what they do.

I did suggest reading a book by Brett Dawson a former New Zealand lawyer, the book is called
“The Evil Deeds of the Ratbag Profession” it is an outstanding and uncompromising insiders evaluation of the Criminal Justice System, I have a copy . every page has detailed information on the justice system since the time of King Solomon,

 

[athair_siochain]

TMC;7138206:

Seriously, what is your problem with lawyers? I know quite a few lawyers and as far as I know none of them are landlords or money lenders. They often answer questions with “yes” or “no”. This continuing bashing of an entire group of people is uncalled for and uncharitable, to say the least.[/QUO

Sure you will find a lawyer who is not a landlord or money lender, I said the majority are landlords and money lenders, most of those posting on this thread are lawyers, so I expect them to be happy with what they do.

I did suggest reading a book by Brett Dawson a former New Zealand lawyer, the book is called
“The Evil Deeds of the Ratbag Profession” it is an outstanding and uncompromising insiders evaluation of the Criminal Justice System, I have a copy . every page has detailed information on the justice system since the time of King Solomon,

Check the book out on the Net, the revues are good,

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